JumboRider

Ok, I have straight platforms at the moment and have ridden with clips in the past.

1. Do clips or clipless make that much of a difference in riding for the 20 miler?

2. I hated clips because at stops I would have to 'turn' my off foots pedal to find the clip. At intersections that was scary. Will clipless resolve that problem?

3. If the sky is blue and the ground is wet what temperature is it in phoenix?

solveg

Explain that one better....

I use clips, and I found they made a big difference, but I think it was because it was what I had when I used to ride. I was much more relaxed and stopped clenching my toes once I put them on. However, the other day my foot came out of the clips, and they were on tight! So for the first time I began thinking of clipless. But in general, I'm happy with my clips. They have some clips now that don't use straps! That might be a good introduction.

My local LBS shop owner just went 145 miles on platforms with no clips. No bike shorts, either!

As I'm learning about this sport, I've decided that it is an inherently painful sport, and we spend a lot of time trying to find solutions and reduce the pain as much as possible. After we put on the right amount of miles and correct our bike and riding patterns, we focus the same energy into things like speed and performance, because we're conditioned to keep tweaking our rides! It's been said here a lot that simply putting in the saddle time will solve a lot of problems.

But really, I think we keep tweaking our bikes because we can't ride 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, so we do a lot of "thinking" about riding. Should I get clips or clipless? What kind of lights would be good for me? Is my saddle really optimal?

For some reason, analyzing this stuff is part of the fun, but when you read these boards, you start to think these things are essential! Really, it all goes back to the beginning... it's only essential if you're feeling some pain and need to solve a problem. Everything else is optional and secondary to just riding! You can ride great distances with very little equipment.

So why do you want toe-clips or clipless? Do you feel the need, is it being recommended by people, or do you feel like you should think about them because so many people have them? Clipless, to me, is a huge expense and should have a huge pay-off. People swear by it-- but in my mind, they may make the cycling easier, but I don't know if I want* easier. If I wanted easy riding, I'd only ride my road bike and my touring bike would be in the garage!

Sorry, I tend to get introspective over my morning coffee.

JumboRider

Well guys, I think in general, are gadget freaks. That is why they love playing with their bikes.

I am serious about ragbrai and think I will want to be clipped in for comfort, speed and control. At least that is what I understand I will gain. That is why I left platforms in the list, because clip/clipless may not be needed.

Because clips are top heavy the pedal rotates so that the toe clip is on the bottom of the pedal when the foot is out off the pedal. From a stop I have one foot on the ground and one food clipped ready for the down push to start the bike. After the down push the opposite crank comes up but the toe clip is inverted. I have to turn the pedal with my toes and then quickly insert my foot into the clip. I have far too often over turned the pedal or the pedal falls over before I clip in. At an intersection it can be dangerous to wobble along trying to clip in. Another problem is that if not clipped and the clip on the bottom of the peddle the clip rubs the ground on the down stroke. This rub on the ground acan be enough to unbalance my wee body.

solveg

Ah. I understand now. My clips must not be as large as yours, as they only barely touch the ground when I'm not clipped in. I often ride across intersections with them not clipped.

Maybe my old habits have snuck back, but find myself back in the clips without even knowing I was doing it. (That's usually a sign I have to tighten them a bit.)

For Ragbrai, I would sure want something on my feet. Forget my earlier thoughts... I was just kind of thinking about this stuff in general.

JumboRider

I didn't really make it clear.

solveg

No, you did. It was just too early in the morning and I was waxing philosophical.

Woodlark

I just started using clipless pedals (Forte' Carve, an SPD clone) they can be entered from either side so rotating them to clip in is not a problem. I have never used toe clips, but previously used platforms. I find that the clipless make me feel more efficient (whether I actually am or not is known only to the gods), and they definitely keep my feet from bouncing off the pedals when I hit a rough stretch of road. I am still terrified of forgetting to clip out when I come to a stop so I find myself concentrating and saying over and over in my head, "don't forget to clip out...don't forget to clip out"...ad infinitum.

markhr

Do clipless make a big difference? Yes, very much so. Get a good pair of comfortable shoes and some decent pedals with float and you'll never look back, especially in traffic. Once you're used to the clip in/clip out motion you'll find it both much quicker and much easier to do.



Are toeclips and straps a death trap? Well that depends. You can either tighten them up so you get better efficiency but you won't be able to get your foot out in a hurry (traffic). Leave them loose so you can stop in a hurry (why bother just ride platforms then). I've damaged one wrist and had the Lunate bone decalcify, abcess and had it removed thanks to clips. I've also had so many bad experiences and close calls that I will never use clips again ever.

Finally, for those of you who insist on clips then try powergrips instead. In my experience they work just as well but you can still get your feet out in a hurry. As an added bonus Powergrips usually fit on most platform pedals with straight sides.



Phoenix, AZ

KingTermite 

Sounds to me like your crank arms are too long (unlikely) or you just use really big clips. What style clips did you have?


IMO, YES, they make a big difference, even on a 20 miler. When I first started going clipless I was still doing 15-20 mile rides. I know what you mean about one not clipping in and then you feel a bit wobbly trying to get it clipped in, but if you work at it (just a little experience), you'll realize you aren't really that wobbly. I'm thinking you just had some really big clips....most Clydes I know use SPD. Maybe you should give those a try.

JumboRider

My toe clips were cheap and made of plastic. The toes were fairly large and I have a big foot. The cranks were 175 at the time if I recall.

Clips or clipless is a religious debate that I would much rather avoid. I know many would never leave their clips and others would never have clips. If I went with clips or clipless it would be due to function and performance. It sounds like I need to make that move. I see big pros to clipless and pros to clips when comparing which way to go. I think I will look at a clipless system with enough pedal to pedal without cleats on my shoes if I need to ride in street shoes.

Tom Stormcrowe

They make a 2 sided platform based on a mountain bike platform you might want to lok at. One side is a platform and the other is a clipless lock system.

(51)

I just use the platform pedals with the spikes on them. Good grip and no falls.

keithm0

That's exactly what I use -- the Shimano PD-M324. It rocks. During long rides I tend to get pain in my left foot, right where the cleat sits beneath my foot (long story). With the PD-M324s, I can unclip, flip the pedal over, and keep on riding.

Tom Stormcrowe

Do you get a decent amount of float? I'm thinking about going and trying clipless again. Right now, I'm leaning toward either Crank Brothers or Speedplay Frogs. Lots of lateral float in both.

keithm0

This is my first experience with clipless pedals, so I really don't know how much float is considered "decent", but there seems to be a lot -- so much, that I plan to either a) try to adjust them myself, or b) go to the bike shop and have them adjusted to reduce the float a bit. I've had these for a little over a year. The bike shop intentionally set them up with a lot of float, and I now think it's time to scale back a bit.

Tom Stormcrowe

Hmmm, cool! With my knees, I need the float.

ronjon10

I ride with cheapie SPDs set loose. That gives me lots of wiggle room, it's very easy to pop in and out of the latch, and I can walk in the shoes.

Some people may get hotspotting issues with spd's, if so, get the Specialized footbed inserts, it'll most likely solve that problem.

I feel much safer and more comfortable being clipped in than on flat pedals. The performance benefit of being able to pull a little on the upstroke is awesome, I really can't recommend clipless pedals enough. Plus it's better as you're giving your entire leg a workout.

markhr

Please explain why you feel the need to reduce the float?

Longfemur

1) Toe clips or "clipless pedals" make no difference to performance in any way. Either way your feet are held onto the pedal. The difference is more a matter of convenience. I've used both extensively, and if I'm going to use anything, it's going to be clipless, simply because it's so much more convenient to get into them than to frig around rotating the pedal to get into the toe clips. Plus, there are no straps to either tighten or leave loose but which then get in the way. With clipless, there's no fumbling. You just set down on them. I compare it to cross-country skiing. Try doing that with your boots strapped onto the skis rather than using bindings. It's kind of similar with cycling.

2) Toes clips do drag on the ground if you pedal on the bottom of the pedal, as if starting from a stop at an intersection. On road bikes, this is because the bottom bracket is quite a bit lower than than on a mountain bike or a hybrid (most of them, anyway). It has nothing to do with crank length, except that on the same bike, of course, a longer crankarm will drag a bit more. With clipless, you can pedal quickly on the bottom of the pedal if you have to, like from a standing start.

If riding with a lot of starts and stops, like when riding downtown, sometimes it's just more convenient to not use either toeclips or clipless. This is why where I live, I tend to prefer the Shimano pedals which are SPD on one side and regular pedal on the other.

One can certainly ride without any restraint, neither clips nor clipless. I'm not sure that it makes that much difference unless you're in competition with others or with yourself. If you use a very high saddle position, then I think it's too easy to slip off the pedal if not clipped in some way. I sometimes ride with just the regular pedal side of my Shimanos, and with the shoes I usually wear, they keep my feet on pretty well. It's nice sometimes to just get on the bike for a short ride with whatever clothes and shoes I happen to be wearing.

keithm0

Good question. I've been sitting here for 10 minutes trying to explain my motivation. Maybe my difficulty in answering is somehow "telling".

Anyway... It's not a mechanical or physiological issue. I guess I could say the amount of float was comforting when I was learning to ride clipless, but now it just feels "sloppy". Several times during the STP ride I thought to myself "I need to get this float reduced", even if I don't know exactly why.

So, this raises questions. How much float is enough? How much is too much?

markhr

Well, having trashed my knees once from no float/too high saddle I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing as too much float. Especially apparent when cycling behind someone - just watch the figure 8 their knee makes during the pedal stroke, not to mention the movement at heel level. Another reason I only use Time pedals .

Anyway, it's your call but do take care with your knees.

markhr

another reason might just be overly worn cleats - try fresh cleats and see if that helps?

keithm0

I hadn't thought of that, but it could be that simple. I'll give that a try before screwing around with float settings.

Thanks!

SaCaCh

You would think that there should be a way to weight the bottom of the clip pedal to always make the clip be on top, rather than spinning to the bottom.

Halthane

Tom I tried ridding a pair of the speedplays (light actions or zero's i can't remember) and they rocked as far as float went. When I first used them they were set with the float far too loose and my heel had a tendency to wobble around and made it hard to unclip, but after I dialed it down a bit they were quite wonderful. I really liked the non-recentering float, I think it was the best thing about them actually. I like my SPD-SLs but I think I will switch to the speedplays when I get my new bike.