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  1. #1
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    to eat or not to eat... how much... what kind

    i've recently gained a bunch of weight, i say from medication prescribed, but doc says NO WAY!! i think/know he's wrong!!!

    i went from 230 lbs with a 36" waist and a 42" chest... and was very active in martial arts... to 270 lb with a 46" waist and a 2xl shirt size... i tried everything short of pure starvation and it wouldn't come off... even walking a couple of miles a day and hard karate workouts...

    then i discovered the glucerna stuff and began to use it... turns out i'm now considered prediabetic, which i wasn't before...

    i lost 50 lbs in a year using the meal substitutes... but the last 20 or so just won't come off!!! and i look like i'm wearing a kids flotation innertube around me middle i think its funny, but i hate it... but i have dropped to a 38" waist and am into XL shirts now... but the roll tears me up it makes me laugh when i see it jiggle... don't know if it'll ever go away or not...

    i recently began riding... i started out with light rides and have increased the distance to between 15 and 20 miles a day over rolling terrain... uphill i drop down into the 5 or 6 mph and down hill up to 22 mph or so... but mainly on the flats i'm about 16 mph most of the time...

    i do this in an hour and some minutes... i watched my gps close last nite and my distance in an hour was 12.5 miles... which for me, i think is pretty fair considering the hills i have to climb and the turns i make at intersections which require me to stop completely and build back up...

    my problem? i want to lose weight, but i'm starving to death!!! i can't quit eating... i have managed to mostly restrict my eating to protein foods like peanuts, turkey, beef... and very few carbs or sweets... some veggies... but i'm voracious! i wake up in the middle of the night with my guts gnawing...

    should i continue to eat? starve? change what i eat? what? i realize i'm tearing down and rebuilding muscle.... and it takes protein to do that... my buddy says eat all the protein i want... i am lucky, my genes allow me to muscle up pretty quick... but thats a curse too... i get really too bulky...

    i realize that my body type will never allow me to be like the little fellers i see sprinting down the road with their rears higher than their heads, but i would like to be rid of the fat like i used to be....

    school begins in a few weeks and my goal is to get my distance to 25 miles so i can commute on decent weather days... the distance to school is only about 12 miles, so i figure if i can ride 25 easily, the 12 should be a snap... i'm a teacher and don't want the kids to laugh too hard

    what do you think?

  2. #2
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Don't worry if the kids laugh.....

    An innertube in the middle happens to the best of us and that last 20 is going to be a real bear! I'm currently stuck at +/- 215 and have flat out plateaued!
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  3. #3
    Senior Member lil brown bat's Avatar
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    Clearly you're not "starving to death" or you would be losing weight drastically; that's what "starving to death" means. What you've got is a problem with uncontrollable appetite. You say you're eating "protein foods", but how much, when, and in what forms?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Caincando1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad mike View Post
    my problem? i want to lose weight, but i'm starving to death!!! i can't quit eating... i have managed to mostly restrict my eating to protein foods like peanuts, turkey, beef... and very few carbs or sweets... some veggies... but i'm voracious! i wake up in the middle of the night with my guts gnawing...

    Sure they are full of proteins...and calories and fat. I've always had good results with the low fat, low calorie diets. If you are hungry fill up on low fat, low cal. stuff like a garden salads. You can deal a TON of veggies because they don't contain a lot of cals. and pretty much no fat. BUT watch the dressing, most are just pure FAT disguised as salad dressing.

    Start counting your calorie intake and your calories burn and see what the numbers say.
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  5. #5
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    Salad dressing mmmmmmmm the thing about salad dressing is you cannot live without it and you dont have to here is the SECRET TRICK TO SALAD DRESSING.



    have which ever salad dressing you want anything 100% pure lard salad dressing if you want but put it in a dish next to the salad before placing your fork in the salad dip the fork in the dressing quickly then place your salad on the fork. The last thing to enter your mouth and hit your taste buds will be the dressing on the fork and give you a satisfying sensation with hardly any calories. IT REALLY WORKS!!!!!

  6. #6
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Try a verysmall bedtime snack, a few crackers or something to buffer that nighttime munchie syndrome. 3 or 4 saltines aren't that many calories and will give you just a little shot of carbs to buffer the insulin your body is producing that may well be the culprit of the ravenous hunger that won't quit. This can happen with Type II diabetics and prediabetic individuals and is an indicator of a slow pancreatic response function and slowed turn off of insulin production. You fluctuate between mild hyperglycemia and hypoglycemia if this is what is happening.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


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    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  7. #7
    Senior Member Caincando1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shubox View Post
    have which ever salad dressing you want anything 100% pure lard salad dressing if you want but put it in a dish next to the salad before placing your fork in the salad dip the fork in the dressing quickly then place your salad on the fork. The last thing to enter your mouth and hit your taste buds will be the dressing on the fork and give you a satisfying sensation with hardly any calories. IT REALLY WORKS!!!!!
    Very true. You use a lot less dressing this way.

    Another trick I do, seen as how I LOVE ranch and ranch is pure lard. I get fat free ranch which really doesn't taste all that well. Then I get the dry mix ranch packet and mix a bunch into the fat free ranch to zing up the flavor. It does add a few more calories, but not much.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caincando1 View Post
    Another trick I do, seen as how I LOVE ranch and ranch is pure lard.
    Try Making your own low-fat ranch. Will taste much better.

    1 cup low fat sour cream
    1 cup low fat cultured buttermilk
    1 Tbsp Red Wine or apple cider vinegar
    1 1/2 Tsp onion powder
    2 Cloves garlic chopped to paste
    2 tbsp chopped chives
    1 Tbsp Chopped parsley
    1 Tbsp Coarse black pepper
    2 tsp to 2 tbsp salt (to taste)

    Combine all but the salt, add salt to taste (a small quantity 1/2 tsp of table sugar can also dramatically improve the flavor depending on the buttermilk). Refrigerate overnight for flavors to blend. Will last about 10 days or so.

    Not perfectly fat free but it will be pretty low and much better flavored. I find I actually eat fewer calories using full fat or homemade dressings than the low fat and fat free ones because they taste so much better/more intense.

  9. #9
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    SparkPeople.com has some good articles on 'Plateau Busting' that are reasonable and make sense.

    http://www.sparkpeople.com/resource/nutrition.asp << search for 'plateau'. they have helped me time and time again.

  10. #10
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    Something I had done recently has really helped me. I found a local clinic to measure my resting metabolic rate to give an indication of my calorie burn just to exist. I've used that to determine how much I should be eating and it has worked quite well so far. I'm going to get this repeated in the future because as I lose weight (yet again) my resting metabolic rate should go down. The thing I really like about knowing this number is that I know that at times I can approach this number and know that I am not going to add weight. I travel quite a bit with my job and it can be very difficult eat well but now at least I have a target to stay under. Also surprisingly it was much higher than I thought it would be so that makes it much easier to eat right rather than try to diet.

    Shog

    PS - Meds can really mess with you and make you extra hungry. I was stuck on some medication that made my hunger go through the roof. I found that by adding some extra protein in my diet it at least slowed the gain. Ultimately most of are ruled by the laws of thermodynamic what we taken we have to use or store as fat.
    Last edited by shog; 07-27-07 at 04:48 PM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Caincando1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halthane View Post
    Try Making your own low-fat ranch. Will taste much better.

    1 cup low fat sour cream
    1 cup low fat cultured buttermilk
    1 Tbsp Red Wine or apple cider vinegar
    1 1/2 Tsp onion powder
    2 Cloves garlic chopped to paste
    2 tbsp chopped chives
    1 Tbsp Chopped parsley
    1 Tbsp Coarse black pepper
    2 tsp to 2 tbsp salt (to taste)

    Combine all but the salt, add salt to taste (a small quantity 1/2 tsp of table sugar can also dramatically improve the flavor depending on the buttermilk). Refrigerate overnight for flavors to blend. Will last about 10 days or so.

    Not perfectly fat free but it will be pretty low and much better flavored. I find I actually eat fewer calories using full fat or homemade dressings than the low fat and fat free ones because they taste so much better/more intense.
    WAY COOL! Thank you so much! I even searched on the net before giving up and going the store bought way. This website rocks!
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  12. #12
    On my TARDIScycle! KingTermite's Avatar
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    Read "Eat To Live" by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. It will change the way you think about what food is healthy and what food isn't (and it backs it all up with why). It changed my entire outlook on eating and health.

    http://www.drfuhrman.com/

    edit:

    P.S. It's not a "diet"...its just about eating right - period.
    Last edited by KingTermite; 07-27-07 at 05:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by coffeecake View Post
    - it's pretty well established that Hitler was an *******.

  13. #13
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    You might want to add beans to your diet - any kind. They add healthy fiber and protein, plus they fill you up. They are considered to be one of the low glycemic foods. Sweet potato, old fashioned oats, 100% whole wheat bread or rolls, are also healthy fill up foods when you feel starved. Just adding a bran fiber cereal to your breakfast might help too. Lots of fruits and vegetables are really good for you because of vitamins, minerals, fiber and such.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caincando1 View Post
    Sure they are full of proteins...and calories and fat. I've always had good results with the low fat, low calorie diets. If you are hungry fill up on low fat, low cal. stuff like a garden salads. You can deal a TON of veggies because they don't contain a lot of cals. and pretty much no fat. BUT watch the dressing, most are just pure FAT disguised as salad dressing.

    Start counting your calorie intake and your calories burn and see what the numbers say.
    Raw veggies are the best kind, because they are often revenue er calorie neutral, you burn as many calories digesting them, as you get from them. A typical salad dressing is 8/16s fat, and 7/16ths vinegar, and the rest is SUGAR and chemicals. You don't need a lot of dressing though, just a taste. If you eat out, and order salad, order the dressing on the side, too many restaurants seem to use more dressing then salad.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caincando1 View Post
    WAY COOL! Thank you so much! I even searched on the net before giving up and going the store bought way. This website rocks!
    Actually took me a little time to come up with that one... I normally make it in a much larger, slightly creamier version, 1/2 gallon butter milk, 2 1/2 lbs sour cream, 1 lb mayo.... serves about 100 as a salad dressing, I add vegetables, chicken and pasta and use it as an entre sized pasta salad for about 30.

    that recipe is very very flexible, it's basically a "base" recipe. If you want chipotle/mexican/southwest ranch, add some powdered dry chipotle, ground cumin, and hot sauce. If you want Parmesan Peppercorn ranch, grate up some parm, and add more coarse black pepper. You want to go indian, boost the buttermilk a bit, toast some curry, cummin and coriander, and combine (great on grilled chicken). Blend in some mayo to give it some more body and it will make amazing pasta salad... The sky is the limit.

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    "Clearly you're not "starving to death" or you would be losing weight drastically; that's what "starving to death" means. What you've got is a problem with uncontrollable appetite. You say you're eating "protein foods", but how much, when, and in what forms?"

    please don't be so "literal"... i feel that you understood very plainly that i was using the term "starving to death" as a figure of speech....

    but in case you didn't, i was....

    so many thanks for your help....
    Last edited by mad mike; 07-29-07 at 11:50 AM.

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    i am receiving contrasting information from you and my martial arts instructor...

    my martial arts instructor is recommending that i eat good protein... in his opinion, i need the protein to build the muscle that will eventually raise my metabolism and rid my body of the fat i want to be rid of...

    that by eating as some of you suggest, i'll not have energy to ride the way i need to... low fat, veggies, and salad dressing will not support a 20 plus mile ride a day... which by the way, i finally did this morning after a large plate of baked chicken, turkey, and steak at a local yesterday at noon...

    i had done an hour on the elliptical walker the night before since it was raining here... legs felt lousy yesterday morning... no bounce at all until i ate... but i couldn't get back to the ride cuz of obligateions...

    soooo.... i'll letcha know how it goes...

    thanks so much for your help....

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    to the others, the book by dr furhman looks really intersting... i'll investigate that... i agree with the beans... i've been the beans and rice/steamed veggies route before and lost weight... and i agree, my metabolism is slowing as i age... thats why i need to rebuild my muscle...

    each of our bodies differ... mine is metabolic syndrome... pre-diabetic... etc... sorry, carbs are not good for me... i've tried regular dieting... i can look at carbs and it turns to fat...

    i tried the blood type diet and was successful for a while... i think i'm going back to that...

    seey'all....

  19. #19
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad mike View Post
    i am receiving contrasting information from you and my martial arts instructor...

    my martial arts instructor is recommending that i eat good protein... in his opinion, i need the protein to build the muscle that will eventually raise my metabolism and rid my body of the fat i want to be rid of...

    that by eating as some of you suggest, i'll not have energy to ride the way i need to... low fat, veggies, and salad dressing will not support a 20 plus mile ride a day... which by the way, i finally did this morning after a large plate of baked chicken, turkey, and steak at a local yesterday at noon...

    i had done an hour on the elliptical walker the night before since it was raining here... legs felt lousy yesterday morning... no bounce at all until i ate... but i couldn't get back to the ride cuz of obligateions...

    soooo.... i'll letcha know how it goes...

    thanks so much for your help....
    Just different approaches, Mike.

    From the cyclists POV, it's to lose weight without losing, but not gaining a huge amount of muscle mass. Look at the average cyclists build, as far as upper body. Weight is drag going up a hill and what muscle groups we tend to build up are the Quads, calves and adductor muscles and have the biceps of an anorexic 12 year old at the highest level of cycling competition.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  20. #20
    Senior Member BeckyW's Avatar
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    Mike, I couldn't do the low fat/high carb diet either, and am (was? blood sugars normal for a while now ) pre-diabetic as well. Do what works for you, that lets you keep your calorie level low enough to lose weight, but still feel good. When I started riding, that diet for me was 25% protein / 25% carbs / 50% fat (try to keep it mostly unsaturated fat - lots of nuts and olive oil!). The more exercise I do, the more I'm gravitating toward a more typical diet, but it's still lower than average on carbs - now normally 20-25% protein, 35-45% carbs, 35-40% fat.

    It's still controversial, but FWIW, when they found I was pre-diabetic, my doctor did say that a low-carb diet would be appropriate for me.

    Low-fat, low-carb.. they're both reduced-calorie diets. People, myself included, tend to get really passionate about what works for them, because they want to see others succeed and also reinforce their own success. But the bottom line is that you need to find a way of eating that works for you and helps you lose weight.
    "You must do the thing you think you cannot do." - Eleanor Roosevelt

  21. #21
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    i forgot to say that my regular doctor is a fairly highly ranked black belt kenpo practicioner... he also supports the diet i'm on, for me... that doesn't mean its right for everyone...

    tom- you are correct... its different approach...

    i'm not a cyclist, i'm using cycling to lose weight, build stamina and muscle... martial artists don't like to bulk up either, flexibility and speed is more important... but we do tend to carry more muscle/weight than cyclists... stretching before and after a ride will build strength without so much of the bulk, and i'm trying mightily to do that...

    my instructor looks like a normal 40 year old guy... and so does my doctor, but if you happen to bump into them, you'll find them hard as a concrete wall... unbelievable... heehee... right now, i'm like the pillsbury doughboy around the middle but that'll be gone shortly, i hope...

    so becky, are you familiar with the syndrome X? metabolic syndrome? i'm convinced that's what i am dealing with... i've always been active... yet never have been able to lose weight the normal way...

    i went to a world famous $1200 an hour doctor/nutrition expert/dietition/author.... (not the kenpo guy) 3 times last summer... i had him examine the diet i was on and he only added another 10 grams of protein... i lost 50 some lbs... then, when i hit the plateau that i've been on for several months, i decided i had to do something to fire up my metabolism... and when i did... i found my self with such a ravenous appetite... seems i couldn't get satisfied eating... so i started searching for answers... i knew sugars/simple carbs weren't the answer... so until i could find out, i stayed with the proteins...

    i've come to the conclusion as others have, that, whether we like it or not... the KEY is exercise... a calorie is a calorie, no matter what its made of... and until you take in less than you use, you won't lose weight... but you gotta build the fire within... to burn these buggers... and you gotta eat to have the energy to do the exercise... and because all of our chemistries are different... we have to find our own way in this mess!!! i think i've found mine... at least for now...

    bye and thanks!

  22. #22
    Senior Member BeckyW's Avatar
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    I've read about Syndrome X; not sure if it's what I've got, because I only had 2 of the three pieces - my cholesterol levels have always been below average/excellent. I was fairly sedentary until I started walking, then cycling, this spring. Finding an exercise I enjoy has made a huge difference in my life, and makes it much easier to eat healthfully and not binge or pig out on fast food.

    It's frustrating sometimes that the pounds aren't melting off at the rate they seem to for some people, but I am averaging 1-2 lbs/week. It's tempting to force myself to eat less to lose more/faster, but you're right - gotta feed the furnace to have fuel for exercise.
    "You must do the thing you think you cannot do." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    you might read up on it... my old doctors didn't know anything about it, the youngsters do... in fact, the person that decided it might be was what is called a nurse practitioner or a doctor assistant or something, right out of school... she's the one that sent me to Dr. Diet...

    do you get hungry when you ride? after about an hour this morning... and i noticed it when i rode friday afternoon, at about that interval, i feel hunger... i imagine its probably that i've used up all the sugar available and am beginning to burn fat... but then i've read where thirst many times is misinterpreted as hunger... i do need some waterbottles, but just another thing to carry...

    i have had episodes of what my doctor called spontaneous hypoglycemia... i think thats what you guys are calling the bonk...

    i don't want that to happen while riding... i'm like a drunk when it happens... i can't think, i can't walk... sometimes my vision is wierd... i've yet to black out, but i know those who have...

    i read about the gels, bars, etc... sugar is out!!! i've been carrying peanuts...

  24. #24
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    You are describing the "Bonk". I don't use Sucrose, instead I'll use a combination of Maltodextrin, Galactose and/ or Glucose for the bonk, and just enough to bring up my blood sugars to an acceptible level. The brain can ONLY run on Glucose, consequently, when you've burned all your available Glucose/Glycogen reserves, your higher cognitive functions start shutting down until your body can break down some fats and proteins to create free glucose and Glycogen stored again. A way around this is to use specific complex sugars like Malto. It burns like Glucose, but doesn't stimulate the massive insulin spike, because it processes through the liver more or less directly into Glycogen, which the liver breaks down into free glucose as it needs it.

    Your muscles and liver only store enough Glycogen for a few hrs of intense effort. In an endurance ride, you need to supplement it somehow. Protein and fat metabolism will provide this, but has drawbacks in that you have to nearly completely exhaust your Gly supply for the switch from the Kreb Cycle to the protein/fat anaerobic cycle.

    If you take in just enough Glucose or malto to offset the cognitive issues, you can balance your body in the anaerobic cycle, burning fats and protein. In this process though you also need to feed your body a lot of protein to prevent muscle tissue cannibalization. You need a minimum of 1.5 grams protein/KG of body mass intake, on a descending scale relative to Body mass down to the bare minimum of 65 grams protein a day for prevention of protein shortages in the body.

    This is the MINIMUM. More is better, but only to a point. I'd suggest not exceeding 2.5 grams/KG body mass.On this nutritional plan, hydration is critical though to prevent kidney damage from the protein fractions, lactic acid and uric acid being flushed out of the body. You can also feel pretty rough in this metabolism, due to the intentionally low Gly/Glu levels you are maintaining. It's called Ketosis, by the way. You can tell if you are ketonic, by the way, if the urine is dark and you are hydrating correctly.
    Quote Originally Posted by mad mike View Post
    you might read up on it... my old doctors didn't know anything about it, the youngsters do... in fact, the person that decided it might be was what is called a nurse practitioner or a doctor assistant or something, right out of school... she's the one that sent me to Dr. Diet...

    do you get hungry when you ride? after about an hour this morning... and i noticed it when i rode friday afternoon, at about that interval, i feel hunger... i imagine its probably that i've used up all the sugar available and am beginning to burn fat... but then i've read where thirst many times is misinterpreted as hunger... i do need some waterbottles, but just another thing to carry...

    i have had episodes of what my doctor called spontaneous hypoglycemia... i think thats what you guys are calling the bonk...

    i don't want that to happen while riding... i'm like a drunk when it happens... i can't think, i can't walk... sometimes my vision is wierd... i've yet to black out, but i know those who have...

    i read about the gels, bars, etc... sugar is out!!! i've been carrying peanuts...
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  25. #25
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    TOM.... what an amazing story your bio is!!! thats a championship story for sure!!!

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