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Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) Looking to lose that spare tire? Ideal weight 200+? Frustrated being a large cyclist in a sport geared for the ultra-light? Learn about the bikes and parts that can take the abuse of a heavier cyclist, how to keep your body going while losing the weight, and get support from others who've been successful.

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Old 08-06-07, 07:13 PM   #1
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Just some thoughts...

I was thinking about Tom's Paradigm shift thingie on my ride tonight.

When I started, I noticed every incline and every slope. Tonight, I stayed in my middle ring the whole ride, I think* for the first time.

I was riding my fast bike, and this makes a big* difference, and on the flats I regularly did 17 mph for long stretches. To be honest, I thought everyone on BF was exaggerating about how fast they went, how far they went, how little they got a used bike for and how much they sold it for. But no, apparently it's really possible. I can see it in the future.

I used to stop and take a breather when I got tired, but now I just slow down to 10-12 mph, and not for long. I still coast down hills, though.

I used to make biking a priority responsibility for the day. Today, I was working since dawn and tired. I had read that it was best to hydrate well the night before a ride, and I was hoping to do my "big ride" today. I drank so much I was up going to the bathroom all night, so I was tired. At the end of the day, I chose a bike ride over TV, knowing how good a ride would feel. A hard, fast ride. Who would ever think I would look forward to that*???

My feet are weird. For some reason, they start to burn and I have to lift and wiggle my toes. I try to point them up, because I find when I make my feet "light", for some reason I start to go faster and have to gear down! So, when going up a hill, instead of putting more pressure on the pedals, I actually make my feet lighter*, and suddenly I'm going faster! Why is this?

I also achieved my goal of going 50 feet no-hands. In fact, I went a couple hundred feet. And I was pedaling, not coasting.

I love both of my bikes, and they're completely different. If only I could find a bike that was a mix of them, I would be in heaven. The atlantis is steel, stable, and comfy, and actually sounds like a car to me. It has racks, and fenders, and a big hub-generated light, and I barely feel the road bumps. I can go off road with it on deep gravel. It weights about 35-40 lbs, packed for the road. Tire pressure is 80, and like riding a caddy.

The Klein is aluminum, fast, responsive, and fun. I can't even carry a raincoat on it. The chain slips off sometimes. It has brifters, which are great when they're quiet. The aluminum tubes are tapered on the inside* for lightness and strength. It was a serious road bike in it's time at 21 lbs. Tire pressure is 120, and like riding an MG midget.

My Klein was a Craig's list find, and it's a bit uncomfortable because of the tires and aluminum. I can feel it in my shoulders and wrists if I go over 15 miles. But I'm always in the mood to ride it.

The Atlantis leaves me unscathed, and I could probably sit on it for an entire day. I can barely lift it. It's really slow, and it's an effort to maintain 14 mph on it. But who's in a hurry?

Unfortunately, I only have one bike with me at a time. I'm going to have to choose a favorite soon, and bring it to KS with me. Any advice?

Oh, and once you start building leg muscles and can go in lower gears without feeling it in your knees, you end up doing more miles in the time you usually have to ride in. But you're still exerting yourself to the same extent for the same time. So I don't think I'm actually getting a better workout on my rides. In fact, I'll have to alter my usual route because it's only taking me 45 minutes instead of an hour.... so those of you who are just starting and riding for an hour, you're probably getting as much cardio as one of the old-timers going an hour. Or not... these are just thoughts after a nice ride.
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Old 08-06-07, 07:23 PM   #2
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Unfortunately, I only have one bike with me at a time. I'm going to have to choose a favorite soon, and bring it to KS with me. Any advice?
Which one do you "want" to bring and which one are you trying to "rationalize" bringing?
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Old 08-06-07, 07:27 PM   #3
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I was thinking about Tom's Paradigm shift thingie on my ride tonight.
Gonna be honest I was just entering the work/young adult world at the end of the nineties when "paradigm" shifting was the big buzzword, and I regularly wanted to vomit. I still do many times when it comes up. But Tom's idea's... not bad my man, not bad.

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I used to make biking a priority responsibility for the day. Today, I was working since dawn and tired. I had read that it was best to hydrate well the night before a ride, and I was hoping to do my "big ride" today. I drank so much I was up going to the bathroom all night, so I was tired. At the end of the day, I chose a bike ride over TV, knowing how good a ride would feel. A hard, fast ride. Who would ever think I would look forward to that*???
Today is my day off from exercise, I know that I need it. If I don't take it by day 12 or 13 I have to take several days off. But knowing that I need it I'm going stir crazy in my apartment.

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My feet are weird. For some reason, they start to burn and I have to lift and wiggle my toes. I try to point them up, because I find when I make my feet "light", for some reason I start to go faster and have to gear down! So, when going up a hill, instead of putting more pressure on the pedals, I actually make my feet lighter*, and suddenly I'm going faster! Why is this?
That doesn't sound that weird, sounds pretty normal. You're riding with better form in a sense, or working on it in a way when you "make your feet light", and using a greater part of the muscles in you leg, especially in the hamstrings. The "shoe top drill" of trying to ride without touching the bottom of the shoe is a pretty good one for eliminating dead spots at the top of the pedal stroke, and improving cadence.

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I also achieved my goal of going 50 feet no-hands. In fact, I went a couple hundred feet. And I was pedaling, not coasting.
I'm Jealous

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Unfortunately, I only have one bike with me at a time. I'm going to have to choose a favorite soon, and bring it to KS with me. Any advice?
In conway springs... you could use them both...

Lots of gravel which the Atlantis would like. And long flat roads to rip down on the Klein.

If your up near me in the flint hills, bring the Atlantis, (assuming its stock) you'll probably appreciate the lower gearing.
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Old 08-06-07, 07:41 PM   #4
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Which one do you "want" to bring and which one are you trying to "rationalize" bringing?
You sound like Becky! I'm not trying to rationalize! I want them both. Sometimes a decision is just a decision.


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In conway springs... you could use them both...

Lots of gravel which the Atlantis would like. And long flat roads to rip down on the Klein.

If your up near me in the flint hills, bring the Atlantis, (assuming its stock) you'll probably appreciate the lower gearing.
Exactly*! So cool you know exactly what I'm wondering about. There's a lot of rough dirt and gravel, especially if I avoid the highways. If I ride* the highways, then it would be the Klein. But I don't know whether I'm afraid or not yet.

But there's also distance and wind to be considered. I'd like to ride to Wichita or Wellington, and that's a 50 mile ride on the highway. If I get groceries and stuff, I'll need the Atlantis. If there's wind (and there will be BIG wind, count on it), I don't know which bike does better. My guess is the Atlantis.

I don't even know if the Klein could handle all the gravel. However, the Atlantis makes me tired! 20 miles on the Atlantis and I'm tired*, on the Klein I'm just jazzed up.
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Old 08-06-07, 07:57 PM   #5
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My advice is to sell that Klein ASAP and pick up something fast and comfy like a steel Bianchi, Jamis or even a Lemond. I rode an aluminum road bike for many years and it was no fun.

You might be able to find an '06 Lemond Versailles (steel/cf frame) for less than a $1000. It'll probably come in at 21 lbs, but be much comfier. I'd call Scheel's down in Eden Prairie to see what they have left. Make sure you ask them to check at their other locations. Just don't buy from Penn. They tend to jack up the MSRP and then offer a big discount that is not really a discount. Jamis and Bianchi both offer a larger range of steel bikes but I don't know who I would buy from in the Twin Cities.
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Old 08-06-07, 08:02 PM   #6
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Exactly*! So cool you know exactly what I'm wondering about.
I have good friends in Argonia and Harper, so that's how I know the area. Believe me we are feeling the wind in manhattan right now. If you go over to see becky you'd want the atlantis as well, its pert' hilly 'round there.
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Old 08-06-07, 08:07 PM   #7
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I think you need another bike. No joke. One that you like every single thing about and that has far fewer compromises between the comfort and speed you want on and for longer and longer rides.
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Old 08-06-07, 08:13 PM   #8
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Gonna be honest I was just entering the work/young adult world at the end of the nineties when "paradigm" shifting was the big buzzword, and I regularly wanted to vomit. I still do many times when it comes up.
Thomas Kuhn coined the phrase paradigm shift to challenge the widely held notion that the growth of scientific knowledge is rationally continuous, linear and cumulative. Instead he tried to show that when a scientific revolution occurs we are really "shifting" between two paradigms that are irreconcilable. Scientific revolutions, he concluded, are in some important sense irrational.

That his work has been co-opted and converted into business speak makes me want to vomit too.
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Old 08-06-07, 08:14 PM   #9
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A new bike! Hmmmmmmm. I'm not sure I like compact geometry, though.

I don't really understand why modern bikes are much better, though. I mean, people rode many, many miles on 1980's steel.

Let me get my SR up and running first. It's a lightweight Japanese sports-tourer from 1981 with a nice range of gears and Shimano 600 Arabesque grupo. I finished tuning it up the night the bridge fell, and only have to do some more lubing, then I'll bring it up north and see how it stands up.

But, I like* the Klein. It's very fun, and it has a triple crank!
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Old 08-06-07, 08:15 PM   #10
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Thomas Kuhn coined the phrase paradigm shift to challenge the widely held notion that the growth of scientific knowledge is rationally continuous, linear and cumulative. Instead he tried to show that when a scientific revolution occurs we are really "shifting" between two paradigms that are irreconcilable. Scientific revolutions, he concluded, are in some important sense irrational.

That his work has been co-opted and converted into business speak makes me want to vomit too.
Whereas, when I use it, it is to describe the shift from one view to another that was considered impossible in the prior view. New mental paradigm.
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Old 08-06-07, 08:32 PM   #11
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Call it what you like so long as you do it, and I'll promise not to vomit. I think of most of what is talked about on this forum as simply waking up to reality. Which is clearly avoidable for a goodly lot of the general populus.
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Old 08-06-07, 08:37 PM   #12
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solveg, I'm SERIOUSLY considering buying a rack for my car - assuming it'll hold 2 bikes, and assuming I decide to do it before mid-September, and assuming you'd be willing to do without one of those bikes for a month or so, I could drive one of them down to AR, then you could get it from here. Those are some BIG IF's, though (I'll let you know if I get a rack).

People do ride road bikes here - in fact that's mostly what I see, on the roads. Not sure if they're geared any differently than your Klein, though.

Another thing to consider is the changing weather - when it's 35 degrees and windy out, you may want the heavier bike for a shorter, more intense workout. Getting tired fast may be a good thing, in January.
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Old 08-06-07, 09:02 PM   #13
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Oh, that's nice, Becky! But it's not really an issue of not being able to bring both... it's more that I don't want to put the Atlantis on the back of a car for 2 trips, and that I'll be bringing a bike down there in October and not bringing it back to MN until April. It or they would be there for a long time, alone, and last spring I couldn't get down there at all because my puppy had surgery... so you hate to leave something you can't do without.
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Old 08-06-07, 09:03 PM   #14
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Why can't you take both bikes with you there and back?
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Old 08-06-07, 09:27 PM   #15
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Because I'm putting them in my trailer, which I'm going to leave in KS, since it's a pain to store up here in the winter and dig out of the snow in Feb. I don't really want to put the Atlantis on the back of my car because it's so new and nice. The Klein I would. Anyway, whatever bike goes there will either stay there permanently or come home in the spring.

I also don't have a garage down there and have a tiny* place, so no room for 2 bikes.

I'm thinking I'll have to try my Bridgestone again. Maybe now that I've got better riding habits, it won't hurt so much. It is* too big for me, though--I guess it didn't matter when I was in my 20's, but now it does.
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Old 08-07-07, 01:28 AM   #16
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Whereas, when I use it, it is to describe the shift from one view to another that was considered impossible in the prior view. New mental paradigm.
I wasn't ragging on you Tom. The people that I'm worried about are the folks that pay $500 to hear some charlatan explain how Sun Tzu's Art of War can be applied to their business career. Again, makes me want to vomit.
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Old 08-07-07, 04:27 AM   #17
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I wasn't ragging on you Tom. The people that I'm worried about are the folks that pay $500 to hear some charlatan explain how Sun Tzu's Art of War can be applied to their business career. Again, makes me want to vomit.
You get used to listening to such nonsense. I've built up a resistance to it. I had too.
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Old 08-07-07, 05:51 AM   #18
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I wasn't ragging on you Tom. The people that I'm worried about are the folks that pay $500 to hear some charlatan explain how Sun Tzu's Art of War can be applied to their business career. Again, makes me want to vomit.
I've been to several of those sun tzu classes. Scary. The only one that was worth anything was about conflict resolution skill and was actually quite good. the rest of them were just basically using sun tzu to explain how to be utterly cutthroat. I like the book, some great thoughts on anything that can be viewed as conflict, but in the business world <vomit>
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Old 08-07-07, 12:30 PM   #19
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I wasn't ragging on you Tom. The people that I'm worried about are the folks that pay $500 to hear some charlatan explain how Sun Tzu's Art of War can be applied to their business career. Again, makes me want to vomit.

I agree there! I didn't think anyone was ragging on me, and I too get vaguely nauseated when I hear the term applied in a business model.

Now Sun Tzu, I can see, as business is war, waged on an economic battlefield. If I use anything titled "The Art of War" though, I really prefer Niccolo Machiavelli's treatise. Less inscrutable.
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Old 08-07-07, 01:45 PM   #20
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My advice is to sell that Klein ASAP and pick up something fast and comfy like a steel Bianchi, Jamis or even a Lemond. I rode an aluminum road bike for many years and it was no fun.

You might be able to find an '06 Lemond Versailles (steel/cf frame) for less than a $1000. It'll probably come in at 21 lbs, but be much comfier. I'd call Scheel's down in Eden Prairie to see what they have left. Make sure you ask them to check at their other locations. Just don't buy from Penn. They tend to jack up the MSRP and then offer a big discount that is not really a discount. Jamis and Bianchi both offer a larger range of steel bikes but I don't know who I would buy from in the Twin Cities.
+1 on the versailles, I love mine and it is a very comfortable bike, I have a commuter/trekking bike as well and it's great, wider tires, racks and lower gearing, but it is slow. And it's really hard to explain why, but my versailles feels so right, it's a great bike.
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Old 08-07-07, 02:20 PM   #21
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I don't really understand why modern bikes are much better, though. I mean, people rode many, many miles on 1980's steel.

Let me get my SR up and running first. It's a lightweight Japanese sports-tourer from 1981 with a nice range of gears and Shimano 600 Arabesque grupo. I finished tuning it up the night the bridge fell, and only have to do some more lubing, then I'll bring it up north and see how it stands up.
It sounds like a lightweight steel tourer is exactly what you want. You should be able to mount racks and fenders for grocery runs or overnight touring to the next town, or take them off and fly along the flats.

If you're only limited to one bike at a time, that is. I subscribe to the 'n + 1' school of thought. Next on my list is a classic italian lugged steel with 10-speed Campy.

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Old 08-07-07, 04:21 PM   #22
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Thomas Kuhn coined the phrase paradigm shift to challenge the widely held notion that the growth of scientific knowledge is rationally continuous, linear and cumulative. Instead he tried to show that when a scientific revolution occurs we are really "shifting" between two paradigms that are irreconcilable. Scientific revolutions, he concluded, are in some important sense irrational.

That his work has been co-opted and converted into business speak makes me want to vomit too.
I've been on the receiving end of several re-orgs and corperate downsizings that used this book as a excuse to do the dirty deed - excuse me while I barf.

Sorry - [/rant off]
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Old 08-07-07, 04:32 PM   #23
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Oh, and on the bike thing, I'm getting in the mood to get a bike that is a little more "road" since I'm mostly riding pavement these days. I like my mountain bike but it's relatively heavy and requires a lot of effort. I'm not wanting to put something ultra-light with razor thin tires under my weight though. A friend has recently bought a Kona asphault bike he really likes - I need to check it out. He's 5'2" 135# though, and I'm 6' 237# - so I might not like it as much as he does.

The old mountain bike sure is comfy though. I'm starting to do some rides in the 40 to 50 mile range occasionally and I think a more road worthy bike would be nice. I live less than 200 miles from Conway but the terrain is way different on this side of the mighty mo.
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Old 08-07-07, 04:51 PM   #24
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I've been on the receiving end of several re-orgs and corperate downsizings that used this book as a excuse to do the dirty deed - excuse me while I barf.

Sorry - [/rant off]
Come to that, if you'll pardon the pun, I'm using it for downsizing as well!

Just one that's actually beneficial!
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Old 08-07-07, 06:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeeperTim View Post
I've been on the receiving end of several re-orgs and corperate downsizings that used this book as a excuse to do the dirty deed - excuse me while I barf.

Sorry - [/rant off]
I wish they would be honest with the pink slips, a wording like this would be more truthful:

Our company is laying off all you people who have been overworked and underpaid for us, for the last 25 years, we are moving the office jobs to India and the manufacturing jobs to China. This will save us, a whole boat load of money. We know you are now older, and the chances of getting another decent job, are somewhere between zero and zilch. We know you will need to sell your house, and rent a run down, roach infested apartment, on the wrong side of town. We know, you will never be able to afford to send your kids to college, so they will need to take on a crushing debt load, if they want a decent job themselves. We know all this, but we don't freaking care, because we will get big bonuses for getting rid of you bums.

Don't worry about your former manager, he got a big bonus, and a nice early retirement package. The rest of the management team got even larger bonuses so we are nice and comfortable, and we managed to stiff the shareholders (by paying the big bonuses) in the process of gouging the customers and screwing the employees.

Signed,

Big Shooter, CEO.

Can you tell I got a few of the politically correct, feel good ones?
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