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  1. #1
    Chubby super biker bdinger's Avatar
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    Bummer for Hardrock owners - and help me upgrade mine :D

    First off, big bummer for '07 Hardrock Sport owners. It seems that the stock crankset will only bolt up to one (ONE) bottom bracket, made by TruVativ, and comes stock in our bikes. This BB is also notorious for having.. "issues" after several hundred miles. See the reviews at MTBr:

    http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Bottom_B...t_126284.shtml

    Hint: they aren't good

    That's a bummer. So I'm faced with either biting the bullet and getting another BB that will last me maybe another 500 miles (around the point where my current one started getting noisy/grindy) or to get a new crank AND bb. I'm going for the latter option, but need opinons on one that will definitely be a tank.

    If you don't know me, I'm a big guy. I ride my Hardrock.. well.. HARD. My initial thought is to go with a Shimano LX crankset with a XT BB. I've heard that combo is pretty tough, but lacking the lightness of XT or XTR. Am I on the right track?

    Second bummer, my Acera rear der is squeaky. I've tried oiling to no avail, I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that it's shot.. abuse again . Same thing, I'm looking at a LX rear der, and replacing the front with a LX while I'm at it (they're only $18 ).

    Now the chain, bummer three, is pretty sloppy after nearly 1,000 miles. I seem to kill them all around that point, so no biggie. Same thing.. should I get the XT 8-speed chain, or is the LX chain fine? I'd like to get more than 1,000 out of a chain, so I'm willing to spend some extra bucks for that. And should I really swap out the cassette when I upgrade the chain? The cassette looks pretty good on a closer inspection after cleaning, so I'd like to get another 1,000 or so out of it.

    Finally, tires. I've heard raves about WTB NanoRaptors, but they only hold 65 psi. My current tires run at 80, and that almost seems to low. I'd like to keep knobbies on there so I don't have to swap tires every time I go into the dirt, any suggestions? I roll on hardpack and gravel when offroad, with occasional grass.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdinger View Post
    If you don't know me, I'm a big guy. I ride my Hardrock.. well.. HARD. My initial thought is to go with a Shimano LX crankset with a XT BB. I've heard that combo is pretty tough, but lacking the lightness of XT or XTR. Am I on the right track?
    Go with an LX Integrated Crank set, the bearings are on the outside of the crank. They are great and probably the most cost effective.

    http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...20ATB%20Cranks

    159 but you can probably find it cheaper just look around, you may even be able to get an '06 on clearance at a LBS.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdinger
    Second bummer, my Acera rear der is squeaky. I've tried oiling to no avail, I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that it's shot.. abuse again . Same thing, I'm looking at a LX rear der, and replacing the front with a LX while I'm at it (they're only $18 ).
    LX is great, they are durable and will take a beating and still keep right on going.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdinger
    Now the chain, bummer three, is pretty sloppy after nearly 1,000 miles. I seem to kill them all around that point, so no biggie. Same thing.. should I get the XT 8-speed chain, or is the LX chain fine? I'd like to get more than 1,000 out of a chain, so I'm willing to spend some extra bucks for that. And should I really swap out the cassette when I upgrade the chain? The cassette looks pretty good on a closer inspection after cleaning, so I'd like to get another 1,000 or so out of it.
    In reality a 1000 miles on a chain is actually pretty normal, and since you are getting a new crank a new chain is almost required, if you put the old chain on the new crank can cause more shifting problems that its worth, and a new cassette is probably a good idea depending on how many miles you have on it. If it were me I would put a whole drive train on at the one time, seems to make things smoother for the upgrade, but then that is just my opinion.
    Check out the online buyers guide for cycling
    http://bikeotter.com/index.php?optio...pper&Itemid=29

  3. #3
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    And I agree........
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


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    The Power Spline bottom brackets are spec'ed on loads of bikes and they seem hit and miss. I have one on my mountain bike and have had no issues with it after the cranks became seated. Up until that point they creaked quite a bit. When the BB goes I will get another one and put it on one of my kids bikes. I like the Shimano Hone series cranks as a potential replacement.

    For the rear derailleur squeaking, oil is only a stop gap measure as it is pretty hard to get the oil where it needs to be. The only thing that moves on the derailleur after you have shifted into a gear are the jockey wheels that is were the squeak comes from. To get rid of the squeak take the cage apart, clean the wheels off, clean and grease the sleeve that goes through the wheel and put it all back together. Make sure you keep the parts for the top and bottom wheels separate as they are not necessarily the same. If you insist on upgrading then go ahead and get LX level, the components at that level are quite good.

    I wouldn't change the front derailleur unless it was problematic. I have used everything from Acera level to XTR on my various bikes and with the front it makes little difference so long as they are well adjusted. I only replace them when the pivot points become loose as this makes the shifts really slow.

    With the chain, not sure what sloppy means, chains wear by having the pins wear down resulting in the chain becoming longer and no longer meshing properly with the rest of your driveline. Some people seem to believe that they have literally lengthened the chain with their massive power but the amount that the plates actually "stretch" is insignificant. If your chain has actually lengthened beyond usefullness then the cassette needs to be changed at the same time as the chain. I use SRAM (usually PC58) chains as I really like the Power Link connection, with the Shimano chains you need to buy break away pins for putting the chain together. Not usually an issue but I like to take my chain off to clean it.

  5. #5
    Chubby super biker bdinger's Avatar
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    UtRacerDad - I saw that exact LX crankset and was wondering what the difference was between that, and just getting a LX crank with a separate BB. If I'm reading correctly, with that if I have creaking/squeaking/etc only the bearings need replaced but not the entire BB? I could see that being a huge advantage cost-wise over the long term.. $10 for bearings is cheaper than a $50 bb!

    I figured the 1000 number for chains was pretty normal, one of my friends seems to kill the chains on his bikes around that number as well. Seeing that the cassette is "only" another $40, I'll replace that while I'm at it. If nothing else, it gives me the current one to have around as a spare.

    andymac - Interesting on the RD, I had thought about taking it off and giving it a cleaner bath, but even when new it seemed not nearly as smooth as others. It's a Shimano Acera, so basically the low end Shimano stuff. I rode a Rockhopper with just a Deore RD when I bought the Hardrock, and almost bought the Rockhopper for that reason alone! The drivetrain was MUCH smoother. I'd like this round of "upgrades" to last awhile, which is why I'm going for the RD. The front der has been the only issue on the bike, seems every 200 or so miles I need to take it in for adjustment. It's at that point again, so I'm going to waste $20 and see if that gets me no more adjustments. And I'm a sucker for upgrades.

    Regarding the chain, sloppy is that I can visibly see it being a little "loose", and it is jumping out of gear on the 11 and 13 tooth on the cassette while in the "middle ring". Those two sprockets look good on inspecting them, and hold fine when I'm in the 42t ring. Same thing happened with the old Raleigh I was riding last year before the chain finally took a trip .

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    1000 miles is not much for a chain, I usually get about 3000 on the road on my winter commuter riding in the nastiest sort of weather and I get about the same out of the chains on my mountain bike. My fair weather bike has about 5000 miles on it's current chain. It is largely a matter of maintenance, they will all wear out but you can slow this by keeping the crud out of the rollers. This means cleaning them before oiling, putting oil/lube on a dirty chain just helps carry dirt into the rollers.
    By the way, my experience with chains so far is that cost has little to do with durability. The only reason I opt for the SRAM PC58 chain over the PC48 is that the PC58 seems to be a little more rust resistant and I ride in the rain frequently.

    The smallest cogs wear the fastest and the chain has to make the tightest bends to fit around them so those are usually the first to go. It is hard to tell how worn they are by looking at them, I keep a short length of unused chain in my toolbox and wrap that around the cassette to see how worn it is. You will see that the chain does not fit properly on the worn cogs. The likely reasons that your chain skips on the smallest cogs and middle ring but not on the larger ring is that the chain is running straighter when on the large ring and there is a little more tension on the chain. In any event, if your derailleur is properly adjusted and the chain skips then the cassette/chain are likely toast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdinger View Post
    UtRacerDad - I saw that exact LX crankset and was wondering what the difference was between that, and just getting a LX crank with a separate BB. If I'm reading correctly, with that if I have creaking/squeaking/etc only the bearings need replaced but not the entire BB? I could see that being a huge advantage cost-wise over the long term.. $10 for bearings is cheaper than a $50 bb!
    yeah the bottom bracket is actually integrated with the crank, but you can just replace the bearings if needed when they wear out. Right now I am running that type of a crank on both my road bike and mountain bike and I have had no problems with creaking noises coming from the crank. My touring bike that has the old style BB and crank creaks something terrible when I get a new crank I will upgrade it to the integrated one. And the nice thing about the LX crank is that it is really stiff and for a Clyde (at least for me) it has been a great crank to ride on.
    Check out the online buyers guide for cycling
    http://bikeotter.com/index.php?optio...pper&Itemid=29

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdinger View Post
    I rode a Rockhopper with just a Deore RD when I bought the Hardrock, and almost bought the Rockhopper for that reason alone! The drivetrain was MUCH smoother.
    Why not just sell the Hardrock as is and replace it with a Rockhopper? You'd get a brand new bike and won't have to mess around with anything else. Hardrocks are popular enough I would guess it would sell easly on Craigslist.

    Just my thoughts. Since this thread is kind of about parts. What happened to SunTour? My old trek has their stuff, just wondering.

  9. #9
    Chubby super biker bdinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astropuppy View Post
    Why not just sell the Hardrock as is and replace it with a Rockhopper? You'd get a brand new bike and won't have to mess around with anything else. Hardrocks are popular enough I would guess it would sell easly on Craigslist.

    Just my thoughts. Since this thread is kind of about parts. What happened to SunTour? My old trek has their stuff, just wondering.
    I actually thought about that. However, for around $300 I'll have a full LX drivetrain on my hardrock, taking my total investment in that bike up to $679. For that, I don't think even bikesdirect has something comparable.

    It boils down to the fact that the frame is indestructible, it fits me great, and these are the first issues I've had with it in 1,000 hard miles. Most of all, I trust it. If I got a new ride, right off the bat I'd get a different wheelset. And I'd have to again search for something that fits right. Etc etc.


    Anyway, I really have thought about that a bit. If I get another MTB it will be a 29er, and probably a Karate Monkey. The build cost will probably be twice (and change) of what I've already and am going to put into the HR, and right now that's not really a feasible option. So I'll upgrade this one.. and ride the wheels off

  10. #10
    Chubby super biker bdinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtRacerDad View Post
    yeah the bottom bracket is actually integrated with the crank, but you can just replace the bearings if needed when they wear out. Right now I am running that type of a crank on both my road bike and mountain bike and I have had no problems with creaking noises coming from the crank. My touring bike that has the old style BB and crank creaks something terrible when I get a new crank I will upgrade it to the integrated one. And the nice thing about the LX crank is that it is really stiff and for a Clyde (at least for me) it has been a great crank to ride on.
    Sweet, well it seems like it's well worth the extra $50-ish as opposed to the seperate BB/crank units. I'll go with that one then, now i just need to figure out what size... doh!

  11. #11
    Keep on, keepin on B Piddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdinger View Post
    Sweet, well it seems like it's well worth the extra $50-ish as opposed to the seperate BB/crank units. I'll go with that one then, now i just need to figure out what size... doh!
    Is that crankset / bottom bracket setup available with different chain-ring sizes? That LX model looks really nice and I'm in the market for a new BB. I just dont think the 44-32-22 chain rings are gonna cut it for my bike. It's geared low enough as it is with 48/38/28
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Piddy View Post
    Is that crankset / bottom bracket setup available with different chain-ring sizes? That LX model looks really nice and I'm in the market for a new BB. I just dont think the 44-32-22 chain rings are gonna cut it for my bike. It's geared low enough as it is with 48/38/28
    I haven't been able to find one online but they do make them.

    http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycl...=1186683918582

    seems that you would probably have to order one, that's the one I'm going to put on my touring bike when I replace the crank.
    Check out the online buyers guide for cycling
    http://bikeotter.com/index.php?optio...pper&Itemid=29

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    Quote Originally Posted by B Piddy View Post
    Is that crankset / bottom bracket setup available with different chain-ring sizes? That LX model looks really nice and I'm in the market for a new BB. I just dont think the 44-32-22 chain rings are gonna cut it for my bike. It's geared low enough as it is with 48/38/28
    There is one other option for this crankset and it is a 48T-36T-26T Shimano part number FC-M581.
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  14. #14
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    You could get a standard bb and ask your bike shop if they have a set of used cranks laying around they can give you for a few bucks. They did that with mine, no issues. Cost for the Surino cranks (triple 175) was $15.

  15. #15
    Senior Member DieselDan's Avatar
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    As for the squeaky rear derailer: chances are the jockey pulley (upper pulley) bushing is dry. That is a floating bushing that eases indexed shifts. Remove the pulley, then put a dab of grease (not oil) on the bushing, then reinstall pulley.
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    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdinger View Post
    First off, big bummer for '07 Hardrock Sport owners. It seems that the stock crankset will only bolt up to one (ONE) bottom bracket, made by TruVativ, and comes stock in our bikes. This BB is also notorious for having.. "issues" after several hundred miles. See the reviews at MTBr:

    http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Bottom_B...t_126284.shtml

    Hint: they aren't good

    That's a bummer. So I'm faced with either biting the bullet and getting another BB that will last me maybe another 500 miles (around the point where my current one started getting noisy/grindy) or to get a new crank AND bb. I'm going for the latter option, but need opinons on one that will definitely be a tank.

    If you don't know me, I'm a big guy. I ride my Hardrock.. well.. HARD. My initial thought is to go with a Shimano LX crankset with a XT BB. I've heard that combo is pretty tough, but lacking the lightness of XT or XTR. Am I on the right track?

    Second bummer, my Acera rear der is squeaky. I've tried oiling to no avail, I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that it's shot.. abuse again . Same thing, I'm looking at a LX rear der, and replacing the front with a LX while I'm at it (they're only $18 ).

    Now the chain, bummer three, is pretty sloppy after nearly 1,000 miles. I seem to kill them all around that point, so no biggie. Same thing.. should I get the XT 8-speed chain, or is the LX chain fine? I'd like to get more than 1,000 out of a chain, so I'm willing to spend some extra bucks for that. And should I really swap out the cassette when I upgrade the chain? The cassette looks pretty good on a closer inspection after cleaning, so I'd like to get another 1,000 or so out of it.

    Finally, tires. I've heard raves about WTB NanoRaptors, but they only hold 65 psi. My current tires run at 80, and that almost seems to low. I'd like to keep knobbies on there so I don't have to swap tires every time I go into the dirt, any suggestions? I roll on hardpack and gravel when offroad, with occasional grass.

    Thanks in advance!
    I don't know about the other stuff, and I don't have a hard rock, but I think I will be updating the crank on mine this winter, as I want higher gearing. You might give that BB another shot, sometimes manufacturers will make changes to components mid stream, so it may have improved.

    If your interested, I could send you the 2004 Acera RD I have (a pin fell out), maybe take them both apart, and swap some parts around, you just need to pay for shipping. PM me with contact info if interested, I'll have a look for it.

    As for the chain, maybe try an SRAM or KMC with the link that opens, then once a month or so, take it off, and give it a degreaser bath, you might get a little longer out of them then. Mind you chains are fairly cheap, I don't like Shimano chains, because of the replaceable pin idea, mind you I never remove a chain until it's worn out or broken anyway. I need to pick up a chain checker, as my chain must be just about the 1000 mile mark......

  17. #17
    Senior Member Bill Kapaun's Avatar
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    Bdinger-
    I notice your current big ring is 42T. make sure you have enough clearance on the chain stay for a larger ring if you go that way.
    Another thought-(I'm just full of them)-
    What is the length of your current cranks? With the force you put on the bike, maybe consider shorter arms? IOW, transfer some of your torque into a little higher cadence to do the same job? Maybe that would reduce some of the stress on your components.
    If you are going to change the cassette, maybe a different number of cogs. I don't know if you are happy with what you have or not, but this would be a good time to change if you aren't. Also if you go to noticeably larger rings up front, it will change your ratios.
    Just some thoughts-

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