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  1. #1
    ~! LIVESTRONG !~ chainzawz's Avatar
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    CSW Race Bike Build! WARNING LOTS OF ?'

    !!WARNING WARNING!! I am going to be rambling a lot....


    Figured I would post here since I am currently a clyde (only by weigh but that will be gone soon...) but I am tough on bikes so I figured that if it is clyde proof it me "bull in a china shop proof"


    Ok so I figured I would start this thread so that I have a place to ask all my questions, post updates, act like a fool (not really, but I do it all the time anyways so even better ). As some of you already know I am going to be building up a racing bike. I will be moving up to NH soon (within in months) I start school at SNHU (Southern New Hampshire University) in September so I am very excited (getting my degree in IT for those who were wondering!). And I have met a few guys up there while visiting my uncle and cruising around on the LeMond who are in a cycling club and the also have a team that will be riding in some of the local races. So I will be doing a cat5 race sometime in the next year.

    Anyways I posted a thread earlier asking if what kind of frame to get (even though I wanted to get a PedalForce one) and of course I missed out on the group buy (oh well, didn't want that frame anyways).

    SO I am planning ongoing with the PedalForce QS2 (http://pedalforce.com/online/product...roducts_id=348)

    But might go with the RS
    (http://pedalforce.com/online/product...oducts_id=3028)

    Even though the customer rep. I talked to said that the weight limit is 180 (I am 40 pounds over and once I loose weight (the vast majority of it) I think I would be down to around 155-165) so that is exciting.

    Now I am in the process of picking out all the components that will be going on the bike. Not really sure what I am going to do yet. I might go with a group-set and then pick out the stem, handlebars, water bottle cages and wheels by myself or I might pick out all the parts myself.

    I am not really sure what "level" of parts to put on the bike. I know that it will be a race bike and I can't get all that attached to it (going to be hard though!). I was considering putting the Ultegra group on it since they seem to offer the best *bang for you buck*-ness.

    Comments are welcome on what groupset to get OR what individual parts to get (I was also kind of considering a CF FSA crankset) so I do not have my mind set on what I am going to do already and I would appreciate some input!

    Now I guess I should list all my questions so that the are all put together in an organized fashion (what can I say I am a student and OCD it has to be perfect!)

    *****************************************************************************************

    QUESTIONS

    1. Need input on what groupset (or bunch of parts) to use to make my own groupset

    (I was considering Ultegra but is that too much for a first time racer?, I am hoping that this bike will last a while so I was going for the parts that I would hope would stand up to a few years of abuse)

    2. Need input on which frame would suit me better..should I go with the one that says "for the stronger rider"? or not?

    3. Wheels, I was planning on picking up some kind of Carbon Fiber wheels (I am going to be riding my LeMond till I loose enough weight for this to be "safe", so don't worry I will not try to ride then at 220#s

    So input on wheels would be appreciated!

    3. For the clyde racers out there. What are you riding (I know that it's a personal thing but I figured I would ask anyways)

    I think that about covers it for now...until I come up with a million more questions to ask. I plan on using this thread for all my build questions!
    Last edited by chainzawz; 01-31-08 at 12:07 PM.
    "although i have no idea who or what a pcad is."

    "You'll see."

    *hands Pcad a new crankarm*

  2. #2
    Genetics have failed me Scummer's Avatar
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    On the groupset I think it really depends on what you want to spend and how serious you want to get with the biking.
    I believe all groupsets work just fine for the leasure/amateur racer and really only a pro needs a higher end (shimano dura ace/sram red/campy record).
    BUT there certainly is a difference in shifter/shifting feel when it comes to the different quality of the groupsets and if you have the money and you do like quality/high end parts on your bike, I'd say there is nothing wrong with a higher end groupset. Hell, I sport a Shimano Dura Ace/Ultegra mix on my Trek bike myself and I love the smoothness of the shifting, but I can ride my '93 steely with a 15 year old 105 groupset almost as fast as my new Trek... almost . The shifting is definitely a world of a difference, but so are 15 years in between the groupsets. But for a century or longer distance ride it really wouldn't make a difference since shifting is down to a minimum on such distances. In a crit race on the other hand where you continually adjust your cadence to match your strategy/attack/draft etc it is much more critical on how well your groupset works. I certainly would not race my old bike with downtube shifters in a crit or a road race.

    Also wheels:
    The wheel weight is only important for fast/explosive acceleration and doesn't matter so much in long distance rides. Again light wheels are good for crits/road races and mountain climbing.

    And I ride my Trek during events and crits, but I used my steely last year for commuting to work (30 miles on way). For ultra long distances I would take my steely, because I have the beefier wheels on that one (36 spokes front and rear) since durability matters when you go beyond 200 miles in one sitting.

    But that's just my opinion

    Thomas
    Gelato aficionado.

  3. #3
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    All great advice, Thomas!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    On the groupset I think it really depends on what you want to spend and how serious you want to get with the biking.
    I believe all groupsets work just fine for the leasure/amateur racer and really only a pro needs a higher end (shimano dura ace/sram red/campy record).
    BUT there certainly is a difference in shifter/shifting feel when it comes to the different quality of the groupsets and if you have the money and you do like quality/high end parts on your bike, I'd say there is nothing wrong with a higher end groupset. Hell, I sport a Shimano Dura Ace/Ultegra mix on my Trek bike myself and I love the smoothness of the shifting, but I can ride my '93 steely with a 15 year old 105 groupset almost as fast as my new Trek... almost . The shifting is definitely a world of a difference, but so are 15 years in between the groupsets. But for a century or longer distance ride it really wouldn't make a difference since shifting is down to a minimum on such distances. In a crit race on the other hand where you continually adjust your cadence to match your strategy/attack/draft etc it is much more critical on how well your groupset works. I certainly would not race my old bike with downtube shifters in a crit or a road race.

    Also wheels:
    The wheel weight is only important for fast/explosive acceleration and doesn't matter so much in long distance rides. Again light wheels are good for crits/road races and mountain climbing.

    And I ride my Trek during events and crits, but I used my steely last year for commuting to work (30 miles on way). For ultra long distances I would take my steely, because I have the beefier wheels on that one (36 spokes front and rear) since durability matters when you go beyond 200 miles in one sitting.

    But that's just my opinion

    Thomas
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  4. #4
    Senior Member piper_chuck's Avatar
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    I did my one and only race somewhere around 13 years ago. I at least 10 years older (mid-late 30s) than many of the riders (mostly 20 somethings), but had been training quite a bit for several years. I did the race on a Trek 1200 with down tube shifters at a time where all the "cool" people had already switched to STI. The race was on a 1/3 mile oval stock car track. Our Cat 5 group consisted of 25 racers. The race was scheduled for 1/2 hour at which time they would ring the bell to signify one more lap. In spite of my superior age, and inferior bike, I ended up in 7th place. Not bad for a FROG.

    The bottom line of racing is that conditioning, riding/racing skills, and determination are way more important than equipment. You can't buy yourself into the winning circle at any level, and you have to rise quite a ways before the difference between good and great equipment will matter.

    I don't know what you ride now, but if it's an acceptable road bike that works well and fits you, you could consider just using that until you get down to racing weight and get some races under your belt. Unless you've got lots of spare cash, I'd really suggest following an economical path for now and save the ultimate build until you've moved up a few categories.

    Moving on to your questions, I almost built a bike last summer. In the end, I decided to buy one instead. The best deals seem to come from buying a complete package rather than piece parts. I saw some pretty good deals on Ultegra groups. I also read quite a bit that said even a 105 group would shift pretty darned good.
    Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?

  5. #5
    ~! LIVESTRONG !~ chainzawz's Avatar
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    Wow thanks for all the responses all!

    Yes I do know that the LeMond Etape that I have now would be find for racing (at least for the early stages) but since I have some money laying around I figured I would invest in a new bike. I appreciate all the responses so far!
    "although i have no idea who or what a pcad is."

    "You'll see."

    *hands Pcad a new crankarm*

  6. #6
    Genetics have failed me Scummer's Avatar
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    If you don't have at least 50k in a liquid assets lying around I wouldn't call it a lot.

    I used to think 25k's was a good junk of change until I hit the unemployment lottery for 6 month. It changed my perception on the value of 25k quite a bit. 25k ain't worth crap nowadays.
    Gelato aficionado.

  7. #7
    ~! LIVESTRONG !~ chainzawz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    If you don't have at least 50k in a liquid assets lying around I wouldn't call it a lot.

    I used to think 25k's was a good junk of change until I hit the unemployment lottery for 6 month. It changed my perception on the value of 25k quite a bit. 25k ain't worth crap nowadays.
    Heh all true, my Great Aunt left me a lot of money...enough for me to get my Masters degree in college and then some...

    It's mostly all invested now but I have a few grand hanging around that I am being told I "should invest into a new bike since you want to be the next Marco Pantani" My uncles exact words...and I am short, the same height as Pantani lol
    "although i have no idea who or what a pcad is."

    "You'll see."

    *hands Pcad a new crankarm*

  8. #8
    Senior Member piper_chuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chainzawz View Post
    Heh all true, my Great Aunt left me a lot of money...enough for me to get my Masters degree in college and then some...

    It's mostly all invested now but I have a few grand hanging around that I am being told I "should invest into a new bike since you want to be the next Marco Pantani" My uncles exact words...and I am short, the same height as Pantani lol
    Something to remember is that buying a new bike is spending, not investing, money. Not saying you shouldn't enjoy the money, just don't call it an investment.
    Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?

  9. #9
    Genetics have failed me Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chainzawz View Post
    Heh all true, my Great Aunt left me a lot of money...enough for me to get my Masters degree in college and then some...

    It's mostly all invested now but I have a few grand hanging around that I am being told I "should invest into a new bike since you want to be the next Marco Pantani" My uncles exact words...and I am short, the same height as Pantani lol
    Well... in that case....
    Oh.. and get yourself a pair of EXCELLENT biking shoes and a saddle that fits your butt. Now that will make a huge difference!
    Make sure they are wide enough and large enough to fit comfortably when you're foot is all swollen from the pressure and work they have to go through.

    A great pair of cycling shoes and a perfectly fitting saddle is worth every penny, especially on long and ultra long distance rides where ride comfort is a must have.
    Not that your arse won't hurt anyway once you start getting serious with biking, but after your butt is conditioned it's like sitting on a comfortable chair.
    Gelato aficionado.

  10. #10
    ~! LIVESTRONG !~ chainzawz's Avatar
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    haha, thats true...


    I wasn't looking at it as an investment in a monetary standpoint as much as investment into the future of racing


    Ok now I have a question for you all, and I know that this is one of those things that is always asked and everyone is probably going to be laughing now that I am going to ask this but....

    Should I go with Shimano or Campy?

    I have heard that with campy shifting is "faster" not really sure how true that is since I have never dealt with campy at all. I have always had Shimano on my road bike (LeMond lol) but I wouldn't mind learning a new system doesn't really bother me...if anyone could comment on the shifting ability of the Campy systems that would be great!
    "although i have no idea who or what a pcad is."

    "You'll see."

    *hands Pcad a new crankarm*

  11. #11
    Genetics have failed me Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chainzawz View Post
    Should I go with Shimano or Campy?
    I think you better ask that question in the road bike forum. And be prepared with a fire extinguisher once you're done posting because the discussions can get heated.

    That's like asking, what's a better? A Ferrari or a Lamborghini? It's a matter of taste.

    Ah, and don't forget to include SRAM, since the SRAM Red is currently seen as the non-plus ultra for all the wannabe TdF winners
    Gelato aficionado.

  12. #12
    ~! LIVESTRONG !~ chainzawz's Avatar
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    Haha, oh boy the road forum....with Pcad and his Pcad-ness. I have a few posts in there but I don't know about asking Campy V.S Shimano! Thats suicide!

    Guess I will read some articles and check it out for myself! A trip to the LBS could probably help too but he doesn't carry CAMPY!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I think you better ask that question in the road bike forum. And be prepared with a fire extinguisher once you're done posting because the discussions can get heated.

    That's like asking, what's a better? A Ferrari or a Lamborghini? It's a matter of taste.

    Ah, and don't forget to include SRAM, since the SRAM red is currently seen as the non-plus ultra for all the wannabe TdF winners
    Last edited by chainzawz; 01-31-08 at 03:00 PM.
    "although i have no idea who or what a pcad is."

    "You'll see."

    *hands Pcad a new crankarm*

  13. #13
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Tough on bikes? What, stock rims? Heck, I can bust those looking at 'em! You can't claim to be tough on bikes till you snap that Lemond frame!

    You need a well built Velocity Deep V in the rear. You won't hurt it!

  14. #14
    Used to be fast surfjimc's Avatar
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    Some thoughts about your new steed...
    I've raced Ultegra, DA, and Record. Different style brifters are about it. Shimano may shift a bit smoother and I like the shifting system better. Ultegra is the best for the $$$, but weighs a bit more. Campy is Old World luxury. Buy what makes you happy, it's really just functional bling at that level, and you don't want to be constantly thinking about upgrading six months later.
    If you are going to race the 5's, crashing is inevitable. Replacing brifters and rear derailuers has a cost.
    I don't think you will have any wheel issues under 180-200lbs
    I ride Dura Ace on a CF frame these days, but don't need it. It came in at 16.5lbs. Had the cash and wanted the bling. I never rode CF before and wanted to try it.
    I went your route, bought a frame, then a group and parts to build it. Came in way cheaper than a comparable complete bike. I went with a bike build kit from Colorado Cyclist to simplify things.
    Went with Mavic Ksyriums for wheels. I'm 270 and they've been amazing. Still true and tight after a few thousand miles.
    Good luck and have lots of fun.

  15. #15
    Evil Genius oopfoo's Avatar
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    I'm going to be the horrible "voice of reason" here.

    You're investing in the "future of racing" by purchasing a bicycle that's essentially, by your own admission, going to sit around while you lose weight, because the bike has a rider weight limit. Why on earth would you want to put yourself through that?

    Personally, I'd purchase a much more durable high-end bike with the money.
    1. Consider a Ti frame. They're super-light, and super-durable. You'll be forced to replace a carbon frame eventually, but you'll have the choice of riding your Ti bike for a lifetime. You'll get a carbon fork, and you could even get a carbon rear triangle if you want one to satisfy your cravings.
    2. Don't buy CF wheels. Unless you're a super-light climbing monster and can use comparatively weak wheels, you'll hate the things. Consider a very light aluminum wheelset like a Fulcrum Racing Zero, or even a reasonably light one like the Easton EA90SL. You'll be able to use them right away, they're top-notch racing components, and you won't have to stare at them for months on end.
    3. Don't limit yourself to Shimano. Check out places like WheelandSprocket.com, and other reputable eBay sellers who frequently blow-out last-year's component groups at rock-bottom prices. SRAM Rival is an excellent alternative, and you'll have a wider choice of Internet sellers to buy it from.
    4. Don't fret the crashes. Unless 5's have gotten MUCH worse in the time I've been away, it's not ALL crashing, just SOME. I never replaced a derailleur in all my time as a 4 in the 80's--I just broke parts of ME.

    Anyway, take this for what it's worth. I'm a bit of a coach, so I have to be this way to bike racers, I guess. I'm also a big guy who loves racing bikes.

    I'm psyched that you're getting into racing. You're inspiring me to continue my big "comeback."
    -- Michael

  16. #16
    ~! LIVESTRONG !~ chainzawz's Avatar
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    thanks all for the replies, I appreciate all the posts.

    I also appreciate pointing out that *dura-ace....record* difference (it's very appreciated!)

    "You're investing in the "future of racing" by purchasing a bicycle that's essentially, by your own admission, going to sit around while you lose weight, because the bike has a rider weight limit. Why on earth would you want to put yourself through that? "

    ^Just thought I would give you some insight on my thought process. I am currently 220 and I should probably weight 155-170 for my height. I had injured my ankle (broke it, tore ligaments and also chipped part of the bone) all that in one year then the next year I had displaced my kneecap. Both of witch to this day bother the heck out of me (you know the whole bad weather joints hurt bit lol). So I gained a lot of weight on top of what was already there.


    Basically I want to use it as a motivational tool. I know it's probably a stupid idea and all but I figure I am going to want to ride it bad enough so I will work my a@@ off to get it. Probably a studpid idea but that was my thought process.
    "although i have no idea who or what a pcad is."

    "You'll see."

    *hands Pcad a new crankarm*

  17. #17
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Between me and thee, I'd go with the bike you CAN ride, since riding it contriutes to your goal of losing the weight.

    As to the wheels, I run 36 spoke deep V's from Velocity, and frankly, I can't tell the difference in rotational mass and acceleration to the lightweight wheels. I still have the leg strength from being a Superclyde and can generate a LOT of torque. It's pretty funny sometimes watching a drivers face when I can, at least for the short term, out accelerate their car.

    Quote Originally Posted by chainzawz View Post
    thanks all for the replies, I appreciate all the posts.

    I also appreciate pointing out that *dura-ace....record* difference (it's very appreciated!)

    "You're investing in the "future of racing" by purchasing a bicycle that's essentially, by your own admission, going to sit around while you lose weight, because the bike has a rider weight limit. Why on earth would you want to put yourself through that? "

    ^Just thought I would give you some insight on my thought process. I am currently 220 and I should probably weight 155-170 for my height. I had injured my ankle (broke it, tore ligaments and also chipped part of the bone) all that in one year then the next year I had displaced my kneecap. Both of witch to this day bother the heck out of me (you know the whole bad weather joints hurt bit lol). So I gained a lot of weight on top of what was already there.


    Basically I want to use it as a motivational tool. I know it's probably a stupid idea and all but I figure I am going to want to ride it bad enough so I will work my a@@ off to get it. Probably a studpid idea but that was my thought process.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  18. #18
    Evil Genius oopfoo's Avatar
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    +1 for the Velocity Deep V's. I have run a pair for a cyclocross bike, and these things are attractive AND bulletproof. A great value in a wheelset.

    My response was based primarily on the OP's intent to build some sort of carbon weight-weenie device.
    -- Michael

  19. #19
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Well, for the weight weenie-ism, my Allez weighed in at slightly over 17 1/2 pounds before I added the aerobars with the deep V's vs 17 1/4 with the lighter stock wheels.

    Quote Originally Posted by oopfoo View Post
    +1 for the Velocity Deep V's. I have run a pair for a cyclocross bike, and these things are attractive AND bulletproof. A great value in a wheelset.

    My response was based primarily on the OP's intent to build some sort of carbon weight-weenie device.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  20. #20
    ~! LIVESTRONG !~ chainzawz's Avatar
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    Hey all, thanks for the reply. After doing a little research I think I am going to go with an aluminum frame instead of a CF steed. Nothing against CF just figured that an aluminum frame might be a bit better.


    I am looking at the CAAD9 from Cannondale for those of you who are curious. I am talking to my LBS about it and he is saying that he can probably get me the frame and fork for around S999 which sounds like a good deal to me. Then I will be able to pick out my own wheels and stem handlebars all that stuff. So I figure if this is the way I decide to go the I can throw the Ultegra group on it and get some wheels built up.
    "although i have no idea who or what a pcad is."

    "You'll see."

    *hands Pcad a new crankarm*

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