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-   -   Supplements (http://www.bikeforums.net/clydesdales-athenas-200-lb-91-kg/398498-supplements.html)

thaetviking 03-17-08 12:17 PM

Supplements
 
So I started a regiment of supplements everyday. On that i started to take was CLA tonalin. It is a linoleic acid that helps with inflammation. I noticed effects right away with it opening my nasal passages. They say as far as weight loss and muscle building goes it takes three months for you to start seeing the effects. I was wondering if any one else is taking it?

I have also started taking fish oil and glucosimine. Are there any other supplements that people could suggest? What has worked well for you?

Tom Stormcrowe 03-17-08 03:12 PM

A good multivitamin, preferably the adult dose of a childrens chewable, since it metabolized better, and Calcium Citrate, with Vitamin D. The B Complex (B1, B6, B12) will also help you with energy levels, as well as the hemocrit levels and they are water soluble, so any excess will pass thriough the kidneys assuming normal kidney function.

nscrbug 03-17-08 03:29 PM

+1 on the Glucosamine. I've noticed the biggest overall improvement since I started taking a Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM combo supplement (I use the triple-strength Osteo-Biflex brand) over 3 years ago. My knees aren't as creaky and crunchy as they used to be. It takes a good while (for me it was 2-3 months) before you feel the effects of it, but for me it was well worth having the patience. I plan on adding some type of Omega-3 fish oil supplement eventually because I've read that it has good anti-inflammatory properties (I have lower back issues), but am having a difficult time on deciding which brand to go with. I've heard/read that some of the cheaper, lower-quality stuff can have toxic metals and such, and also a "fishy" taste...which I certainly do not want. Can anyone recommend a high-quality fish oil supplement?

Linda

abbynemmy 03-17-08 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nscrbug (Post 6359895)
+1 on the Glucosamine. I've noticed the biggest overall improvement since I started taking a Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM combo supplement (I use the triple-strength Osteo-Biflex brand) over 3 years ago. My knees aren't as creaky and crunchy as they used to be. It takes a good while (for me it was 2-3 months) before you feel the effects of it, but for me it was well worth having the patience. I plan on adding some type of Omega-3 fish oil supplement eventually because I've read that it has good anti-inflammatory properties (I have lower back issues), but am having a difficult time on deciding which brand to go with. I've heard/read that some of the cheaper, lower-quality stuff can have toxic metals and such, and also a "fishy" taste...which I certainly do not want. Can anyone recommend a high-quality fish oil supplement?

Linda

I take Hammer Nutritions Carlson Norwegian Salmon Oil.
http://www.hammernutrition.com/za/HN...MI=10130#info1
Randy

lutz 03-17-08 06:18 PM

I am taking fish oil and regular multi-vitamins.
Perhaps is sound stupid but I had the impression that the fish oil has a positive influence on the mood.

I have no experience with weight-loss supplements. Let us know if you find them helpful or not.

Mr. Beanz 03-17-08 06:20 PM

I take only a multivitamin. I don't understand taking supplements in order to aid riding.

If you suffer from inflammations, then you aren't training smart. If you ride 50 miles and suffer, you need to go down to 30 then gently work your way up in order to avoid further injuries.

If you suffer some health issues, like knee problems, then maybe you shouldn't be riding. If you are masking the issue with supplements, I would think you are only causing more damage in the long run.

As far as noticing improvements withinin 3 months, the same can be said about smart training.

Maybe I'm the only one that thinks this way, but I haven't suffered any knee or other injuries after years of riding and lifting weights.

Tom Stormcrowe 03-17-08 06:50 PM

Mr Beanz, supps like Glucosamine are beneficial, in that it causes your bone ends to secrete lubricants. This can be critical as we age. ;) I use it myself, since I have my 48 year old abused knees to deal with. It also assists in reparing the wear and tear damage through stimulating the regeneration of cartilage. This is also where the calcium I suggested comes in, and also the Ca+ is necessary for the cellular metabolism to operate and supplementation will help avoid the Osteopenia (Pre Osteoporosis condition due to Calcium leaching from the bones) that cyclists can develop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz (Post 6360777)
I take only a multivitamin. I don't understand taking supplements in order to aid riding.

If you suffer from inflammations, then you aren't training smart. If you ride 50 miles and suffer, you need to go down to 30 then gently work your way up in order to avoid further injuries.

If you suffer some health issues, like knee problems, then maybe you shouldn't be riding. If you are masking the issue with supplements, I would think you are only causing more damage in the long run.

As far as noticing improvements withinin 3 months, the same can be said about smart training.

Maybe I'm the only one that thinks this way, but I haven't suffered any knee or other injuries after years of riding and lifting weights.


Mr. Beanz 03-17-08 06:54 PM

48? Right behind you at 45 bud!:D

thaetviking 03-17-08 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz (Post 6360777)
I take only a multivitamin. I don't understand taking supplements in order to aid riding.

If you suffer from inflammations, then you aren't training smart. If you ride 50 miles and suffer, you need to go down to 30 then gently work your way up in order to avoid further injuries.

I do not suffer from inflammation from riding. Did I state that in my thread? No. Then do not assume.

Inflammation can mean a number of things: simple stuff from working out, arthritis, heart disease, etc. The sort of things that a clyde/athena is at risk for. Since a lot of us have carried around or are still carrying around a lot of weight then we need to do things to help our bodies heal and maybe correct some of the problems we have given ourselves. One way to do that is with supplements. We need to take supplements sometimes because our food sources do not contain these items.

I started taking some supplements because one of the strength trainers I read recommend them. If I decide to take something that will help fight the onset of cancer and heart disease don't rain on my parade. I had enough riding in the rain today :(

Do some research first then gripe.

Mr. Beanz 03-17-08 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaetviking (Post 6361206)
I do not suffer from inflammation from riding. Did I state that in my thread? No. Then do not assume.
Do some research first then gripe.


Geez! I just love the fact that you can not read anyother post than yourown. If you look one or two posts below yours, you will see that the other poster brought up the subject of creaky knees and other inflammatories.

You either have very poor reading comprehension or are blind. Thanks for reading all the posts before posting an smart@zz comment like you did! (removed)


Inflammation can mean a number of things: simple stuff from working out, arthritis, heart disease, etc. The sort of things that a clyde/athena is at risk for.

And the above statement is a copout for being weak. This is true for anyone, even the skinny guys. I think you need to do some research of yourown.

Wogster 03-17-08 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz (Post 6360771)
I am taking fish oil and regular multi-vitamins.
Perhaps is sound stupid but I had the impression that the fish oil has a positive influence on the mood.

I have no experience with weight-loss supplements. Let us know if you find them helpful or not.

B-12 is known is known as the "happy pill", however most multi-vitamins don't really have enough of any particular vitamin to be of much use, you need to know how much of each one your pill contains, and how much you need.

Another issue that many people don't look into is getting a blood test to see what you actually need, everyones diet and body are different, so folks that are deficient in one vitamin may have too much of another one, if your pill has a lot of one you already have enough of, and a small amount of one, your deficient on, then it's not going to help, Multi-vitamins tend to be designed based on what the manufacturer can get cheapestr, rather then what folks need most. You can also learn to listen to your body, something far too few people want to do. I think this is why so many folks have weight problems, if your brain determines your short on vitamin C, it may tell your brain that, if you take that as general hunger, and have a donut and coffee instead, then the need (and want) are still there, so you have two donuts instead, and are still wanting...... If instead you pass on the coffee shop, and have a glass of orange juice, then the body tells brain, okay need met, and the brain says, okay your satisfied.

Then again what do I know? It's just a theory, I feel like a banana, must be a little low on the potassium reserve.....

Neil_B 03-17-08 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe (Post 6360971)
Mr Beanz, supps like Glucosamine are beneficial, in that it causes your bone ends to secrete lubricants. This can be critical as we age. ;) I use it myself, since I have my 48 year old abused knees to deal with. It also assists in reparing the wear and tear damage through stimulating the regeneration of cartilage. This is also where the calcium I suggested comes in, and also the Ca+ is necessary for the cellular metabolism to operate and supplementation will help avoid the Osteopenia (Pre Osteoporosis condition due to Calcium leaching from the bones) that cyclists can develop.

Obviously this activity called "cycling" is exclusively for healthy people, Tom. I'm so glad we've been informed. :D

Neil_B 03-17-08 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaetviking (Post 6358617)
So I started a regiment of supplements everyday. On that i started to take was CLA tonalin. It is a linoleic acid that helps with inflammation. I noticed effects right away with it opening my nasal passages. They say as far as weight loss and muscle building goes it takes three months for you to start seeing the effects. I was wondering if any one else is taking it?

I have also started taking fish oil and glucosimine. Are there any other supplements that people could suggest? What has worked well for you?

I also use glucosimine - on Tom Stormcrowe's recommendation, in fact. I am currently taking fish oil on a trial basis - it was recommended to me by a roadie I'd trained with, but I'm hard-pressed to determine a benefit from it. I take a multivitamin, and niacin (B-3) to help elevate my HDL count.

Mr. Beanz 03-17-08 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Historian (Post 6362224)
Obviously this activity called "cycling" is exclusively for healthy people, Tom. I'm so glad we've been informed. :D


No, actually it's for people that would rather get out there and ride rather than talk about how many calories are burned at what time of day, what supplements make you strong, what diet can burn enoprmous amounts of fat. I've seen a few do some good but others just talk way too much with no action.

I don't talk about how smart I am when it comes to nutrition. I don't pretend to know what I'm talking about when I don't know squat. I don't pretend that fancy wheels are going to make me fast and light on my bike. I do what makes me strong like maybe 10% of these people. The rest are all talk and no training.

If they applied what they talk to their riding, they'd all be stringbeans.

What makes you strong is good hard work, not magic supplements and what time of day you eat or exercise. That's bull!

I'm not sure why you have such an inferiority complex. Nobody expects anything from you!

I've seen a girl with one leg do a century. I've seen a guy with one arm race. I've seen serious diabetics (thin guy) do centuries. They didn't whine about it. They quit talking and did it!

Neil_B 03-17-08 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wogsterca (Post 6362176)

Then again what do I know? It's just a theory, I feel like a banana, must be a little low on the potassium reserve.....

What does a banana feel like? :D

Sometimes you feel like a nut.... sometimes you don't. :D

And then there's the classic exchange from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

"Space travel is rather unpleasantly like being drunk."

"What's so unpleasant about being drunk?"

"Ask a glass of water."

OK, I'm done....

smilin buddha 03-18-08 04:54 AM

I started taking a Fish oil supplement and also backed it up with B12. I can say it helped my mood alot in the last few months.

bautieri 03-18-08 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaetviking (Post 6358617)
So I started a regiment of supplements everyday. On that i started to take was CLA tonalin. It is a linoleic acid that helps with inflammation. I noticed effects right away with it opening my nasal passages. They say as far as weight loss and muscle building goes it takes three months for you to start seeing the effects. I was wondering if any one else is taking it?

I have also started taking fish oil and glucosimine. Are there any other supplements that people could suggest? What has worked well for you?

So what exactly are your goals for these supplements? Are you looking for general wellness, muscle bulk, or weight loss? Some combination of the three?

Add a good multivitamin and your on the right track for general wellness.

Whey protein and Creatine for muscle bulk taken immediately after your workout.

Since the banning of Speed and Ephedra (in the US) weight loss supplements have been somewhat moot. I have heard good things about DREN but never really looked into it, supposedly its an appetite suppressant. For the most part weight loss supplements are a waste of money, any elevation to your metabolism they may claim could also be attained by a brief cardio workout.

Bau

Wogster 03-18-08 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Historian (Post 6362269)
What does a banana feel like? :D

Sometimes you feel like a nut.... sometimes you don't. :D

And then there's the classic exchange from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

"Space travel is rather unpleasantly like being drunk."

"What's so unpleasant about being drunk?"

"Ask a glass of water."

OK, I'm done....

Okay I felt like having a banana (which I did)......

The same book that described flying as throwing yourself at the ground and missing. I've read the book and seen the movie, I don't know what that author was smoking, because it seemed to wander more then a drunk on a drunken cow path......

Wogster 03-18-08 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bautieri (Post 6363407)
So what exactly are your goals for these supplements? Are you looking for general wellness, muscle bulk, or weight loss? Some combination of the three?

Add a good multivitamin and your on the right track for general wellness.

Whey protein and Creatine for muscle bulk taken immediately after your workout.

Since the banning of Speed and Ephedra (in the US) weight loss supplements have been somewhat moot. I have heard good things about DREN but never really looked into it, supposedly its an appetite suppressant. For the most part weight loss supplements are a waste of money, any elevation to your metabolism they may claim could also be attained by a brief cardio workout.

Bau

Weight loss pills should be avoided like the plague, while they suppress appetite, what happens when you quit taking them, your appetite returns even stronger, and you go from 220lbs to 180lbs to 240lbs.... Better is to learn how to eat properly, and change your eating habits. Then add a good exercise program to supplement that eating habit.

Neil_B 03-18-08 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wogsterca (Post 6363480)
Okay I felt like having a banana (which I did)......

The same book that described flying as throwing yourself at the ground and missing. I've read the book and seen the movie, I don't know what that author was smoking, because it seemed to wander more then a drunk on a drunken cow path......

The film was reportedly dreadful, and anyway the script was written after Adams passed. I took the Hitchhiker books as a parody of bad science fiction, and bad science fiction seems to wander all over the place.

thaetviking 03-18-08 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bautieri (Post 6363407)
So what exactly are your goals for these supplements? Are you looking for general wellness, muscle bulk, or weight loss? Some combination of the three?

Add a good multivitamin and your on the right track for general wellness.

Whey protein and Creatine for muscle bulk taken immediately after your workout.

Since the banning of Speed and Ephedra (in the US) weight loss supplements have been somewhat moot. I have heard good things about DREN but never really looked into it, supposedly its an appetite suppressant. For the most part weight loss supplements are a waste of money, any elevation to your metabolism they may claim could also be attained by a brief cardio workout.

Bau

Right now I am looking for wellness and weight loss. I get most of the bulk I am searching for from my strength training program. I have taken soy protein shakes post work out but I just kind of quit doing that for no paticular reason. It may come back into my diet again. It is more of a motivation thing. I have stayed away from creatine because I have no interest in it. I do not want the body builder look. I am just looking to get fit and toned.

For me it is not appetite suppression but keeping me from eating because I am bored. I am just terrible about that. Sugar is also my downfall. Yeah the Ephedra thing came some from some people taking way to much because they wanted results without work. Being overweight and taking a lot of something that speeds up the heart is not a good thing.

piper_chuck 03-18-08 08:02 AM

Hmmm, this thread has quite a bit of hostility.

My take on supplements is that they may work, and they may not. I've always been skeptical of them because most are backed by feelings rather than controlled studies. I'm also skeptical because many of the positive reports on them come not from the general public, but from people who stand to gain financially from them. When I do read reports from people who aren't connected to the supplement, it's quite common to hear them say essentially the same thing as the promoter. Many people want to believe...

So, if you think they will help you, and you have checked to be sure that they do not have any negative effects, go for it. Even if they don't actually do anything, just thinking they do (the placebo effect) might make you feel better. However, more important than any supplement is to eat a balanced diet, to establish and maintain a regular, and reasonable exercise plan, and to listen to your body.

thaetviking 03-18-08 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz (Post 6362096)
Geez! I just love the fact that you can not read anyother post than yourown. If you look one or two posts below yours, you will see that the other poster brought up the subject of creaky knees and other inflammatories.

You either have very poor reading comprehension or are blind. Thanks for reading all the posts before posting an smart@zz comment like you did! I think maybe the ASS is U, not ME.


Inflammation can mean a number of things: simple stuff from working out, arthritis, heart disease, etc. The sort of things that a clyde/athena is at risk for.

And the above statement is a copout for being weak. This is true for anyone, even the skinny guys. I think you need to do some research of yourown.

No I have read every post hear. You mention the other post after talking about inflamation in a different paragraph. Making it easy for someone to think you are talking about someone elses argument.

No I do not have poor reading comprehension. I have read Beowulf in Old English.

Is the my statement a cop out. Well I tell you what. When your attitude makes you as successful as this guy http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/charles.htm when it comes to training athletes then I will stop taking what he suggest and listen to you. Do you think he is week? How about the pro and elite amature athletes he has trained? He has his athletes take a number of supplements to help them achieve their goals. I am sure Lance took tons of supplements too.

If I take something that helps to get my body in better shape and does not harm it while doing so then do not worry about it. It sounds like you already have all the answers so there is no need for you to post here on this thread. You have lost your weight your way. Good for you. The same thing does not work for everyone.

Neil_B 03-18-08 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piper_chuck (Post 6363596)
Hmmm, this thread has quite a bit of hostility.

My take on supplements is that they may work, and they may not. I've always been skeptical of them because most are backed by feelings rather than controlled studies. I'm also skeptical because many of the positive reports on them come not from the general public, but from people who stand to gain financially from them. When I do read reports from people who aren't connected to the supplement, it's quite common to hear them say essentially the same thing as the promoter. Many people want to believe...

So, if you think they will help you, and you have checked to be sure that they do not have any negative effects, go for it. Even if they don't actually do anything, just thinking they do (the placebo effect) might make you feel better. However, more important than any supplement is to eat a balanced diet, to establish and maintain a regular, and reasonable exercise plan, and to listen to your body.

Agreed. Or, as they post around here, +1.

The fish oil I'm taking was a recommendation from a roadie who swears by it. By the time I've finished the bottle I should know if its had an effect.

piper_chuck 03-18-08 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaetviking (Post 6363625)
When your attitude makes you as successful as this guy http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/charles.htm when it comes to training athletes then I will stop taking what he suggest and listen to you. Do you think he is week? How about the pro and elite amature athletes he has trained? He has his athletes take a number of supplements to help them achieve their goals. I am sure Lance took tons of supplements too.

I know nothing about this guy other than reading a few pages on his web site. As with everything else on the internet, it's important to keep things in perspective. Of particular interest is that he has a business selling supplements. It's entirely possible that they really work, but when one profits in such a manner, it's fair to question the impartiality of his recommendations.


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