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Thread: Wheel Advice

  1. #1
    atop a blazing saddle idig's Avatar
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    Wheel Advice

    I'm currently right at 300lbs. I've been riding a Gary Fisher Big Sur with slicks for the past few years, but am ready to get back on a real road bike, or at least something closer to it. I do a lot of charity rides in the 40-50 mile range, and as many weekday miles as I can fit in (currently not enough, thus the 300lbs). I have a nice Serotta Colorado Legend that I bought on eBay a few years ago, and decided to see if my LBS could make it work for me. The LBS thought the frame would be fine, but we'd probably want to go with a beefier wheelset. I agreed with this, as every since I surpassed the 250lb mark, Ive had to be more concerned with wheel strength and durability. Stock road wheels generally let me know that they are struggling with the load. Unfortunately, the Serotta has very narrow chainstays, and moving to a wider rim just isn't an option with this bike, and the LBS did not feel comfortable recommending any 23mm rim for my needs.

    To allow for wider rims, I have decided to get a different frame, and I want to use the Campy Chorus 9-spd parts that are on the Serotta. The existing Campy hubs use 32 spokes. I am looking at the Salsa Casseroll or the Soma Smoothie ES for the frame, as both use 130mm rear spacing. My question is, can sturdy wheels that won't complain be built with my current hubs, or should I realistically consider something else?

    I already am going to have to resort to changing to long reach brakes, so I was hoping to avoid additional changes. If I have to swap out too many pieces, then I end up defeating the purpose of trying to use the existing Chorus group. At that point, I could consider frames with 135mm spacing, and all sorts of component possibilities.

    Are any of you fellow larger than life types rolling on 32-spoke wheels with standard road hubs? If so, what rims and tire sizes are you using?

  2. #2
    Big Ring Masher BikeDork02's Avatar
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    There have been a bizillion threads about this, but my recommendations or either the Velocity Deep V's or what I have for my training/backup wheels the Mavic Open Pro. (Best rim IMHO)

    *edit* Oh and I forgot, I use the Vittoria Rubino Pro or Diamante Pro. Just depends on the budget at the time I need a new tire
    -Road-2009 Trek Madone 5.5 PRO
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  3. #3
    atop a blazing saddle idig's Avatar
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    I did search before posting, and while there are indeed a bizillion threads about wheels for clydes, none really addresses my specific situation. 300lbs, 32-h Campy Chorus hubs (front and rear). Is anyone else in my weight class riding on wheels with these hubs or something similar (Record, Ultegra, Dura Ace, Centaur, etc)? I'll take all the rim suggestions I can get, but they aren't as helpful without the corresponding hub info.

    Thanks.

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    Big guy + many spokes = hapiness

    I'm currently at 295lbs. I have several bikes with a range of wheels. I ride mainly for fun and for transportation. I've never "raced", but I like seeing how far we can push each other when riding with friends. I say this just so you know where I'm coming from.

    For your situation, the best thing you could do is to get a 40 spoke wheelset built up around Phil Wood hubs. The extra spokes make a big difference in reliability and the tendency to stay true. A Phil cassette hub will set you back almost $400 bucks, but it sounds like you could swing it, based on what you've been riding. You also don't need to necessarily get a Phil hub, but I know that they make a 40 spoke hub. I think they could put a Campy freehub on there, but even if they couldn't, there are campy compatible cassettes available that have been milled to fit Shimano freehub bodies. As for the rim, I would recommend a Sun CR-18. They make them in 40 hole versions, they are double walled with eyelets, and will accommodate the 25-28 width tires that you should be riding on, and they are inexpensive. Mavic makes touring rims (don't know the current model number) that are of exceptional quality, but they will cost a bit more. Get those if you can swing it.

    For your front wheel, any 36 spoke (or maybe even 32 spoke) wheel built with a strong rim (again CR-18's are really underrated) will work. Front wheel are built symmetrically and are inherently stronger.

    For tires, I wouldn't recommend riding anything narrower than 700x25's. Anything smaller than that any you'll be giving yourself and your bike an unnecessary beating. Look for tires that can be inflated to 100+ psi. Do that and you will still have a fast tire. Panaracer Pasella's and Continental Ultra Gatorskins are two tires I've had good luck with in the 700x25-28 range. The Conti's in particular have been really great tires with good durability and a nice ride.

    Some folks may think that a 40 spoke setup is overkill. I can say from experience that my 40 spoke Phil Wood wheels have done much better for me than my 32 spoke Campy Veloce wheels. Especially if you are going to be training on them, go for the big wheels. The weight difference is not something that those of us in the 300lbs neighborhood should worrying about. They will serve you well

    Dave

  5. #5
    atop a blazing saddle idig's Avatar
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    Good advice. Thanks, Dave.

  6. #6
    Air
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    Check my sig - I've done a ton of research on hubs/wheels/etc...

    As for 32 spoke....depends how mechanical you are. If you don't mind truing every once in a while (like every few hundred miles) you *might* be OK. I'm running Mavic Aksiums with 20 bladed spokes. They're holding up much better than I thought they would but do go slightly out of true hammering over the potholed roads of NYC.

    Do not get CR-18's. See the links in my sig on 'De-evolution of a wheel' for advice from the mechs. Deep V's will take a beating so sayeth most of the Clydes round these parts

    According to Sheldon the hubs are really not worthy of as much concern as the rims, spacing, and spoke count.

    I'm 270 at the moment by the way.

  7. #7
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    I'm 220- 250 depending on training. Lat couple of years more like 240'ish. I have 32 h Ultegra hubs with 14,000 miles. Haven't had to touch them after the initial break in period. I think you'd be fine with 32 as long as they are Deep V's. I also run a 28 in the fornt, only cause I had the hub, no problems at all.

    I myself have tried OP's and had really bad luck with them in 32 holes. I couldn't get more than 4,000 out of them at 250 lbs., different builders, different shops.

    Also depends on who makes your wheels. Because someone works at a shop does not mean they are good! I had a V built at a high end pro shop. Had problems after 500 mmiles. I took it apart and rebuilt the wheel. Haven't had problems since.

    Had a V last less than 40 miles from another pro shop. And a V not last more than 200 miles from a third. I rebuilt them myself and haven't had any problems. So the builder has plenty to do with it! Keep that in mind.

    That's the reason I started building my own wheels. Paying pros to do the work with a 50% success rate sucked!
    Last edited by Mr. Beanz; 05-09-08 at 09:10 PM.

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    I've got to speak on rims a bit here.

    Everybody on these threads talk about Velocity Deep-V's like they magical. The truth of it is that the Deep-V's, while being a strong rim, sell alot because the look cool. If everyone was really interested in a strong wheel they would be going for Velocity's Dyad touring rims which are stronger and don't have such a aero profile (which incidentally is a bit of a pain for wheel building). But alas Dyad's don't come in lime green. If your going for style and want some colored rims, help yourself. By the way, I've seen colored (anodized) Mavic OpenPro's around as well.

    I've read mention of Mavic A719's which are just very well built rims. For one thing they are socketed which is rare nowadays. Sockets are like eyelets but better. If you don't know what sockets are, they are steel rings placed at the spoke holes to reinforce the rim. They main thing they do is help keep the spoke from pulling through the rim. Sockets connect not only to the inner wall of the rim, outer wall as well. This distribute the force of the spoke to both walls of the rim. This is one of many things that make Mavic touring rims nice. Incidentally, Deep-V's have neither eyelet or sockets but rather depend upon a large profile rim (translates to more material and weight) to provide strength. A719's are what I'd like to build with, but I've got to economize sometimes.

    Air previously posted not to get CR-18's without giving much reason (I followed his link and couldn't find what he was referring to). As I said before, if you've got the loot, go for the Mavic's. But the CR-18's are good rims. They are double walled with eyelets, the have nice welded seems and a good finish, and they are inexpensive. One criticism I would have of them is that there quality control in terms of trueness out of the box isn't as high as Mavic or Velocity. This has never be something that has kept me from building a good true finished wheel with them. I think they get a bad rap largely out of snobbery.

    Just a note to the fact that I put alot of weight on the subject of eyelets/sockets in this thread. This is of great importance to heavy riders. The more tension you can put on your spokes, the stronger of a wheel you will get. I've had spokes pull through the rim on some of the lighter (and sometimes but not always cheaper) rims/wheels I've ridden. Strong, reliable, low maintenance wheels for heavy riders need good rims.

    Dave

  9. #9
    Air
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesspam View Post
    Air previously posted not to get CR-18's without giving much reason (I followed his link and couldn't find what he was referring to). As I said before, if you've got the loot, go for the Mavic's. But the CR-18's are good rims. They are double walled with eyelets, the have nice welded seems and a good finish, and they are inexpensive. One criticism I would have of them is that there quality control in terms of trueness out of the box isn't as high as Mavic or Velocity. This has never be something that has kept me from building a good true finished wheel with them. I think they get a bad rap largely out of snobbery.
    http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=298310 - Rear deraileur rubbing - bad tension? [new 5-14-07]
    http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=342373 - Bombproof 27" Rims [new 9-10-07]
    http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=338555 - Spokes Rant [new 9-10-07]
    http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=349283 - Shot Rims and Clyde Recommendations? [new 10-1-08]
    http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=349519 - Deep V vs Dyad vs Mavic Opens [new 10-3-07]
    http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=352240 - Friction Shifters
    http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=355089 - Hubs
    http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=355761 - ****Hubs for Clydes from the Mechanics forum****

    From the Shot Rim thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by BikeWise1 View Post
    As a wheelbuilder who has built hundreds of pairs of wheels, there is no way I would spec a CR18 for you. That is one the softest, and most flexible rims out there. Your choices in a 27" rim are limited, though. Perhaps were it properly built, tensioned, and stress-relieved, it could work if ridden conscientiously. My advice would be to, if at all possible, use a long reach brake and go 700c. Use a triangulated rim such as the Velocity Dyad and have it built with butted spokes.

    The situation you've described speaks of a wheel that was inadequate from minute one. A properly built wheel should need no follow-up attention. The stress releiving should be done by the builder so that the wheel "stands". That is, everything is equilibrated so that no reasonable amount of use will put the thing out of true. Also, a wheelbuilder without a tensiometer is like a doctor without a thermometer. Close don't get it.

    <shakes head> A CR-18 for a clyde....what is the world coming to....

  10. #10
    Senior Member jaxgtr's Avatar
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    Hubs are not and issues. Pick what you want and get some rims and have them built by a good builder. I have the Deep V's with Ultegra and they are solid.
    Brian | 2013 Cannondale SuperSix 5 | 2014 Trek CrossRip Comp | 2003 Trek 7300
    Quote Originally Posted by AEO View Post
    you should learn to embrace change, and mock it's failings every step of the way.

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