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Old 05-12-08, 08:07 AM   #51
Neil_B
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Trek is not the Microsoft of the biking world, not even close, for several reasons:

* Trek, while fairly big in the US, is small in Canada and a few other countries, very small in a bunch of others and non-existent every where else. Microsoft is dominant just about everywhere (although that is changing).
* Trek needs to compete with about 50 other companies, even in the US, some being almost if not the same size, Microsoft has 3-4 competitors and they are all much much smaller.
* Trek bikes are actually pretty good, now take Microsoft Vista, somebody please take Vista and put it out of it's misery, (Before I upgraded to Ubuntu (Linux) I kept wanting to do this ->.. )

As for the Surly, remember it started out as just a frame and fork, and the dealer built it up, making for a semi-custom bike, meaning you could get any components you wanted on it. While you can get one that is built up by the factory now, I expect that they determined what components to use through what people were commonly building them up with, rather then what the factory could get lots of, cheap.
If we are looking for the Microsoft of the cycling world, I'd suggest Pacific (owner of Schwinn and many Wal-mart brands) and Dorel (the new owner of Cannondale) as better candidates. And Specialized seems about as large and as well-known as Trek.
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Old 05-12-08, 08:11 AM   #52
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As for the Surly, remember it started out as just a frame and fork, and the dealer built it up, making for a semi-custom bike, meaning you could get any components you wanted on it. While you can get one that is built up by the factory now, I expect that they determined what components to use through what people were commonly building them up with, rather then what the factory could get lots of, cheap.
The Surley LHT is sold by the much-bashed Bikes Direct, the same folks who sell the Windsor Tourist. The Surley business model isn't based on exclusivity, it seems.
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Old 05-12-08, 08:13 AM   #53
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While Trek may be huge, one thing to keep in mind about the 520 is that it's actually built in Wisconsin. The frame is, that is, I'm sure the majority of the other components are built somewhere in asia.. but hey, whaddyaget!

Also, the 520 felt much "sportier" to me as well, and I commented on that. The LBS pointed out that the 520 has 700x32 RaceLite slicks (which from my 7.3 FX experience, are VERY fast rolling tires) that hold 110psi vs the LHT's 700x37 90 psi semi-slicks. Tires being equal, I'd imagine the gap on the "sluggish" field would close .

Also, Neil B - the change in Cannondale is sad. I've noticed that they've introduced some (very) low-end bikes that really shouldn't have the name on them. I remember even two years ago when I first started cycling, when every Cannondale was still handmade in the US. Not so much anymore
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Old 05-12-08, 08:15 AM   #54
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The Surley LHT is sold by the much-bashed Bikes Direct, the same folks who sell the Windsor Tourist. The Surley business model isn't based on exclusivity, it seems.
Bikesdirect gets a undue bad rap, IMO. My cycling buddy has, well, he has one of each of their high end bikes (Dura-Ace, SRAM Force and Campy Record). They are very gorgeous bikes, and he's a huge fan of them. He also owns half the Salsa lineup (not joking) and a couple gorgeous Bianchis, so I'm guessing he has room to judge . The Windsor Tourist was on my list as well, but got put off because I was ready to pay for tougher components.
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Old 05-12-08, 08:44 AM   #55
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Now comes the fun part... finding a Surly LHT to test-ride. There are no dealers in NJ I can find that stock them. Not too much of a surprise, it is a touring bike. Nothing wrong with getting the Trek 520, but I hate to think I might be missing out on something here because I'm in a rush.

Arrgh! Anyone here in NJ ride an LHT?
Neil,

There's also the Surly Long Haul Trucker & Cross-Check Owners Group google group, there may be someone on there that might be in NJ and willing to give you a test ride.

And not to beat a dead horse, but I love mine.
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Old 05-12-08, 08:52 AM   #56
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While Trek may be huge, one thing to keep in mind about the 520 is that it's actually built in Wisconsin. The frame is, that is, I'm sure the majority of the other components are built somewhere in asia.. but hey, whaddyaget!

Also, the 520 felt much "sportier" to me as well, and I commented on that. The LBS pointed out that the 520 has 700x32 RaceLite slicks (which from my 7.3 FX experience, are VERY fast rolling tires) that hold 110psi vs the LHT's 700x37 90 psi semi-slicks. Tires being equal, I'd imagine the gap on the "sluggish" field would close .

Also, Neil B - the change in Cannondale is sad. I've noticed that they've introduced some (very) low-end bikes that really shouldn't have the name on them. I remember even two years ago when I first started cycling, when every Cannondale was still handmade in the US. Not so much anymore
Interesting point. The John Schubert article in Adventure Cyclist I've quoted recommended the Cannondale touring bikes over the Trek 520 because the C-dales were aluminum and because they were American-made. The 520 might not be made in the US any longer.
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Old 05-12-08, 08:54 AM   #57
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Bikesdirect gets a undue bad rap, IMO. My cycling buddy has, well, he has one of each of their high end bikes (Dura-Ace, SRAM Force and Campy Record). They are very gorgeous bikes, and he's a huge fan of them. He also owns half the Salsa lineup (not joking) and a couple gorgeous Bianchis, so I'm guessing he has room to judge . The Windsor Tourist was on my list as well, but got put off because I was ready to pay for tougher components.
I agree. I've seen a Windsor Tourist up close, and a Motobacane. Both were good bikes, but the second one had some of the ugliest welding I've ever seen.
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Old 05-12-08, 09:43 AM   #58
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The Specialized Globe...
IIRC, someone on the Touring Forum set up his Globe for short tours. I don't recall who, or when he posted, but it might be worth searching for.
Thanks, I did the search and found a few discussions.
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Old 05-12-08, 09:49 AM   #59
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Allright, my LBS has no Trek 520s in stock and can't get any in until late July. No Surly dealers in NJ have a LHT in stock.
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Old 05-12-08, 09:58 AM   #60
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Allright, my LBS has no Trek 520s in stock and can't get any in until late July. No Surly dealers in NJ have a LHT in stock.

Have you tried Trophy Bikes in Philly? They are a big Surly dealer, their website says they have some LHT's in stock...
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Old 05-12-08, 10:09 AM   #61
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Allright, my LBS has no Trek 520s in stock and can't get any in until late July. No Surly dealers in NJ have a LHT in stock.
Bikes Direct might be an option. BTW, I am not a shill for them.
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Old 05-12-08, 10:22 AM   #62
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Bikes don't have a "Blue Book", and it was your primary means of transportation. You might get more than you think.
I just settled an insurance claim for an accident 3 yrs ago, I faxed them the receipts for the bike I got hit on, and the bike I replaced it with, and they wound up paying me for the replacement bike (which was a bit pricier). Whatever happens, don't settle the medical side until you give all the (body) parts some time to shake out and settled down, tough to say when a chiropractor situation might emerge.
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Old 05-12-08, 10:24 AM   #63
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The hospital is planning on billing their insurance company. As to replacing the bike... well, it was 20 years old, so if I get a few hundred I'll be lucky. I'll get reimbursed for what I can, and get the helmet replaced, of course. (That will be my third helmet this year.)
First off I am glad to hear you were not seriously injured. If you banged up your shoulder it will probably hut a bunch the 1st week, and then the pain will start to fade nicely the 2nd week. By the 3rd week you hopefully will be pain free. Good luck on your recovery.

At least in NY state you get replacement of your damaged goods, and unlike cars, they don't do a blue book lookup and give you current value. When I got hit last year my 28 year old bike was replaced with a Gary Fischer Nirvanna. The insurance folks didn't bat an eye at the $500 price tag. I also had to buy new rack, fenders and some other parts to get about the same setup a before. In total there was about $1000 worth of stuff I had to replace including clothing. That was probably 1/3 the cost of having the drivers' hood and front bumper repaired and repainted.

Good luck,
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Old 05-12-08, 10:25 AM   #64
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I just settled an insurance claim for an accident 3 yrs ago, I faxed them the receipts for the bike I got hit on, and the bike I replaced it with, and they wound up paying me for the replacement bike (which was a bit pricier). Whatever happens, don't settle the medical side until you give all the (body) parts some time to shake out and settled down, tough to say when a chiropractor situation might emerge.
Good advice. I've actually got some time for that - a few years.
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Old 05-12-08, 11:08 AM   #65
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Yes, years is good. I see I didn't word that carefully. I just (a month ago) settled ... for an accident *from* 3 yrs ago. I've had a pretty smooth year-plus before settling so am happy enough that everything's about where it's gonna be now.
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Old 05-12-08, 04:03 PM   #66
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The insurance company left a message - they're not liable for the damage to my bike because I was riding in the shoulder. I could have sworn cyclists were supposed to do that.

Does anyone know the NJ vehicle code that either allows or prohibits this? I did a search at http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/ and the code it mostly seems to concern itself with mopeds and motorized bikes.
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Old 05-12-08, 04:18 PM   #67
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THeir insurance company or yours?
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Old 05-12-08, 07:05 PM   #68
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Neil,

As a new member here and a fellow resident of good ol' Edison I wish you well in your recovery and getting the insurance resolved.

I'm not a lawyer but I would interpret the following as supporting bicycles being allowed to operate on the shoulder of a road. From http://www.nj.gov/transportation/com...gulations.shtm


"39:4-14.2, 39:4-10.11 Operating Regulations.
Every person riding a bicycle on a roadway shall ride as near to the right roadside as practicable exercising due care when passing a standing vehicle or one proceeding in the same direction. A bicyclist may move left under any of the following conditions: 1) To make a left turn from a left turn lane or pocket; 2) To avoid debris, drains, or other hazardous conditions on the right; 3) To pass a slower moving vehicle; 4) To occupy any available lane when traveling at the same speed as other traffic; 5) To travel no more than two abreast when traffic is not impeded, but otherwise ride in single file. Every person riding a bicycle should ride in the same direction as vehicular traffic."


I would interpret the use of the term "roadside" to include the shoulder. So as long as the shoulder was free of debris or obstructions it would seem to me that's where you should have been riding.


Perhaps the insurance company is not reading past the law stating "bicyclist must obey all state and local automobile driving laws". After all, it is illegal for a car to ride on the shoulder, but a bicycle has a special restriction to be as for right as possible, "near to the right roadside".

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Old 05-12-08, 07:53 PM   #69
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THeir insurance company or yours?
Yeah that's my question too. From the point of view of you going to their insurance, your property damage is your property damage wherever it was located. Would they not pay if their driver went through a house because the house was not in the center of a travel lane?
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Old 05-12-08, 08:37 PM   #70
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First very glad to hear you are ok that's the most important thing. Sounds like the insurance is trying to make you go away. You may need to get tough, don't back down to an adjuster they get paid to settle claims as cheaply as possible. I hate to say it you may want to think about a consult with a lawyer. Get a copy of the accident report and pull together any other documentation (repair/replacement estimate, original receipts etc) that you have before paying a visit. You need to convince the insurance company it's going to be much cheaper for the insurance to cover your bike than to draw this out. Also don't let the insurance company tie your settlement for the bike to your settlement for injuries they should be handled separately. If all of that fails there is always small claims court.

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Old 05-12-08, 08:41 PM   #71
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Uffdah, this is why I always recommend engaging a lawyer whenever dealing with an insurance company. After being involved in an accident that was so clearly the fault of the other friver that a lawyer who normally never works off percentage agreed to waive a retainer. I had to engage the lawyer because suddenly, after initally being VERY cooperative they clammed up, then left "THE MESSAGE". Come to find out this is after they discovered I had a passenger, and that she got hurt pretty darn bad.

A year and a half later, after nearly going broke paying med bills out of my own pocket, they started throwing money at me to settle. Seems the guy, who hadn't had a valid license since the mid 90s, got into another similar accident.

Anyway, from experience, when they start playing that game they don't stop for awile. Good luck, what a horrible ordeal.
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Old 05-13-08, 05:51 AM   #72
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Additional information:

Neil F. was on the shoulder of the road.

Rt. 27 is a single lane road.

The accident took place in a parking lot entrance.
On the shoulder in front of a parkign lot entrance (it was to my right when the accident happened).
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Old 05-13-08, 07:26 AM   #73
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From my view and and as I understood the earlier discussion, Niel F. had the right of way.

Regardless if he had a bike or baby stroller, the van turning must make sure the lane turning onto is clear.

Shoulder, sidewalk, or roadway are the same in my view.

It would seem the insurance company does have only one view of the events.

@Niel F. - Did you obtain names of any witnesses, or others that assisted you. I would not be surprised if no one stopped, disappointed actually.
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Old 05-13-08, 07:37 AM   #74
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Here's where it gets more fun. Note that I had an education in insurance due to my incident thanks to a really awesome insurance adjuster on my side, and a really awesome lawyer. Basically what an adjuster does after an accident is twofold. First they assess the damage to all parties involved, then come up with an estimate of what it will cost to settle the incident for all parties. They then determine based partially upon a schedule, and partially upon their experience what the percentage of fault is for each party involved. They then compare the percentage of fault to the amount of damages, and what it will cost to fight any Responsible Parties. After this they determine if they should settle, and then if they should fight it - at which point they determine how long they should fight it based upon amounts and the percentage of fault. Finally they notify all parties of their decision, then prepare to back it up.

Unfortunately Neil, in your case, they're going to fight. I'm a GEICO customer and love them, but also know that they are huge sticklers about paying out. They're also a Berkshire company, so I get a nice discount with them, which adds to the love.. but I'd absolutely never want to fight them.

I'd suggest you engage a lawyer, but get a good one. The really good ones are known by the insurance companies, and tend to scare them into submission. Generally what happens is that they'll deny a claim or start to play hardball, but the second you get a lawyer they change their tune. They want to scare you into submission and avoid playing the claim, OR (and in this case, more likely) they are just erroneous in their assumption of NJ traffic laws and need a wake-up call.

Again, I hate to see you go through this. Insurance companies are NEVER your friend, I've learned this over some really hard times thanks to one. From now on, and heaven hope I never have to do this, but if I'm ever involved in any kind of accident I'm going straight to a lawyer before ever dealing with a insurance representative - mine or other.
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Old 05-17-08, 08:42 PM   #75
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Posted in memory of Neil F's late bike:



You were a pain to get into and out of my car, and you weighed a ton, but both Neil's loved you. RIP.
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