MTB Road Bike
06-24-08, 09:39 AM
#26
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My old rigid steel mountain bike is pretty similar in weight to my steel road bike.
But my aluminum frame modern road bike is at least five pounds lighter.
I think the rigid MTB is much more versatile. A simple tire change can convert from road, to trail, to single track bike.
But my aluminum frame modern road bike is at least five pounds lighter.
I think the rigid MTB is much more versatile. A simple tire change can convert from road, to trail, to single track bike.
06-24-08, 01:23 PM
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Say what you will, but I can easily ride my road bike 30% farther than my slick-tired mountain bike at an average speed that's about 20% higher.https://forum.220magazine.com/tm.asp?m=713
- where the riders found they lost about 5 minutes in an hour compared to a dedicated triath bike. And here's the Bicycle Performance Calculator -
https://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
- where you'll find about the same sort of speed difference, using the standard equations most big bike companies use for performance modeling.
Bike speed, given constant power and a good surface, is about rolling resistance and aerodynamics. The first comes almost solely from tyre quality, and the second from how low and close together the rider's hands are.
I knew someone who fixed up a Stumpjumper as singlespeed trainer with bullhorns, btw. Except on descents that could spin him out he actually found it was faster than his very high end Italian racing bike. I think the 26's and pursuit bars reduced his wind resistance just a little bit more than drops. The bike was just as fast when he used a long stem and regular handlebars, btw - he admitted preferring the pursuits mostly for looks.
06-24-08, 03:34 PM
#28
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Here's a thread on people's actual results using a decently set-up MTB for triathlon racing -
Bike speed, given constant power and a good surface, is about rolling resistance and aerodynamics. The first comes almost solely from tyre quality, and the second from how low and close together the rider's hands are.
Wikipedia has a great article on rolling resistance. Reading it might help you understand why high-pressure 700c road tires have less rolling resistance than 26" MTB slicks. If you know of a high-pressure (100+ psi) 26" MTB tire, I'd be happy to give it a try for 500-600 miles and let you know if it makes a difference in the way the MTB performs. Also agree that aerodynamics play an important part in the efficiency of the bike. My MTB has a pretty generic flat handlebar, while the road bike has a pretty generic drop handlebar. The bar on the road bike positions my hands closer together and lower than the MTB handle bar. Again, this would seem to support the idea that the road bike is the more efficient machine... just as my experience seems to suggest.
Now, if you're arguing that I could put 700x28 wheels/tires and a drop bar on the MTB and make it just as efficient at the road bike, you may very well be right.
06-24-08, 05:11 PM
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But onto the actual point. My craptacular road bike with 4 working gears, a slightly too small frame and 700cx23 on is far faster than my mtb with 1.35" slicks pumped to 80psi. It screams up hills where I'd usually sit back and spin on my mtb and doing a metric century on my mtb was not pleasant.
As I should be buying a cyclocross bike this summer I'll be able to compare 700cx19-23 against 700cx45 and on the same frame, should give a good indication of the difference tyres make.
Last edited by daintonj; 06-24-08 at 05:14 PM.
06-24-08, 05:49 PM
#30
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But onto the actual point. My craptacular road bike with 4 working gears, a slightly too small frame and 700cx23 on is far faster than my mtb with 1.35" slicks pumped to 80psi. It screams up hills where I'd usually sit back and spin on my mtb and doing a metric century on my mtb was not pleasant.
06-24-08, 08:23 PM
#31
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Everyone thank you for taking this thread serious. I have learned a lot.
Since I will not look into going 40 miles per trip, I will consider upgrading my MTB tires, and consider a real road bike like the Trek with flat handlebars if I outgrow my MTB's gears. I do appreciate all the thoughtful recommendations I received for pro and con roadie MTBs! Louisiana is flat, so no downhill rides are happening soon. I think the levee does have some decline which is not noticeable to the human eye, but pedaling one way is easier than pedaling the other way.
I also learned today that City Park in New Orleans has bike trails, which is news to me! But I'd have to buy a bike rack and drive my SUV to City Park just to ride them
Since I will not look into going 40 miles per trip, I will consider upgrading my MTB tires, and consider a real road bike like the Trek with flat handlebars if I outgrow my MTB's gears. I do appreciate all the thoughtful recommendations I received for pro and con roadie MTBs! Louisiana is flat, so no downhill rides are happening soon. I think the levee does have some decline which is not noticeable to the human eye, but pedaling one way is easier than pedaling the other way.
I also learned today that City Park in New Orleans has bike trails, which is news to me! But I'd have to buy a bike rack and drive my SUV to City Park just to ride them
06-24-08, 08:35 PM
#32
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If you believe Sheldon Brown you should go with a full slick. I, personally, have crashed while riding slick tires across wet pavement so I tend to buy tires with siping. I'm currently running the Forte City ST 26"x1.5 tire from Performance Bike. The ride is a bit harsh, so I'll probably look for a wider tire when it's time to replace them. Maybe a Schwalbe Big Apple, Michelin City Pilot, etc.
BTW, don't mistake a semi-knobby tire for a semi-slick tire! Big difference in terms of the amount of pedaling effort. I have a set of WTB All Terrainasaurus tires that I use on gravel paths and hard-packed dirt roads. WTB will tell you that they have low rolling resistance, but my legs would argue they're much harder to push around on the road than the Forte City ST...
BTW, don't mistake a semi-knobby tire for a semi-slick tire! Big difference in terms of the amount of pedaling effort. I have a set of WTB All Terrainasaurus tires that I use on gravel paths and hard-packed dirt roads. WTB will tell you that they have low rolling resistance, but my legs would argue they're much harder to push around on the road than the Forte City ST...
I am also in luck. I found a local bike parts store that carries both big apple and brooks saddles!
06-24-08, 08:54 PM
#33
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Ok...
1. Try bikes until you find one that lets you sit in the position you like! Don't worry if it is a 26 MTB or 700c hybrid.
2. This bit is very important - make sure that the bike can run wide tyres! Tyres are still the most effective suspension system for bikes. Don't be cheap either. In your case I'd compromise a little speed for comfort and choose something like Schwalbe Kojaks or Marathon Supremes at least, and real balloons like Big Apples would be better again. Don't make the mistake of thinking fast tyres have to be narrow - VERY fast tyres do; but wide tyres can get all but the last edge of speed if they are made from a low rolling resistance material.
4. Consider a suspension seat post, especially if you decide to go for a 700c bike. Big tyres work better though.
6. Seats aren't so much good or bad as personal - different seats work for different people.
This would make an MTB have more parts in common with a road racer, but it wouldn't do anything to address the OP's needs - which are an upright bike with cushioning. (Your scheme also wouldn't be an effective way of speeding up the MTB; slicks, a longer stem set lower, and different chain rings would do better there.)
I am going to check out those big apples soon.
I did consider a suspension seat post, but I asked about it here and it wasn't a popular topic. https://www.bikeforums.net/clydesdales-athenas-200-lb-91-kg/432610-thudbuster-recomendations.html I like the idea of the brooks saddle with springs too and the thudbuster also looked good on the cane creek website, but not a lot of forum members would vouch for it. B-67 and the B17 with springs are two I am curious of. If I got a suspension seatpost, I might have a different view on saddles. Thank you for remembering my needs in your posts. I am looking for something upright, comfortable, and safe first; and speed and fun to ride second (but speed and fun is still important)
06-24-08, 09:55 PM
#34
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This mistakes personal taste for a universal rule - probably more people hate drops than hate flats. And the few people who think that straights are inherently uncomfortable generally those who haven't found a flat bar that fits them. Usually the bar is too wide, and they haven't realized they can can cut it down with a few minutes work with a hacksaw or pipe cutter...
Another point to consider re drops is that you usually ride on the hoods on drops. This is a lousy position for hard braking. Most roadies never realize this because they never learn to brake hard.
Again: you're talking about 230lb total weight compared to 225lb total weight. Doesn't sound much of a difference now, does it? It hardly matters in a climb, and not at all on the flat.
So don't buy an MTB with this problem. Otoh, a lot of road racing bikes not only can't take fenders unless fitted with 23mm knife blade tyres, they also have frames so short that the front wheel can eat the riders foot if he pedals and turns hard at the same time.
Which doesn't suit road racing, but can be ideal for commuting. And anyway, the shop can change it for you in a few minutes.
This would make an MTB have more parts in common with a road racer, but it wouldn't do anything to address the OP's needs - which are an upright bike with cushioning. (Your scheme also wouldn't be an effective way of speeding up the MTB; slicks, a longer stem set lower, and different chain rings would do better there.)
This is bigger nonsense. A drop handled racer actually handles really poorly at real commute speeds and tasks - emergency stops, good rider vision, turning at 15mph. Which isn't surprising because racing bikes aren't designed to do any of these things. Rigid trail bikes are.
And I can't even guess how any of what you wrote relates to the needs of a rider who needs lots of cushioning and an upright position - talking him into riding a bike with a stretched out flat position and thin tyres because that's the sort fo bike you like is bizarre. If you want him on a drop handle you could have at least explained how to find one that can run wide tyres, and how to size one so that the drops can go higher than usual to get the riding position he needs.
Another point to consider re drops is that you usually ride on the hoods on drops. This is a lousy position for hard braking. Most roadies never realize this because they never learn to brake hard.
Again: you're talking about 230lb total weight compared to 225lb total weight. Doesn't sound much of a difference now, does it? It hardly matters in a climb, and not at all on the flat.
So don't buy an MTB with this problem. Otoh, a lot of road racing bikes not only can't take fenders unless fitted with 23mm knife blade tyres, they also have frames so short that the front wheel can eat the riders foot if he pedals and turns hard at the same time.
Which doesn't suit road racing, but can be ideal for commuting. And anyway, the shop can change it for you in a few minutes.
This would make an MTB have more parts in common with a road racer, but it wouldn't do anything to address the OP's needs - which are an upright bike with cushioning. (Your scheme also wouldn't be an effective way of speeding up the MTB; slicks, a longer stem set lower, and different chain rings would do better there.)
This is bigger nonsense. A drop handled racer actually handles really poorly at real commute speeds and tasks - emergency stops, good rider vision, turning at 15mph. Which isn't surprising because racing bikes aren't designed to do any of these things. Rigid trail bikes are.
And I can't even guess how any of what you wrote relates to the needs of a rider who needs lots of cushioning and an upright position - talking him into riding a bike with a stretched out flat position and thin tyres because that's the sort fo bike you like is bizarre. If you want him on a drop handle you could have at least explained how to find one that can run wide tyres, and how to size one so that the drops can go higher than usual to get the riding position he needs.
Your assuming that the only road bikes are racing bikes, which is common amongst those who don't know about road touring bikes or cyclocross bikes, which other then possibly the issue of emergency braking, suffer none of the issues you raise as being problems. Then again, it doesn't take much to drop from the hoods to mid bar to haul on the brake levers if one needs to stop in an emergency.
Probably for all purpose, a hybrid or cyclocross would be better then a MTB or a road bike, especially if one needs to be in an upright position, as many MTB's also have the bars quite low.
06-24-08, 10:06 PM
#35
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I have a Trek 7.7 FX flat bar road bike, and it's a great bike, but I have to tell ya, the flat bar gets fuggin old fast. If flat bars are so great, you'd see them in the Tour de France. Drop handlebars are the only way to go. 
06-24-08, 10:12 PM
#36
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I won't disagree with you Richards Rides but dropped handle bars won't work for me, unless I choose to go with a surgery.
06-24-08, 11:18 PM
#37
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I really enjoyed reading Sheldon Brown's website. this week. I learned a ton from him! However I am really unsure on the full slick idea though. I wiped out on one when I was a kind in the rain, but then again who hasn't wiped out in the rain? Those big Apples mentioned earlier in this forum looked attractive to me, I wonder if they are more slippery when wet than the knobbies?
I am also in luck. I found a local bike parts store that carries both big apple and brooks saddles!
I am also in luck. I found a local bike parts store that carries both big apple and brooks saddles!
06-24-08, 11:33 PM
#38
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Your assuming that the only road bikes are racing bikes, which is common amongst those who don't know about road touring bikes or cyclocross bikes, which other then possibly the issue of emergency braking, suffer none of the issues you raise as being problems. Then again, it doesn't take much to drop from the hoods to mid bar to haul on the brake levers if one needs to stop in an emergency.
06-25-08, 11:37 AM
#39
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I can definately clamp down on my Sora STIs while riding on the hoods and stop as quickly as would be possible in the drops. Also, when my MTB was my only bike, I needed taller gearing on a regular basis. Wasn't unusual to spend most of a ride in the higest gear I had and wanting to go higher.
The basic thought here, that a MTB can be converted into a road bike, is true. Just as a Jeep can be made into a dragster. Just don't expect it to still serve you well off road.
For me, my road bikes are for the road and my MTB is for the trails. If I wanted a road bike without drops, I'd go with a flat bar road bike as it wouldn't require modification to make it serve the purpose.
The basic thought here, that a MTB can be converted into a road bike, is true. Just as a Jeep can be made into a dragster. Just don't expect it to still serve you well off road.
For me, my road bikes are for the road and my MTB is for the trails. If I wanted a road bike without drops, I'd go with a flat bar road bike as it wouldn't require modification to make it serve the purpose.
