CliftonGK1

No worries. I've been backpacking for quite a while, and I've tried just about every packable stove variant there is.


3-4 empties for a week? Sheesh! Do you tour with Wolfgang Puck? I've spent a week in the backcountry and only brought 1 isobutane canister for my Pocket Rocket. When you're only running it for 5 minutes at a time to boil water for a meal, the fuel lasts way longer than a day and a half. Even on "gourmet" weekends where I've run my stove for up to 15 minutes per meal (twice a day) I've only needed a single canister for a 3 day trip.

cyccommute 

Again, don't discount propane so quickly. Screw the head onto the tank, open a valve and ignite. If you move really slow it might take 30 seconds It boils as quickly - if not quicker - than white gas and is far easier to control. With a piezo electric igniter, there's not even a need to carry matches. Pop it and it starts.

bdinger

+100 on the Pocket Rocket. Below freezing it can be "iffy", but it rocks for everything beyond that.

lil brown bat

Esbit stove.

Open stove.
Set up windscreen.
Light fuel tab.
Place pot on stove.

No bottles or moving parts involved.

Wogster

I'm going by my brother-in-laws Coleman, part of it's him, he is one of those who likes to cook like at home (although he never actually cooks at home -- go figure), You should see the gear he takes for a weekend long trip, fills the entire space inside his car (a Crown Victoria).

For me, I would want some coffee and gruel in the morning, and that's about it, I would also like a fairly leisurely pace, with less then 4 hours a day of saddle time, this gives one the option of starting later, taking ones time breaking camp, riding for a couple of hours, maybe taking a side trip if I see something I want to photograph or expore. Taking a butt break rather then a lunch break, lunch being the occasional hand full of GORP through out the day. Supper might be pasta or boil in the bag type stuff, or going up the road to a diner, I saw along the way. So even on an alcohol stove, boiling water takes about 30-45ml of fuel, so say 100ml per day, so a 1L bottle that is 80% full, would be enough for about 8 days, fuel bottles should never be filled to the brim. MSR recommends 114ml for their white gas stoves per person, per day, so same bottle, filled to the same capacity would be good for 7 days. The bottle, full weighs about 1kg, propane canisters run about 350g, so same 7-8 days would need at least 3 cartridges, total weight 1.05kg. Where there is a weigh saving is that the alki stove weighs about 50g, the white gas (MSR Whisperlite) about 305g, propane (MSR Pocket Rocket) in between at 85g.

plumberroy

With the little home made alcohol stove or the brasslite stove I agree with you. You will need more stove if you plan on anything but the dehydrated back pack meals. The trangia and swedish surplus alcohol stoves are different I have fried fish on a trangia stove. I have cooked a squirrel down to where I could pull the meat off the bones with the swedish surplus stove. msr make great stoves but the liquid stove are loud and you just can't walk into any hardware and find fuel for the canister stoves. If you are just going for a couple days to a week the inexpensive one burner propane work pretty good If I were on a tight budget I would go with the swedish surplus alcohol stove or a century trail scout one burner propane if you can spend $100 for a stove there are a lot of neat options out there look on ebay under camping stoves

Wogster

Just wonder about finding fuel in less then heavily populated areas..... Had a toy steam engine when I was a kid, ran on those tabs, they lasted a fair amount of time, per tab, and could be blown out, and later re-lit.

Wogster

What's the run time on the Triangia, and how much is the fuel capacity?

plumberroy

I can't find a listed capacity or burn time. alcohol burns about 15 minutes per oz. Measuring and doing the math shows the burner to hold about 3 oz I have heated tea, got water boiling for cous cous and fried a smallmouth with one filling, the swedish surplus stoves has a bigger burner and the math says they hold around 5 oz I boiled a squirrel for 45 minutes with one of those . Once in a while we "coyote camp" you get a tarp, wool blanket, string, simple stove and pan, cup,spoon, lighter, food wise tea and sugar salt and pepper cous cous or minute rice maybe a little flour. anything else you eat you scrounge out of the woods

Wogster

I assume by oz you mean US fluid ounces? Which would be about 88ml, for a 45 minute burn time, that's not bad, now I just need to find one, and get a price on it, okay MEC has the smaller one for $72 for the kit, and $78 for the larger one..... Might still see about building a cat can or soda can stove, but see about making it a little larger then usual.....

plumberroy

yep. Didn't notice you were outside the U.S. Get the tea kettle too if you can . I use the tea kettle a lot. My set is a 27 series mine is old doesn't have the cut out so you can use the gas burner. It is big enough for 2 people I usually leave one of the sauce pans home if I'm by myself I know there are more efficient stoves and powerful stoves made. But to me the simplicity and quietness of a trangia has won me over . I like simple time proven stuff Some of the small L.E.D. lanterns are unbelievable as far as battery life but it just aint camping without my trusty candle lantern When It comes to outdoors sports I tend to run old school. nothing wrong with the new stuff .It is just not me.
Quick stick to you ribs camping recipe:
3/4 cup of water
small pouch of chicken (you can use tuna, ham etc)
3/4 cup minute rice ( cous cous works too)
1 envelope of cream of chicken cup-a-soup
put water and chicken in pan bring to boil
mix in soup and rice remove from heat cover skillet make a good lid
put tea kettle on for tea when your tea is ready
stir rice mixture salt and pepper to taste top with a little parmesan

StephenH

I haven't toured, but I've backpacked, and have a white gas stove I bought from REI.

dscheidt

Alcohol simply doesn't have the calorific content of other fuels. Motor gasoline is about 115K BTU/us gallon; white gas is a bit higher than that. Ethanol is 85K BTU/gallon (one of the reasons your car gets poorer fuel economy on ethanol containing fuels). Assuming you're accurate about the 15/minutes oz burn time, that's four ounces an hour, or 3.125% of a gallon/hr, which gives an input BTU rating of 2656 BTU/hr. That's a third to a quarter of the capacity of a typical isobutane or white gas stove, and corresponding long boil times. The advantage of an alcohol stove are they're dead cheap, light and simple. It's not that they're particularly good stoves at cooking things, or fuel economy. For anyone that can afford to spend a few bucks on a stove (you can get a reasonable white gas stove for $50 in the US, dunno about canada. A propane one is about the same, but fuel costs are higher.) you can do better than alcohol.

Wogster

Here are my conclusions:

Okay looking at the pros and cons here of the main types:

Alcohol:
Pros: Stoves can be very cheap, very quiet, very compact, safe, fuel spills are environmentally safe.
Cons: Low power output, slow boil times.

Propane/Butane:
Pros: Stoves are cheap, fast boil times
Cons: Heavy fuel containers, tanks can explode if over heated, used fuel containers require special hazardous waste disposal.

White Gas/Multi-Fuel:
Pros: Fast boil times, fuel is readily available.
Cons: Complex lighting procedure, noisy in operation, some do not allow easy simmering.

Conclusion:

Will make a cat or soda can alcohol stove this winter, and see, if it's too slow, and I think I need something faster, will look into the MSR Whisperlite (even though it sounds like a space shuttle taking off).

Wogster

I think it really depends on the type of tour, one is going on, and the intended pace. I like cycling, I like photography, and I like camping, so I really want a little of all three, so pace is likely to be 3-4 hours a day saddle time, with breaks for pix, so maybe 6-7 hours travel time, between camps, since I want a good 8 hours sleep, that leaves 9-10 hours in camp, say an hour or so to make camp, same to break, that leaves 7-8 hours in camp, I think if it takes 15 minutes to boil water, I can live with that.....

Of course if your idea is to go as far as possible each day, with 14 hours saddle time, then you need to be able to make/break camp in 15 minutes or less, so a longer boil time, is going to make things difficult.

plumberroy

I never said they where the most efficent or hottest. I said they are what I like, if you are one that likes the fastest lightest newest thing out there. the alcohol stove is not the way to go personally if I am some where camping, when I get up inthe morning I don't like the birds chirping drowned out by a jet engine and a couple extra minutes to cook breakfast is not a problem. Plus the fact that alcohol is a lot less toxic to the enviroment or to you if it gets spilled in your pack overrides the little extre time it take to cook with it .

Wogsterca: The key to getting the homemade stove to work efficently is a good wind screen as pointed out alcohol does not have the btu's gas does so you need to use as much of the heat produced as posible
Also reading reading how you plan to tour we would get along fine riding together Every day life is to fast now when I get some rec time I like to slow down and enjoy it
Roy

cyccommute 

I realized that you have issues with propane but don't overstate the issues. Any fuel canister can explode if headed. Even a bottle of alcohol can explode if heated. The solution to this problem is to not heat the container of fuel The amount of heat needed to explode any container of fuel, however is far above any ambient condition you are likely to ride a bike in. For what it's worth, alcohol usually comes in plastic bottles and is much more likely to leak and catch fire than either of the other fuels.

The fuel containers for small stoves are no heavier than the fuel containers (filled or empty) for liquid fuels. Liquid fuels have a far greater density then butane fuels and, thus, are heavier for a given volume than are liquified gaseous fuels.

Nor do the small fuel canisters require special disposal other then being empty. This is easily accomplished by leaving the stove on the canister and letting the canister vent. If you wish, you can puncture the empty canister. They can then be disposed of with regular refuse. This is only for canisters of less than 4 lbs but you are likely to be carrying very small canisters anyway since those are the ones used for backpacking stoves.

Finally, if you do happen to explode a fuel container...propane, white gas, alcohol, gasoline, etc...., the only fuel in the list that you won't have to worry about secondary effects of flying flaming liquids (flying container shrapnel being the first effect) is propane. It would make a fireball but not have any liquid that could stick to you to burn.

Wogster

I find it funny, you get 4 campers at a camp site, one guy comes in with a 15kg backpack, sets up his little tent, and his little stove, a couple of tarps and is happy. Next guy is on a bike, and has 20kg in the panniers, sets up his little tent, and is perfectly happy. Next guy is in a car, and wishes he didn't bring so much stuff, his tent is too big and heavy, the coleman 2 burner is a pain in the butt, and the stupid cooler leaked all over the back seat. The next guy has a 10m long 10,000kg RV, with air conditioning, satellite TV, Internet access and all the comforts of home, he didn't get away from it all, it took it with him, and even though on vacation, still checks his work email 50 times a day. When they all meet at the store, he does nothing but complain about the price of gas, but then at 30L/100km, I'm not really surprised.

In many ways cycle touring forces you to eliminate the stuff you don't need, spending a few days in the woods, the problems of every day life, and the stresses, seem to lose importance. Hearing a wolf howl from across the lake, puts things in perspective, and our plastic world, just doesn't seem important anymore.

Tom Stormcrowe

Sounds like you have the basic idea down, Wogster.....in that it's about the Journey, and not how fast you do it.

Wogster

That's what really gets a lot of touring type holidays, too much to do in too few days, if I am on holidays, I want to relax. Part of the problem in North America is that there are too few days off. In much of Europe, even starting employees get a months vacation, and no month doesn't have at least one other day off. This idea of 2 weeks holidays a year, and having to work "holiday" days, is simply resulting in a population that is stressed out and over worked.

Wogster

Now another question, for the tourists (and back packers) of the group. What do you consider essential equipment on a tour?

I figure, tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, stove, lamp or flashlight, cooking pot (with lid), eating utensils of some kind, bike shirt and shorts, t-shirt, regular shorts, underwear, socks, long pants, sweater or jacket, , rain gear, bike repair kit. Anything I missed?

Tom Stormcrowe

Pump!

Wogster

Already attached to the bike....

I left the other obvious thing off the list as well, camera and spare battery (d'oh).

cyccommute 

Make things do double duty as much as possible. Regular shorts with zip-off legs are better than just shorts. Camps can get cold at night. A light long sleeve jersey and a bike jacket can be used on the bike and in camp also. Carry stuff that can be used in layers too.

I'd also suggest more than one or even 2 sets of bike clothes. If you carry 3 days worth (and wear one for a total of 4 outfits), you don't have to do laundry as often. I pack each outfit - shorts, jersey, socks, sweat band and, perhaps, one spare set of gloves - in individual ziplocks so that I don't have to dig around for them. Just pull out a bag and you're ready to get dressed. Street/camp clothes go back in their own bag.

For camp clothes, you won't need as many changes as you do bike clothes. You'll only be wearing them for a few hours each day and you can rewear the clothes for several days before you have to change or wash them. If you are traveling in bear country, don't wear the same clothes you cook in to sleep. Bears love those little food flavored monkey sausages

You also for got cleaning and toilet supplies. Something to scrub pots with (I use Dobie Pads), dish soap, tooth brush (get a handy camping size one at REI, etc.) and personal washing supplies are needed too. For washing, my daughter turned me on to cleansing cloths. These are little fabric sheets that are presoaped but dry. Moisten them and they foam up real nice and cut grease well. Two or 3 of them are good for a shower and they work in cold water too. There are any number of them out there - ask a woman in your life Make sure you get the dry ones that are activated by water. Unless you are drinking it, you don't want to be hucking water around

superslomo

If it's a backpacking trip, I see a stove and cooking gear as being pretty important.

For a bike trip, where you are going to pass by restaurants and gas stations fairly regularly, I would probably skip the stove altogether, but if I were going to bring something, a small, marginal stove would probably do fine as well.

For backpacking, I wouldn't bother with alcohol or fuel tab stoves, and just go ahead and use white gas... the coleman peak 1 that I had didn't require priming, and didnt need to have a separate fuel bottle attached to it... all in one unit.