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  1. #1
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Touring Question

    Have a quick question for the tourists of the group. I don't regularily read the tourist forum, and I know there are tour riders here. Maybe this should be a poll?

    What kind of stove do you use?
    Alcohol (home made)
    Alcohol (factory made)
    Liquid fuelled (white gas/kerosine/gasoline)
    LPG/Propane fuelled

    Might like to do some touring next year, and wondering what is best....

  2. #2
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca View Post
    Have a quick question for the tourists of the group. I don't regularily read the tourist forum, and I know there are tour riders here. Maybe this should be a poll?

    What kind of stove do you use?
    Alcohol (home made)
    Alcohol (factory made)
    Liquid fuelled (white gas/kerosine/gasoline)
    LPG/Propane fuelled

    Might like to do some touring next year, and wondering what is best....
    I have a white gas stove, the MSR Pocket Rocket. It's the only one I've owned, and it's great.

  3. #3
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    I use a super cheap one. It uses any canned fuel, and can even use twigs and pinecones.

    http://www.campingsurvival.com/foldingstove.html



    It costs around $5 USD, and the fuel costs about $5 or$6 for 4 cans of fuel, either the branded, or Magic Fuel, or Sterno. You can get fuel for it at hardware, Walmart, Grocery and many other stores.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Historian View Post
    I have a white gas stove, the MSR Pocket Rocket. It's the only one I've owned, and it's great.
    Any problems with it? Let me rephrase that, ever want to pitch it over the nearest cliff? I guess the biggest advantage is that white gas is available just about everywhere, I've even seen it at gas stations, particularly in smaller places......

  5. #5
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    I use a super cheap one. It uses any canned fuel, and can even use twigs and pinecones.

    http://www.campingsurvival.com/foldingstove.html



    It costs around $5 USD, and the fuel costs about $5 or$6 for 4 cans of fuel, either the branded, or Magic Fuel, or Sterno. You can get fuel for it at hardware, Walmart, Grocery and many other stores.
    I see that Crappy er Canadian Tire has that one, for CA$11.99 (so much for currency parity, eh?), I'm debating about alcohol or white gas, alcohol stoves are cheaper, some as cheap as $1, not sure about fuel availability though, off the beaten path..... White gas is available just about everywhere....

  6. #6
    fc_
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    Ok, I've toured. (and I have pictures to prove it somewhere )

    I think there are two essential questions that need to be answered.... (not in any particular order)

    1. Where are you riding through, and what's available on that route in the type of fuel?

    2. What are you planning to cook/heat up?

    To clarify on my tours, they've been down the california coast (sf to mexico, sf to santa barbra, eugene to sf, etc) and for my needs being:

    able to have coffee in the am
    able to have oatmeal in the am (my first breakfast before finding a diner to actually get a "real" breakfast on the road)
    and lastly, the occasional (and I do mean just that) dinner ala ramen noodles at camp at the end of the day (hey, I do eat a bunch on tours, but I still lost weight at the end)

    I carried a small propane cylinder with a rather cheesy set top stove adapter. For me it worked fine. Since you're in canada, and am assuming you'll be touring in those neck of the woods, I'd probably opt for something that would take natural fuels (twigs, pine cones, bark, etc.) as at least a secondary fuel source. From what I've read about touring in that area, sources of natural gas, petrol, etc. can be far and few in between.

    Remember.... take your camera and make good use of it. You're now on the hook for amazing photos from your tour.

  7. #7
    Not safe for work cyclokitty's Avatar
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    Don't the alcohol stoves take forever to boil water? I'm not the most patient person in the world (not even for water), so my vote goes to MSR's Whisperlite. Haven't wanted to throw it over a cliff or at a stranger yet!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca View Post
    Any problems with it? Let me rephrase that, ever want to pitch it over the nearest cliff? I guess the biggest advantage is that white gas is available just about everywhere, I've even seen it at gas stations, particularly in smaller places......
    I've got an ancient coleman multi-fuel stove. (I don't take it bike touring, but do take it backpacking.)
    I've got one like this (though mine is a different, older, discontinued model):this

    What I like about it: it's simple, reasonably reliable. I carry a spare pump kit, a spare generator, neither of which I've ever replaced in the field. I really like the integrated fuel tank; full, it holds enough fuel for a weekend, for one or two. It burns white gas, gasoline, gas with oil (like for a chainsaw or outboard motor, though it will need cleaning) or by changing the generator kerosine or diesel fuel. Works okay in cold weather. easy to light. US walmarts often have parts!

    What I don't like about it: it's picky to get level (though they've changed the legs, that might be better) the windscreen isn't terribly good, it's heavy.

  9. #9
    Emeritus...a second time? talleymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    I use a super cheap one. It uses any canned fuel, and can even use twigs and pinecones.

    http://www.campingsurvival.com/foldingstove.html



    It costs around $5 USD, and the fuel costs about $5 or$6 for 4 cans of fuel, either the branded, or Magic Fuel, or Sterno. You can get fuel for it at hardware, Walmart, Grocery and many other stores.

    You can also make fuel cans for this type of stove. I found it in a Reader's Digest book called Back To Basics. I used to make these things a lot when I was a kid. I wasn't allowed to be in Boy Scouts, bu I read every camping/wilderness book that I could find. I would spend my entire allowance on camping gear.

    Anyways......

    All you need is an empty cleaned tuna can, some cardboard and some paraffin wax.

    Cut the cardboard into a long strip about 1/4" wider than the depth of the tuna can. Coil up the cardboard tightly in the can. Melt the wax and pour it in. These things will burn plenty hot enough to cook on.
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  10. #10
    Gears? CliftonGK1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Historian View Post
    I have a white gas stove, the MSR Pocket Rocket. It's the only one I've owned, and it's great.
    The MSR Pocket Rocket is an isobutane stove, not white gas. I've got the same stove, and it's fantastic for everything except the following:

    High altitude
    Extreme cold

    Isobutane canisters are horrible in either of those two conditions, and that's where you want a white gas stove (MSR Whisperlite, XGK, Dragonfly); anything that comes with an external liquid fuel tank that needs pump pressurizing.

    Now, the benefit to an isobutane stove is that they're easy to get lit, they burn pretty well in anything up to a moderate wind, and they're very lightweight. The drawback is that you can't use a heat shield because your flame is directly on top of the fuel canister. Isobutane is pretty cheap, and you can find it at camping stores and even Target and X-marts.
    The benefit to white gas is that you can buy it at pretty much anyplace in the world, many white gas stoves are multi-fuel (kerosene and unleaded gasoline too.) You can use a heat shield because your fuel source is separate from the flame. But they're kinda a PITA to get lit, what with priming and all. And if you have too much fuel in the priming cup you can make quite a flaming mess of your campsite. You can refill your white gas canisters, but isobutane canisters need to be disposed of/recycled properly.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc_ View Post
    Ok, I've toured. (and I have pictures to prove it somewhere )

    I think there are two essential questions that need to be answered.... (not in any particular order)

    1. Where are you riding through, and what's available on that route in the type of fuel?

    2. What are you planning to cook/heat up?

    To clarify on my tours, they've been down the california coast (sf to mexico, sf to santa barbra, eugene to sf, etc) and for my needs being:

    able to have coffee in the am
    able to have oatmeal in the am (my first breakfast before finding a diner to actually get a "real" breakfast on the road)
    and lastly, the occasional (and I do mean just that) dinner ala ramen noodles at camp at the end of the day (hey, I do eat a bunch on tours, but I still lost weight at the end)

    I carried a small propane cylinder with a rather cheesy set top stove adapter. For me it worked fine. Since you're in canada, and am assuming you'll be touring in those neck of the woods, I'd probably opt for something that would take natural fuels (twigs, pine cones, bark, etc.) as at least a secondary fuel source. From what I've read about touring in that area, sources of natural gas, petrol, etc. can be far and few in between.

    Remember.... take your camera and make good use of it. You're now on the hook for amazing photos from your tour.
    Naphtha or white gas is available pretty much everywhere, even some gas stations will have it. I haven't checked availability of fuel for alcohol stoves, but I suspect that anyone that carries naphtha will carry it as well. It depends on where you are though, a Yukon trip probably would not have fuel available everywhere, but generally settlements should have it. Nice thing about cycling, versus hiking is that you typically are on roads between settlements, rather then just trails. I would check on fuel availability before buying a stove though.....

    Most tours are likely to be in Southern Ontario possibly upper New York state, but only if they come up with a good ID system for crossing the border, as I do not want to carry a passport. I live in Toronto, which is the middle of the map, and of course the known universe

    The idea on fuel though, is I don't want to have to carry a large supply, it's dangerous and adds a lot of weight. What I find interesting though is that fuel is sold in 1L and 4L containers, but fuel bottles
    hold less, a 1L fuel bottle holds .85L when full. Which means you either need to carry 2 fuel bottles or waste some. Kinda like you can buy 12 hotdogs but buns are sold in packages of 8. Being able to carry 1L or so of fuel and pickup up additional fuel in transit is best.

    I don't like propane, for several reasons, it's quite dangerous, another is that fuel containers are heavy for their capacity, and the small fuel containers are not refillable or recyclable, and require special disposal. Which means it's easy to end up packing out several cylinders, which I then need to take to a hazardous waste depot. The tank on the barbecue is refillable, why isn't the camp stove tank? Actually I take the BBQ tank to the place, and pay a small fee and they give me a different full one, which means I don't need to dispose of the old tank when it's no longer usable.

  12. #12
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliftonGK1 View Post
    The MSR Pocket Rocket is an isobutane stove, not white gas. I've got the same stove, and it's fantastic for everything except the following:

    High altitude
    Extreme cold

    Isobutane canisters are horrible in either of those two conditions, and that's where you want a white gas stove (MSR Whisperlite, XGK, Dragonfly); anything that comes with an external liquid fuel tank that needs pump pressurizing.

    Now, the benefit to an isobutane stove is that they're easy to get lit, they burn pretty well in anything up to a moderate wind, and they're very lightweight. The drawback is that you can't use a heat shield because your flame is directly on top of the fuel canister. Isobutane is pretty cheap, and you can find it at camping stores and even Target and X-marts.
    The benefit to white gas is that you can buy it at pretty much anyplace in the world, many white gas stoves are multi-fuel (kerosene and unleaded gasoline too.) You can use a heat shield because your fuel source is separate from the flame. But they're kinda a PITA to get lit, what with priming and all. And if you have too much fuel in the priming cup you can make quite a flaming mess of your campsite. You can refill your white gas canisters, but isobutane canisters need to be disposed of/recycled properly.
    Thanks, Clifton, for setting me straight. I'm so new, and clueless, about camping I didn't even know what I had!

  13. #13
    Solo Rider, always DFL
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    I had a Coleman Peak1 white gas stove for a long time, and it didn't require priming, but had a higher chance of generator trouble... read as: after ten years, I was out where I couldn't find white gas, and used unleaded before going backpacking, and it gunked up the generator... needed replacing.

    MSR's are more "fail-proof" but have more fiddly pieces to them, and need to be primed, and if it's extremely cold may need to be extensively primed.

    Isobutane is hard to find if you are really way out in the sticks, but other than that it is nice to be able to throw away the empties, and if you are planning on touring in Europe it is almost definitely your BEST bet, as isobutane's the more common backpacking stove out there.

    That being said, since you are bike touring instead of backcountry camping, the need for a stove is dubious, to my mind. If I know that I'm going to be passing a store where I can get an egg and cheese sandwich in a half-hour, I'd rather not bother with the weight, bulk, headache, and time involved in making hot food in camp. It's been a bit since I've toured, but my one abiding realization has been that you really don't need to bother with a stove much of the time, and unless I knew that I was going to be in a really really remote area, I would skip it altogether.

    You might not always get the perfect nutrition, but if you can skip carrying food/fuel/stove/pot/utensils/dishes, that's a pretty substantial savings in cargo.
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  14. #14
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca View Post
    Have a quick question for the tourists of the group. I don't regularily read the tourist forum, and I know there are tour riders here. Maybe this should be a poll?

    What kind of stove do you use?
    Alcohol (home made)
    Alcohol (factory made)
    Liquid fuelled (white gas/kerosine/gasoline)
    LPG/Propane fuelled

    Might like to do some touring next year, and wondering what is best....
    I have tried the MSR Whisperlite. White gas. Very messy. The priming procedure coats the outside of the stove with soot. It's also not very controllable. It's either on or off with little control in between. Needless to say, I didn't like that one.

    My favorite is a Primus TechnoTrail. It's butane with an igniter built in (that is so very nice). Very controllable from simmer to full boil and works well at altitude (about 12500). The only draw back is that it takes canisters that are hard to find in the middle of the US. Not something you'll find at your local sporting goods store, hardware store, HellMart, etc.

    My current stove is a Primus Multifuel which allows me to use either butane or white gas without changing jets. It's a little harder to light at altitude but it does a good job with control. A bit heavier than the TechnoTrail too but at least I can cook with it.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member lil brown bat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclokitty View Post
    Don't the alcohol stoves take forever to boil water? I'm not the most patient person in the world (not even for water), so my vote goes to MSR's Whisperlite. Haven't wanted to throw it over a cliff or at a stranger yet!
    Definitely, some stoves are better than others, but no camp stove is going to boil water as fast as your gas range back home. Rather than simply buying a bigger/hotter stove, though, it's worth trying a few simple tricks to make your current stove as efficient as it can be, like using reflectors and windscreens. One of http://hikinghq.net/sgt_stove/wind_screen.html makes a big difference in boiling time, I've found.

    (esbit stove with solid fuel tabs, btw...works for me)

  16. #16
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclokitty View Post
    Don't the alcohol stoves take forever to boil water? I'm not the most patient person in the world (not even for water), so my vote goes to MSR's Whisperlite. Haven't wanted to throw it over a cliff or at a stranger yet!
    From what I have been able to determine, it takes around 3-3½ minutes with a white gas stove, around 6-7 minutes for an alcohol stove. Some white gas stoves are quite a bit slower, and some alcohol stoves are quite a bit faster. Some hiking/camping sites suggest, even if you use a white gas stove to put a soda can stove in your pack, so that if end up somewhere that you can get alcohol, but not white gas, your still able to heat stuff up.

    I think the deal is generally the same, light the stove and do something else while it is heating up, What's the old saying, a watched pot never boils...... The time it's tricky is first thing in the morning, so you set up the stove the night before a ½ m outside the tent, with the pot ready to go, in the morning upon waking, reach out, light the stove and then begin the body initialization sequence (takes me about 10 minutes), after which the pot is nicely boiling with any stove, dump it into the coffee pot, and your ready to go....

    Lots of factors affect boil times though, the wind screen size and shape, the pot material and condition, different materials transfer heat better, a black pot will boil faster then a shiny one, so scrubbing the soot off a pot in the bush, to get the bottom shiny again, can defeat the purpose.

    Of course the third option is propane, actually a mix of isobutane, butane and propane, considering what happened not 4km from my house last Sunday when it looked like someone bombed central North York, I don't think so......

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    http://www.msrgear.com/stoves/whisperint.asp

    I like my whisper light...only use it for backpacking not touring, yet

    I haven't had any of the problems cyccommute has had except maybe the first time (the whole stove kinda lit on fire, but it is because i didn't fully read the directions). I can prime it fine, but my fiance has trouble so i hope you have big muscles had to stay away from the butane for the altitude/ cold reasons (we backpack in the winter).

  18. #18
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superslomo View Post
    I had a Coleman Peak1 white gas stove for a long time, and it didn't require priming, but had a higher chance of generator trouble... read as: after ten years, I was out where I couldn't find white gas, and used unleaded before going backpacking, and it gunked up the generator... needed replacing.

    MSR's are more "fail-proof" but have more fiddly pieces to them, and need to be primed, and if it's extremely cold may need to be extensively primed.

    Isobutane is hard to find if you are really way out in the sticks, but other than that it is nice to be able to throw away the empties, and if you are planning on touring in Europe it is almost definitely your BEST bet, as isobutane's the more common backpacking stove out there.

    That being said, since you are bike touring instead of backcountry camping, the need for a stove is dubious, to my mind. If I know that I'm going to be passing a store where I can get an egg and cheese sandwich in a half-hour, I'd rather not bother with the weight, bulk, headache, and time involved in making hot food in camp. It's been a bit since I've toured, but my one abiding realization has been that you really don't need to bother with a stove much of the time, and unless I knew that I was going to be in a really really remote area, I would skip it altogether.

    You might not always get the perfect nutrition, but if you can skip carrying food/fuel/stove/pot/utensils/dishes, that's a pretty substantial savings in cargo.
    The biggest problem with butane/propane is that the empties, at least here in Ontario, Canada are considered hazardous waste, and need to be disposed of at a hazardous waste depot, not every city/town/village has one. They can be recycled, but need special handling first, as do metal gas cans. The cans are also very heavy for the amount of energy contained within them, my brother-in-laws 2 burner Coleman camp stove goes through almost one a day, while a single burner should get twice as much, if your on a week long tour, you will end up 3-4 empties weighing down the panniers, for nothing.

    Biggest issue, if your fuel tank gets too hot, there is a chance it can BLEVE*, while the BLEVE from a 300g propane cylinder is quite small, it's likely to take out your entire camp site, leaving you, and the campers around you to deal with flaming shrapnel.

    BLEVE - Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapour Explosion, propane is pressurized for storage, the storage tank then cools, effectively reducing the temperature of the gas to below it's boiling point, resulting in a liquid. When you heat the tank, it raises the temperature, at a certain point the propane boils, the expanding vapour then over comes the pressure containment of the tank, and the tank ruptures, as the gas is released any source of heat -- like your stove -- will result in a fireball. The high pressure at low temperature is why propane tanks often are covered in frost, even when it's very hot outside.

    Considering the risk of propane, and propane like fuels, I think I will stick with white gas and alcohol.....

  19. #19
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    I can count 14 single burner stoves from my chair (plus a box of home made stoves plus one or two in the garage) If I need a stove 98% of the time I take either a tragia 27 series or a optumus "svea 123 climber" As far as white gas boiling water faster? While it does boil water faster the trangia you light it and put the water on the white gas stove you have to pump it or prime it or both on some stoves in the mean time the alcohol stove (Trangia) has been heating for 2-3 minutes Also the trangia is whisper quite. I have a msr dragon fly , it is one hell of a stove but sounds like a jet engine. by the way I have not toured on a bike but have back packed and camped a lot coming up different things to cook is part of the fun for me.
    Roy

  20. #20
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
    I can count 14 single burner stoves from my chair (plus a box of home made stoves plus one or two in the garage) If I need a stove 98% of the time I take either a tragia 27 series or a optumus "svea 123 climber" As far as white gas boiling water faster? While it does boil water faster the trangia you light it and put the water on the white gas stove you have to pump it or prime it or both on some stoves in the mean time the alcohol stove (Trangia) has been heating for 2-3 minutes Also the trangia is whisper quite. I have a msr dragon fly , it is one hell of a stove but sounds like a jet engine. by the way I have not toured on a bike but have back packed and camped a lot coming up different things to cook is part of the fun for me.
    Roy
    I (and I guess a few others) hadn't thought of the prep time needed.

    Alcohol, unpack unit, pour in fuel, light, put on pot, wait for boil.
    White Gas, unpack unit, connect fuel tank, pump up pressure, prime stove, light, wait for priming flame to go down, put on wind screen, put on pot, wait for boil.

    Looks to be about even time wise..... Now for morning, I guess you could do about half the prep the night before.

    I'm thinking of making a cat or soda can stove some time this winter, for spring testing, to see how it does, if it works well in April, then it should do well in summer. If it doesn't work, then I can toss it without a major investment......

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca View Post
    I (and I guess a few others) hadn't thought of the prep time needed.

    Alcohol, unpack unit, pour in fuel, light, put on pot, wait for boil.
    White Gas, unpack unit, connect fuel tank, pump up pressure, prime stove, light, wait for priming flame to go down, put on wind screen, put on pot, wait for boil.

    Looks to be about even time wise..... Now for morning, I guess you could do about half the prep the night before.

    I'm thinking of making a cat or soda can stove some time this winter, for spring testing, to see how it does, if it works well in April, then it should do well in summer. If it doesn't work, then I can toss it without a major investment......
    I have made about 50 of the different alcolhol stove most were pepsi can stoves the will boil water (with a good wind screen) unless you are eating strickly dehydrated backpacking food.where you boil water and pour in the pouch, I like a little more stove . this is a the best deal on an alcohol stove I know of If i didn't have the trangia set I would use it (I have one)
    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ZRW170-1.html
    It is a stove, windscreen ,two pans and acohol bottle
    I carry the home made stove or a litte brasslite stove in the winter woods walking to make a cup of tea to warm up
    Roy

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    FWIW, I have an MSR XGK that I've used backpacking both in the USA and Africa. On the plus side, it will burn just about anything. I, personally, have used white gas, paraffin, and diesel fuel. Of course, if you put low-grade fuel in it (read: diesel) you'll get a very sooty flame that will blacken your pots... and anything they happen to come in contact with. DAMHKIT. I'd say that all of the MSR stoves are a bit fiddly, but if you practice at home 3-4 times you shouldn't have any trouble. For some reason, I remember the XGK being decidedly easier to prime and light than the WhisperLite it replaced.

    There are 2 or 3 problems with the XGK. The first problem is that it's pretty darn expensive for a stove. The second problem is that the stove is loud. Really loud. I'm not kidding when I say it roars like a jet engine! And the final problem is that like all single-valve MSR stoves it only has two settings: hot and off. There's just not a whole lot of adjustability in between. I never found the latter to be much of a problem, but if you're planning to do gourmet cooking you might want to look at the MSR Dragonfly or something with some more adjustability.

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    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca View Post
    Of course the third option is propane, actually a mix of isobutane, butane and propane, considering what happened not 4km from my house last Sunday when it looked like someone bombed central North York, I don't think so......
    Yes, hydrocarbon gases are flammable. So are liquid fuels. That's the point of fuels A small canister of propane is highly unlikely to catch fire and explode. You could play kick the can with a propane canister and never have to worry about puncturing it. If you opened it, the gas would dissipate too quickly to have the kind of explosive power that a huge tank of it can have.

    White gas and alcohol, on the other hand, don't dissipate and have far more explosive potential than gases do. If ignited they tend to stick to surfaces...your skin...and keep delivering heat. Liquid fuels also offer far more likely spill potential than a gas canister. Knock an open one over and the fuel will be right there waiting for a source of ignition. It takes a significant amount of time to evaporate a pool of naphtha or alcohol with an invisible cloud of flammable fuel/air mixture hovering over it the whole time.

    Base your choice on convenience, performance and cost...not on the fact that something blew up in your neighborhood. A gasoline tank blew up in Kansas City in June but we all still use gasoline
    Stuart Black
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    I'm in the white gas camp.I've had a Svea 123 forever,it's old,messy,take a chance on catching crap on fire when you prime it,it's heavy,it's ugly,it's solid brass,you need three hands to light the stupid thing.

    Best stove ever.It ALWAYS WORKS,no matter what.It will burn anything you put in it,works in the rain,snow,hail wind.You can adjust the flame so you can cook with it,and lasts forever.I'm keeping mine.
    Everything should be as simple as possible...But not more so.---Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca View Post
    I (and I guess a few others) hadn't thought of the prep time needed.

    Alcohol, unpack unit, pour in fuel, light, put on pot, wait for boil.
    White Gas, unpack unit, connect fuel tank, pump up pressure, prime stove, light, wait for priming flame to go down, put on wind screen, put on pot, wait for boil.

    Looks to be about even time wise..... Now for morning, I guess you could do about half the prep the night before.

    I'm thinking of making a cat or soda can stove some time this winter, for spring testing, to see how it does, if it works well in April, then it should do well in summer. If it doesn't work, then I can toss it without a major investment......
    White gas or iso-butane stoves put out way more heat than than alcohol stoves. Typical white gas stove is 7500 to 10K BTU, unpressurized alcohol are 3 to 4K BTU. So boil times are longer. It doesn't take that long to set up a gas stove. I can have my peak lit in 30 seconds, if I'm lucky at lights instantly, 90 seconds in a rainstorm. If you're cooking anything more involved than instant oat meal and coffee, you'll want more heat than an alcohol tove puts out.

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