bigfred 

The high spoke count advice still works for experienced clydes with the funds to purchase whatever gear they want, it that is a low maintenance, lower cost, durable wheel option. If they're willing to risk higher maintenance concerns a host of low count wheels come into play. (big)But, that has a lot to do with their weight, road conditions, expectations, etc. At the point someone is making such trade off decisions, chances are that they have enough experience to ask somewhat more pointed questions.

SSBully

OK. Fair enough. All valid points, and said with much less arrogance than the poster prior to you.

rumrunn6

... and it's been brought up that more spokes will help keep a wheel stable is one should break. The low spoke wheels are more likely to go out of true quickly with a broken spoke. I can attest to that!

EKW in DC

I have the same Scwinn hybrid as the OP (w/ 24 spoke wheels), and I just had a spoke break a couple weeks ago. I had been commuting 14 miles round trip on smooth roads and MUPs four days a week on it for about a month. Throw in a couple short weekend rides and some random errands, that's still only about 200 miles total. My spoke broke on the rear wheel, drive side. Just came right out of the hub.

I was overseas for a couple weeks, so I didn't have time to get it fixed until now. I was going to take the rear wheel to the LBS and have them replace at least the broken spoke and retrue the wheel. I was also going to take in the front wheel and have them check the condition and tension of those spokes as well.

I'm 6'1" and close to 300 lbs. I'm on a very tight budget, and now having read this thread, I'm worried that:

1. The LBS will recommend new wheels with more spokes (which I really probably can't afford right now... just scraping together the funds for this big-box-store bike was a chore) or
2. The LBS will fix them up properly but that problems will continue given my weight (which although it is coming down, will probably always remain firmly in the "Clyde" territory) and the low cost (and quality?) of this wheel.

Any advice anyone can offer, short of rehashing the discussion that's already taken place in this thread?

Thanks!

Tom Stormcrowe

If the rim didn't deform badly, it's not going to be that expensive to stick in a new spoke and have the whole wheel retensioned and trued. given that that's what you have right now, that's the route I'd try first and save up some bucks for at least a higher spoke count rear wheel. Meantime, watch Ebay for a stronger wheel, you can get some deals if you are patient.

noglider 

One spoke may be a fluke. If you're lucky, that's what it was.

The LBS might recommend new wheels with more spokes. They'd be remiss if they didn't.

If the problem recurs, you know what you need. But you may get lucky. Better to try your luck with the wheel you have than to try to buy something you can't afford yet.

If you're interested in saving money, learn to fix the wheel now. Besides saving money, you will get a great feeling of satisfaction. I find nothing more satisfying than wheel work.

Road Fan

Yes, you should be able to swap in a wide range of cranks.

I'd suggest that for the $$ you're saving on the nice old steel bike versus a new bike, it should be worth it to get a fine builder to make you a set of wheels, or at least get a set of machine-built wheels and have an expert tension/true them. Nothing really should go wrong with anything on the Schwinn other than the wheels. Tune up/regrease all the rest of the bike yourself, but put adequate money and/or skill into the wheels. It's very possible a good local builder can build new rims onto your existing Schwinn wheels, and you'll have new set of wheels that is far more stable and durable than what Schwinn built, as good as that was.

Al Criner

www.velo-orange.com/sh10suncrrew.html

Sun CR-18 rim, 36 14 gauge spokes, Shimano 105 hub, handbuilt in the US of A, $120. No bling factor but very sturdy. The CR-18 is a little wider rim so you want to go with 28mm tires or wider.

EKW in DC

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback so far.

The wheel, of course, started to feel a bit wobbly when it happened - that's how I knew there was a problem b/c if it "popped" or made any other kind of noise when it broke, it was apparently drowned out by atomobile traffic noise or something. The wheel still seems fairly true, though...

I'll keep my fingers crossed for the fluke. So far, Target's "quality" assembly has necessitated my learning about and tinkering with brakes and (especially) derailleurs MANY times so far to try to get the bike better tuned, but those adjustments are all easily done with tools I already have. Seems to me that wheel work (especially tensioning and truing) requires some not-so-cheap tools that I don't have yet. Is that true or am I being misguided by the how-to's I've seen online re: spoke replacement, spoke tensionin, and wheel truing?

There is a community org in my area, though, with free Community Open Shop and Adult Instruction once or twice a month, so I'll be sure to check that out soon and try to pick up some additional advice, pointers, and maybe some free use of tools...

Thanks for that. Might be a good lead if it comes to replacing the wheel. The same commuity cycling org here has spare parts for sale, so I may be able to check to see if they have any wheels if it comes to that...

Again, thanks all for the feedback! The quick responses on this forum and the offers of assistance from passing fellow cycling commuters when I realized I had a broken spoke give me faith in the cycling community and humanity more generally.

noglider 

It's not true. You need a spoke wrench. You don't need a truing stand. You will need a cassette remover or a freewheel remover if you break a spoke on the drive side of a rear wheel. Your bike probably has a cassette, not a freewheel.

There are zillions of articles on how to true wheels, and most of them show you how to do it without a truing stand. A truing stand is nice to have but not necessary when you're starting out. I used to build wheels for a living, so of course, I had all the expensive tools.

rumrunn6

EKW in DC - If you recall I had this happen twice and spent $60 over 2 weeks. I'm not commuting on that wheel anymore. Despite spending money on old steel bikes I'm going to have Harrid build a custom 36 spoke wheel for me. High quality rim, high qualty constructions, and high spoke count - that wheel is gonna cook! It'll cost me about $120. but you know what? That willteach me for not buying the right bike. Oh well, get the whell fixed and buy a new one. Another option is to have a custom wheel built like me and reuse the hub - that can save $40.

I picked up 2 things from Harris Cyclery in West Newton, MA for 2 bikes. So glad I live/work near them! And you know what? They have the good stuff! :-)

- stem extender
- long stem

OOooo, now I'm thinking I can make a smaller frame work for me! I picked up a very light World Sport - not sure if the '80s bike took the same stem diameter -- doesn't really matter - lots to play with now. Thanks for the suggestions!

noglider 

Standard stem diameter was 22.2 mm.

You are lucky you're near Harris. I've never been there but hope to make it some day. I visit Boston occasionally.

EKW in DC

Well, the verdict is in, for now. Finally got the LBS today with the wheels, front and back. Anyway, couple things I learned...

1. Turns out there were two broken spokes. One was just being held nicely in place by the reflector.

2. The hub was too tight, which the mechanic said didn't help matters with the spoke breakage. Additionally, the tension was just way off on some of the spokes... all over the place. Some too tight, some too loose. It's all fixed up and the wheels true... They did all the work for around $25 while I waited. Very happy.

3. I also had them check the tension of the spokes on the front wheel since I knew the wheel was machine made and in all likelihood far from perfect. Well, good thing I did. In addition to the issues with the rear wheel mentioned above, some of the spokes on the front wheel were way too loose. They kindly retensioned all those spokes for me, too, at no additional charge over what they took for the spokes and truing of the rear wheel.

So, I'm hoping that with the poor tensioning of the spokes and tight hub detected and repaired that my spoke woes are a thing of the past. If they aren't then it'll be time to follow rumrunn6's example and look into getting a new wheel with more spokes. But that means more $, which I could be spending on all kinds of other things, bike-related and not.

In any event, we'll start finding out tomorrow. Gonna try to do a 20 or 25 miler in the morning and Tuesday I'll be back to commuting to work, so time will tell.

rumrunn6

I'm trying my fixed wheel today on a paved bike trail w/o potholes. Still don't trust it to commute on.

Curious to know how yours holds up!

EKW in DC

Well, I got my answer... it lasted about... 12 miles. Just shy of an hour into what was up to that point a great morning ride yesterday and *pop* followed by wobbly wheel. Stopped, checked, and sure enough, another spoke bit the dust. POS!

Was looking fwd to the second hour of my ride yesterday, too, and of course, getting back to commuting, but now I'm back to square one again... or square two, I suppose. I do have a bike, just one with a now perpetually bum wheel.

rumrunn6

EKW, sorry to hear that. I had better luck. I did my 1st 100 mile ride yesterday. 50 on an old steel bike and 50 with my 24 spoke wheel on a converted hybrid. The wheel held up for the whole 50! It was nice to ride that bike. I forgot how much I like it. I'm gonna buy a new wheel, not a custom one. I'm gonna put a few easy miles on it and have them check it before I do any real commuting on it. It's a lot cheaper and I might be trashing any wheel I get so why trash an expensive one ...

SSBully

I guess it still has everything to do with the fact that it's not a 36h wheel, and nothing to do with a crap wheel, huh? Sorry that happened to you again, man. I'm a little bitter right now about the whole subject. All of the people coming in here and saying that it has to do with spoke count, and spoke count only. I'll bet if you built a wheel with the same "high quality"(extreme sarcasm) components as the original wheel was built with and this time, you built a 36h wheel, this wouldn't be happening.

Amazing how rumrunn's 24 spoke wheel held up to a 50 milre run!!!!! I know that physics dictates that a clyde on a 24h wheel is just not in the law of possibility! Oh well, I guess his experience(along with many other clydes') is just more hearsay and anecdotes?

Wogster

There are several factors, it's not just spoke count. Spoke tension is one of them, riding style is another, that many people do not account for. Some riders plant their butt hard on the saddle and no matter how rough the surface, even going through Buick swallowing potholes, their butt stays hard on the saddle. They need a heavy duty wheel, because the wheel is crushed between the rough surface and riders weight. Other riders, lift their butt off the saddle on rough surfaces and use their legs as shock absorbers, so the wheel is allowed to move with the surface.

What gets me with this whole thing is many of those who worship at the alter of 36 spokes, have this inane belief that at 199.999lbs a 16 spoke wheel is perfectly fine, but at 200.000lbs you need an absolute minimum of 36 spokes or the wheel will collapse at the first turn.

Another thing often discounted is bicycle type, mountain bikes, cross bikes and touring bikes often have 36 spoke wheels even when the rider weight is considerably less then 200lbs. There are two reasons for this, first is that a 36 hole wheel can take some abuse, second if you do break a spoke, your not disabled.

bigfred 

Both of you guys could afford to take a chill pill. Yes, really. I mean it.

Most of us on here have first hand appreciation of the points you're trying to make. You're just doing those points a disservice in your delivery. All of us realize that there's more than spoke count to consider when it comes to determining what will be a durable wheel for a given set of circumstances.

The fact remains, that when a person posts on here with a wheel issue, we usually lack most of the required information to give them the "perfect for them" answer. Instead, we have to draw from the collective experience of clydes, some of us whom have been riding for decades, for generalized recommendations that should satisfy their expressed concerns.

So, to both of you I pose the following question:

What wheels should I be riding?

I'm 39 y.o., 125-132kg, riding in a mixed urban/suburban/rural environment, on everything from baby bottom smooth asphalt to extremely rough chip seal. 63cm alu race geo frame, usually 25mm tires at 120psi. Measured on the ergo at the gym my 3 minute average is just north of 400 watts, on race oriented group rides, on (florida) flat roads I can easily ride on the front of the C men and B women (19-21mph), I can stay in the group of B men and A women (21-24mph), I can't touch the A pace of 25+. However, I'm currently living in Auckland, where I comfortably ride a 39-53x12-27 on fairly hilly terrain, but, am off the back of any racing oriented group ride at the first decent hill. My history includes having cracked bottom bracket spindles, bottom brackets, pedal spindles, drive side chain stays, snapped more chains than I can count, and have stripped the pawls through the ratchets of more than one freewheel/hub. My weekly cycling total is usually around 100-150 miles. Most of it is decidely urban with man whole covers, water mains, storm grates, etc. Maybe 40-80 mile of rural riding on the weekends.

Have I missed any information that you might need to sugest an appropriate combination of hub, spoke, pattern, rim and tire?

What say you, who know so much more than the rest of us?

noglider 

I don't think I want to guess. With your mass and power output, I'd guess you need stout wheels, but you set it up as a trick question, so for all I know, you ride 16-spoke wheels that weigh 2 kg each. And it's actually conceivable that you can ride light wheels and still break bottom bracket spindles and freewheel pawls. That's because you create a lot of torque but the job of the wheel is the still the same for lighter people, i.e. to roll and to bear the weight.

SSBully

I don't know so much more than the rest of you. I apologize if I came off like that. It gets me all wound up to hear things just thrown about and repeated ad nauseum until it becomes gospel.

Now on to your question. Before I would even begin to suggest any type of wheel combo, and after reading your history, Id first suggest working on rounding out your pedal stroke, and not trying to mash your way through everything.

Wogster

I never said I knew more then anyone else, so calm down, pop one of those chill pills you so quickly recommended for the rest of us. When it comes to a wheel recommendation, it depends on many things, not just bicycle load weight, and you covered a lot of factors. However there may be stuff you have not covered.

First is, what is your primary objective with a wheel, durability or low rotating weight, and realise you can only get one at the cost of the other in the same wheel. Realistically, more spokes means a higher durability at a cost of weight, but the rim is also a factor and the hub less so, but realise that a high flange hub and a deep V rim also mean shorter spokes, which can also increase durability at a cost of a higher wheel weight. Wheel diameter is also a factor, a 26" wheel is more durable then a 700C or 27" wheel, but that is often dictated by the frame and fork. Some riders who want a durable wheel for riding, and a light wheel for racing, have two wheels built using the same type of hub and cassette, and they swap wheels as needed.

Considering the broken parts, you need to look at your riding techniques, just because a rider is fast or rides a lot, doesn't mean that they are doing it right. Your probably too often running too high a gear, and using raw power to compensate, and that's leading to broken parts. It's usually hard on the knees as well, and when you pass 40, things like knees that have been abused for years start to tell you about it.

You also need to review your bicycle maintenance, a bicycle needs a servicing every once in a while, about every 100km or so, you should wipe down the chain, check it for stretch and then lube. The only time I have seen a rider break a chain was because it had not been maintained properly. There are other services that need to be done as well, to keep from destroying components.

bigfred 

Stout they are. But, the move to Auckland is proving too much for them. There's not much you can do about avoiding road hazards when you're drafting a bus. I understand and agree with your point about torque vs. other wheel requirements. We still have to remember that the final delivery of torque still falls to the rear wheel, in addition to side loads whilst sprinting and hill climbing. Maybe next time, I can get you to put your finger in the mouse trap

No sweat. I'm just as tired of actually riding 36 spoke wheels. "Sometimes" there's a reason why something becomes the gospel I'm thinking that we (the clydes) need a "Clyde wheel facts and myths" sticky at the top of the forum. It seems as though it's one of the more frequently repeated themes. Perhaps you and Wogster can author it.

With regard to your suggestion about pedal stroke: Trust me, I try. I don't currently, but towards that ends, have in the past, spent lots of time on rollers.

bigfred 

No problems mate. I think you got the point, loud and clear. I get the fealing that the whole discussion about wheel requirements is one of those situations where people end up arguing toward the same ends. We're all in agreement that there are many things to consider in the correct choice for a rider. Possibly, too many to cover on an internet forum(I intentionally left out my maintenance and life expectancy considerations). See my suggestion above about you and Bully or others, authoring a "Clyde Wheels" article. It seems to come up a lot.

Tom Stormcrowe

Now, me, I'm one of the 36 spoke people, but I make it as clear as I can that my focus is to build as trouble free wheel as I can by using a hand built wheel and tensioned by a master wheelsmith using as strong a rim as is available. If I spec a wheel for myself, it would stand up to racing on cobblestones, basically, like in the Paris-Roubaix. My wheel of personal choice is the Velocity Deep V in a 36 spoke setup.

I've got 2 years now on this set of Deep V's and after the initial retension at 300 miles, haven't had to touch them, and I'm not easy on a bike. My focus is utter reliability, period.