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-   -   Wheels with real spokes (http://www.bikeforums.net/clydesdales-athenas-200-lb-91-kg/540431-wheels-real-spokes.html)

rumrunn6 05-11-09 11:09 AM

Wheels with real spokes
 
I've been having issues with my rear wheel on my favorite 700c bike. Broke 2 spokes during past 2 weeks. It has the kind of wheel that doesn't have as many spokes as other wheels I've seen. Anyone else have similar problems? What wheel did you get to replace your rear wheel?

BTW: I weight 215.

Sixty Fiver 05-11-09 11:14 AM

Low spoke count wheels have this issue where, if you frag one spoke the wheel becomes un-rideable and after you break a few it's a sign that you are going to need to replace them all...this is true with any wheel when spoke breakage becomes a chronic issue.

The problem could be stemming from a bad build as a guy your size should be able to ride some lighter wheels without issue.

What kind of wheels are these ?

rumrunn6 05-11-09 11:50 AM

I'm guessing they are aluminum. They came stock on this bike: Schwinn Trailway

http://www.amazon.com/Men%2592s-Schw.../dp/B000KZ1G7Q

Sixty Fiver 05-11-09 12:13 PM

You have an entry level bike that is sure to have been equipped with some machine built wheels that can often be prone to problems as they are not properly de-stressed and this can lead to loosened spokes / fatigue / breakage.

I am not a fan of the wheel offerings on many current hybrids as these low spoke wheels seem to be equipped more for fashion than function and I do have to deal with lots of these problem wheels at my shop.

In most cases buying a bike from a store that is not an actual bike shop warrants a trip to your lbs so the bike can be checked over and make sure things are set up properly and this includes the wheels as if this is done the incidence of problems is much reduced.

If you still have a warranty on the bike I would go back to the seller and tell them about the wheel issues and they should offer a replacement wheel that you could have pre - serviced before you ride.

This should cost $20.00 - $30.00.

I had one customer buy a higher end Trek FX that had nothing but issues with her wheels and at my suggestion she returned her bike to the LBS that replaced her low spoke wheels with a conventional set of wheels that have been problem free. There was a small fee as her new wheels were much better than what was originally equipped.

You don't need high end parts to build a good wheel and I still see hundreds of bikes running around on old single walled alloy rims that are solid as a rock and run a good number of these myself...if they are built well they will stand up to a lot of riding.

My friend hits the curb at 240 and is a monster rider... his ss runs 36 spoke single walled wheels and they have not come undone in 1000's of kilometres of riding but then, he also has a friend who builds a decent wheel.

CliftonGK1 05-11-09 12:55 PM

Totally agree w/ everything above.

I'm 250 pounds and I have a few pairs of wheels which I beat on a routine basis. Like they owe me money. None of my road wheels are more than 32 spoke count, and here's my tricks to keeping them in rideable condition:

3 cross lacing pattern.
14ga (straight ga) spokes. They're heavier and transfer more chatter from the road, but they make for a really toughass wheel.
28mm tires. Big guys need more cushion between the wheel and the road, and I find a 28mm tire gives me the speed I want along with the flat/rim-ding protection I need.

Handbuilt, or minimally, machine built and hand re-tensioned wheels will be the strongest that you can get.

Sixty Fiver 05-11-09 01:03 PM

Heh... I don't have a wheel with less than 32 spokes.

Those are on my mountain bike and touring bike as everything else is 36/3 or 36/4.

(I'm a runt btw)

rumrunn6 05-11-09 01:05 PM

what does that mean?

"36/3 or 36/4"

Does it refer to how the spokes are grouped?

Sixty Fiver 05-11-09 01:15 PM

Spokes are laced in a wide number of different patterns and these are usually chosen to maximize function.

Your wheels have paired spokes whereas a traditional wheel has crossed spokes with a 3 cross being pretty much standard although some wheels are 2 cross or have as many as 5 crosses which increases lateral strength.

This is the rear wheel I built for my 1948 Rudge and it has 40 spokes in a 4 cross pattern which is how many English rear wheels were built back in the day..touring and tandem wheels are also often built with 36 or 40 spokes in a a 3 or 4 cross pattern to make a much stronger wheel.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/rudgewheel.jpg

The front wheel on my touring bike is a tandem wheel... it has 40 spokes in a 3 cross pattern and was made to handle massive loads and riding stresses but is still rather lightweight.

rumrunn6 05-11-09 01:19 PM

Wow! & thanks for the explanation. I've seen your rig in other threads!

Sixty Fiver 05-11-09 01:20 PM

A 36/3

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/wheel36.jpg

Sixty Fiver 05-11-09 01:22 PM

There really seems to be no end of lacing patterns and I am leaning toward building one of these...

http://www.minortriad.com/wheel.jpg

CliftonGK1 05-11-09 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 8897446)
There really seems to be no end of lacing patterns and I am leaning toward building one of these...

http://www.minortriad.com/wheel.jpg

That's a 3L/3T, right? (3 leading, 3 trailing)

Bone Head 05-11-09 05:36 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This may be overkill .....

Sixty Fiver 05-11-09 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CliftonGK1 (Post 8897518)
That's a 3L/3T, right? (3 leading, 3 trailing)

Yep.

Pretty to look at and without any inadequacy in strength.

Sixty Fiver 05-11-09 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bone Head (Post 8899113)
This may be overkill .....

Ya think ?

The cost of those wheels is staggering due to the components you need and the fact good spokes run a 1.00 each plus.

subclavius 05-11-09 05:58 PM

I'm 240 and I haven't broken a spoke yet (knocks on wood)...

Jeff Wills 05-11-09 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 8897446)
There really seems to be no end of lacing patterns and I am leaning toward building one of these...

I don't see why not. I built a 36-spoke wheel in a crow's-foot pattern:
http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/...es/bike034.htm

FWIW: I ordered spokes from Icyclesusa.com. They'll cut spokes in any length, in any quantity. Dandy for people like me who build whackdoodle wheels.

chunkyd 05-11-09 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEO http://www.bikeforums.net/images/buttons/viewpost.gif there's vegetarian bacon? what the hell is it made out of ?


Marrock: "Soy and hate."
LOL!! Love it!!!

i'm around and have been riding at 370+ I went with a Velocity Deep-V 36h - 14g - 3 cross on the rear and it's been amazing!!

Sixty Fiver 05-11-09 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunkyd (Post 8900957)
LOL!! Love it!!!

i'm around and have been riding at 370+ I went with a Velocity Deep-V 36h - 14g - 3 cross on the rear and it's been amazing!!

My Girl's step father is a huge guy and although I could not build his wheels was able to give some input on the parts she needed to get (the wheels were a gift) and his wheels are built almost identically to yours by a qualified wheel builder.

He can't break these wheels and for the first time in a very long time can ride a road bike.

Sixty Fiver 05-11-09 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Wills (Post 8900928)
I don't see why not. I built a 36-spoke wheel in a crow's-foot pattern:
http://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/...es/bike034.htm

FWIW: I ordered spokes from Icyclesusa.com. They'll cut spokes in any length, in any quantity. Dandy for people like me who build whackdoodle wheels.

I figure the new front wheel for my fixed gear folder will be as whackdoodle as the bike.

andrelam 05-12-09 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumrunn6 (Post 8896413)
I've been having issues with my rear wheel on my favorite 700c bike. Broke 2 spokes during past 2 weeks. It has the kind of wheel that doesn't have as many spokes as other wheels I've seen. Anyone else have similar problems? What wheel did you get to replace your rear wheel?

BTW: I weight 215.

I weigh the same, but carry about 35 Lbs worth of gear/food/dink each day. My 1st wheel on my Gary Fisher (Bontrager Camino if memory serves me right) lasted about 800 miles before it started blowing spokes left and right. The replacement wheel must have gotten a little extra attention by the staff at the bike shop as it was fine for about 2500 before it lost its 1st spoke. Around the 3000 mile mark the 2nd wheel lost two spokes within a few weeks. That is when I knew I needed to just buy a good wheel and not try to get a 3rd wheel ordered up from the factory.

The factory wheels was 32 spokes. For greater strength I went with a 36 spoke wheel and also went with a very strong Velocity Dyad rim. The Dyad has a semi-aero design, yet you don't need to use extra long valve stems. The more "V" like shape is also great when riding in lousy weather (i.e. snow/slush/rain) as it sheds the moisture off the wheel nicely. The wheel stays significantly cleaner. With rain I don't care, but with now/slush that is definitely a bonus.

I had my wheel made by Peter White. Peter does a great job. I ended up using a Shimano XT hub as he recommended it for being robust yet very reasonably prices. Admittedly between my Generator hub front wheel and the now matching rear wheel, my wheels are worth about as much as I paid for the entire bike (about $250 each for the front and rear wheel). At least I don't have to worry about the wheels. A well built wheel will last a long time.

Happy riding,
André

rumrunn6 05-12-09 10:17 AM

thanks Andre, my wheels are slightly aero in design too. once I get that wheel back from my LBS if they ever do the spoke-true, I'm not going to ride on it - I'll pay to fix it but save it - and shop for a replacement from an LBS.

Either that or buy a Surly Long Haul Trucker

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/surly/longhaul.htm

I think I've heard good things about them on this forum and the wheels sound like they are stong enough for me.

The Motobecane Fantom CX sounds good to me too:

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/..._cross_cx3.htm

chunkyd 05-12-09 12:09 PM

Rumrunn6 - My Motobecane CX should be here today actually! It'll be my second purchase from Bikesdirect. I think the Long Haul trucker is a amazing touring bike but for the money i really enjoy having 2 good bikes with different purposes for the cost of one really. (Dawes lightning and Motobecane CX). I'm a heavy guy and the Dawes has been a champ for me!

rumrunn6 05-12-09 12:12 PM

chunkyd - Wow! Thanks.

Why did you choose the Motobecane CX?
Why did you not choose the Long Haul Trucker?
I don't recall the Dawes lightning specs - what's good about that bike?

chunkyd 05-12-09 12:24 PM

What good about the Dawes.. hmm hahah .. it was my first updated road bike.. and other then no component failure (until recently because of me mashing) it hasn't failed me yet.
I'm not a bike expert but i do ride with plenty of cyclist on very expensive bikes and perhaps ignorance is bliss because i can't tell the difference other than weight. The dawes is a little heavy and has a cheaper shimano drivetrain but i had it adjusted once and it was true and steady.

I chose the Motobecame because of its pricing and comparable componets after looking online at other stock bikes. It had many of great reviews from some hardcore CX riders so if it can put up with that punishment then i'm sure it'll hold me up fine.

The long haul trucker has a unarguable history of being a monster! and just doing what its suppose to! I don't think i've read one complaint online! I just looked at the cost plus with the other thing i needed to buy and tryed to pick the next best thing for the cost.


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