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-   -   good inexpensive clyd wheelset or bits? (

donalson 05-20-09 07:18 PM

good inexpensive clyd wheelset or bits?
so the mavic cosmos wheelset was shot down... shame being they where only $70...

anyway... in the mean time I'll be rolling the stock wheelset... but i'd like to upgrade to a cassette from the freewheel...

so whats a good inexpensive rim/hub option? i've been looking to build my own wheelset anyway so maybe this will be a good time to learn :)

Staggerwing 05-20-09 07:59 PM

What is your budget?

Spend some time doodling around on Peter Whites web site for some ideas. If it is touring ready, then its clyde ready.

36 spoke, 3 cross on Ultegra hubs for a road build (130mm rear) an the same on an XT hub if you have a 132.5 or 135mm rear dropout. Use quality (Wheelsmith or DT Swiss) double butted spokes with traditional plate brass nipples (Not alloy).

Velocity Dyad, Mavic A719 or Open Sport, Sun CR-18 and Salsa Delgado's are all decent rim choices. You can add a Mavic Open Pro to the list if you keep your tire width to 28 or below.

For better or worse, a little digging will often reveal an already built wheelset for less than you can do it yourself.

For example, exhibit 1:
Not very exciting, but with that build, they should be mighty durable. If I was doing it myself, I would have picked DB spokes, but that would have added another $25 to the build.

You can also often find Ultegra/Open Pro sets cheap. I just picked up a 32 spoke set for $211 (On sale, coupons, yada yada) at PBike. Couldn't find anything wrong with the build. Sadly, just the parts alone would cost me about $350.

Colorado Cyclist will do a 36 spoke, DB, Ultegra/Open Pro set for about $350. Not inexpensive, but should be a 20,000 mile set of wheels, if you treat them decent.

bigfred 05-21-09 03:07 PM

^ That pretty much covers it. Regardless of who builds your wheels, there will be a short breaking in period. Carefully retension them, or have it done, after the first few hundred miles and you should be good to go.

donalson 05-21-09 03:25 PM

budget is subjective... biggest thing I want is to get of that rampless POS freewheel... i'm on a fairly limited "toy" budget but could save up a decent bit.

i'm VERY tempted to cold set the frame to 132.5... i've got a spare set of 32h XTR hubs laying around... also may have my hopeXC/salsa delgado x wheelset laying around here soon

for now i'll just ride what came on the bike... I trued, redished, and retensioned the wheels up at the shop today (thanks mark for letting me use the stand)...

bike is almost ready... gota install the new shifters, need the proper stem and some bar tape... geting close :)

Staggerwing 05-21-09 04:44 PM

Just as a thought, perhaps don't give up on the idea of a freewheel yet.

If 7-speed works for you, give on of Shimano's cheap modern freewheels a shot (for example). They are dirt cheap, nicely made, and shift like a dream. I have one on my commuter, with indexing, bar-end shifters.

You can spend almost triple on an Interloc, and, from my experience, I'm not sure you are getting a better freewheel. The plating on mine started flaking off within 1000 miles, and the pawls got fouled up and needed cleaning. Didn't shift any better than the Shimano either. Of course, YMMV.

If you can be satisfied with a freewheel, you can keep your eye out for a set of Phil Woods hubs. Truly, a bike part you can hand down to your grandkids. Bulletproof, easy to service, smooth as glass, and made in the US too. Phil makes a more modern freehub type too, but at almost twice the cost.

Bone Head 05-21-09 05:27 PM


Originally Posted by bigfred (Post 8961288)
^ That pretty much covers it. Regardless of who builds your wheels, there will be a short breaking in period. Carefully retension them, or have it done, after the first few hundred miles and you should be good to go.

Just want to reiterate the importance of getting them retensioned after a few hundred miles. It will prevent broken spokes later on.....

donalson 05-21-09 05:27 PM

biggest thing is i'm worried about bending the freewheel axle... i'm a 300# guy...

would love a set of phil's (have one of his BB's in my MTB :)

from what little i've ridden the bike it seems the 7spd is a tad to wide for me on the road... I'll prob give one of the shimano freewheels a try, they are cheap although VERY heavy (played with one at the shop today)

bigfred 05-21-09 06:13 PM


Originally Posted by donalson (Post 8961959)
biggest thing is i'm worried about bending the freewheel axle... i'm a 300# guy...

What make and model hub are we dealing with? I've ridden most of the stuff out there at one point or another and the only ones that were particularly prone to failure were the lightest of lightened highend race groups or the cheapest of knock-off or noname stuff.

There are, of course, exceptions. Early Heli-o-matic freehubs were notorious for locking up, a not so pleasant occurance that I had the displeasure of experiencing.

Anyhow, be a bit more specific and we might be able to give you better feedback.

donalson 05-21-09 06:25 PM

it's a sansin 32h on a '93 trek 400

would be nice to think that i'm worrying over nothing... and I just looked at the price of the phill wood track hubs... def can see where that would be nice if you don't mind free hubs

bigfred 05-21-09 06:39 PM


Originally Posted by donalson (Post 8962221)
it's a sansin 32h on a '93 trek 400

would be nice to think that i'm worrying over nothing... and I just looked at the price of the phill wood track hubs... def can see where that would be nice if you don't mind free hubs

They made a wide variety of hubs and quality levels. I would ride them until I had issue with them that would warrant replacement.

From Sheldon's site:

Sanshin made Sunshine hubs. My understanding is they picked "Sunshine" as a brand name since it sounded close to Sanshin, non-Japanese had trouble pronouncing Sanshin, and Sunshine has nice English-language connotations. Around 1985 they seemed to have dropped Sunshine and labelled their product Sanshin.
In addition to producing product under their own label, Sanshin also acted as a subcontractor for SunTour; all SunTour-labelled hubs came from Sanshin. I don't know if there was any corporate cross-ownership, but, in the late '80s, Sanshin's president was Mamoru Kawai, the younger son of Junzo Kawai, Maeda/SunTour's chairman.

Sanshin's factory was in Shiga-ken, maybe an hour from Maeda's offices in Sakai-shi. In the mid-'80s they were diversifying a bit into forging auto parts. I don't know what happened to them when Maeda was purchased then went under.

Sanshin made a beautiful ProAm model high-flange hub in the late '70s. The flanges only had 5 cut-outs, leaving a distinctive star-shaped center section. Very nice bearing quality, lots of polish and pretty anodizing.

Staggerwing 05-21-09 07:17 PM

If you are patient, you should be able to find a Phil rear hub, freewheel type, for less than a c-note used. Hold out for the later type, which are all aluminum. The earlier models have a steel center body.

Heck, I have an extra black 32h, that I've been holding back, but I really think you should be on a 36 spoke wheel.

All Phils hubs have easy to service, easily replaceable bearings. You can buy still buy all parts directly from Phils, or get 'em at your local commercial bearing supplier.

Check Riv's site and read the writeup. With the 135mm, MTB width hub they sell, you can build a dishless rear wheel. Dishless=equal spoke length and tension on drive and non-drive sides=an exponentially tougher wheel. Otherwise, for a 130mm road wheel, you might want to look at one of Velocity's O/C (See here) rear rims, which will help you achieve the same state with almost any hub.

DieselDan 05-21-09 07:32 PM

You don't need to buy a whole wheelset to switch to a freehub/cassette, just the rear wheel.

socalrider 05-21-09 08:23 PM

Just remember if you are sticking with 7 speed, you will need a spacer for the modern cassette hubs..

There are a lot of nice heavy duty wheel options from RM Cyclery on ebay..

donalson 05-21-09 08:55 PM

thanks for the input Staggerwing i'm going to try out the 14-28 freewheel nice tight gearing... and calculates out to being just fine for my riding with the 42/52 crankset... and cheap to boot...

if that works out for me i may well look to a phill wood hub... also that asym wheel looks like an intresting option... would also make it nice when building my own wheel... options options....

DieselDan... ya i've thought about that... and may be the way I go... just go with a newer rear wheel untill I have more money to build another wheel

donalson 05-21-09 09:06 PM

if I went to a newer hub system i'd step up to a 9spd system... heck my shifters right now are set to friction (shimano indexing doesn't seem to like the suntour spacing)

looks like i've got lots of options... right now I ride what i've got till I feel I need something else

thanks a ton guys

Staggerwing 05-22-09 06:30 AM

Go to this page, and about 2/3rds of the way down, Sheldon posted a table of gear center-to-center spacing for almost all modern rear ends. Note that some of the Suntour 7-speed stuff had two different spacings within the same freewheel. Never going to get one of those to work properly with the Shimano Indexing System (SIS).

FWIW, is THE web repository for practical bike upkeep, especially for the out-of-fashion gear. Sadly, Sheldon is no longer with us, but his wisdom lives on.

The modern Shimano, and Interloc, 7-speed freewheels will index perfectly with any 7-speed SIS shifter you want to through at 'em. Mountain, down tube, bar end, or integrated, doesn't matter.

I like 9 speed too; still a standard in the MTB world, although out of favor for road applications. Cheaper and slightly heavier duty chains, 10% larger center-to-center spacing on rear cogs, which makes adjustment easier, and till recently, a fairly large supply of cheap used parts from those upgrading to the latest and greatest.

I've seen reports from some in the tandem world, that swear 9-speed is the way to go, and swear at 10-speed. I don't have any personal experience in the matter, so I don't know if the reports hold any water.

Do note, the Phils set being sold on Rivendell's site are very well thought out, albeit pricey. The flange diameters, and axle spacing, were picked to keep the same spoke length, front and rear, and drive and non-drive. Most of the wheels that I've built have required 3 spoke lengths, one for the front, one for the drive side rear, and another for the non-drive. If you are taking an extended tour, this detail would be important.

donalson 05-22-09 08:16 AM

ya when it wouldn't index right thats what I found... no big deal for now friction works just fine... should work just fine when I goto a shimano freewheel...

been loving sheldon brown's info for years... apparently he was a member here before he passed (very shortly before i started using his web page)... neat to read his stuff.

yup 9spd is the norm and still widely avalible which is the big reason i'd go with a 9spd... although honestly I prefer 8spd bits (as far as MTB) and am another person dreading them forcing 10spd down our throats (only a matter of time before it happens and they start phasing out the good 9spd stuff)

thanks again :)

Jtgyk 05-22-09 08:26 AM

These are the wheels (Alex DH19 rims on a Deore 36h Hub) I'm using right now.
So far, they're rock steady (I did have the spokes checked for proper tension)

On Sale Here:

donalson 05-22-09 08:38 AM

those are the same rims that came wone one of my 29ers... have held up just fine but how wide of tire do i have to use?... i mounted a 25c just for fun and it was RIGHT at the limits... to the point that the side walls where just as wide as the rim... did fit the 700x32c cross tires no problem though

for $80 thats a sweet deal though.

Jtgyk 05-22-09 08:54 AM

I have them on the touring rig, so I have 700x35 (90psi) on them now. Cushy ride (and they haven't slowed me down). I don't normally ride anything smaller than a 25c anyway.

Jtgyk 05-22-09 08:55 AM

Tire sizes (From the link toward the bottom)

700 x 20 - 700 x 35

donalson 05-22-09 09:56 AM

they are smoking crack if they think a 20 tire would be OK haha

Pinyon 05-22-09 10:50 AM

Just thought that I would mention the stock Jalco Dynamics wheel-set that came with my 2008 Specialized Allez. I weigh about 255 lbs, and they have held up nicer than even my hand-built Mavic Open Pros on my older bike. I haven't even had to true them yet. The spoke tension has remained steady around the back wheel as well.

My plan was and is to ride them until they die, but I thought that they would already be toasted by now. The brake surfaces were a little rough when they were new (loud flakes of aluminum embed into the brake pads - even koolstops), but they smoothed right in after a 1000 miles or so (spinning the tire while holding a green nylon scrubby pad against the brake surface helped stop this too). No other complaints at all about these rims. They have a deeper-V shape than most wheels, and wire-bead Ultra Gatorskin tires are a real pain to slip over the rim. That is true of many rims these days, though.

Lots of people switch these stock tires out as soon as they get a new Specialized bike. There are a lot of them in the back of my local Specialized dealership. They use them on all of their rental bikes, and sell them to people that are looking for a bargain. I've yet to hear anyone but weight-weenies complain about them. They are also lighter than a lot of tires that they recommend for Clydes.

Worth looking around to see if you can find a pair.

donalson 05-23-09 05:20 PM

putting more thought into this... i've been happy with the 36h salsa delgado's on my 29er...

are they going to be ok with a 700x28 tire?

also have some old xtr m950 32h non disc hubs, rear has a ti axle and freehub... would these be OK?

Staggerwing 05-24-09 08:59 AM

According to Salsa info, the Delgado has a 22.5mm width. If you go over to Peter Whites site, that width crosses up to a Sun CR-18, which he indicates is appropriate for 25-35mm tire widths. I would defer to his wisdom, as he has a lot more experience.

FWIW, I'm right at the clyde boundary (200lbs) and the smallest tire I run in a 25 on my old Serotta steel race frame. Everyday tire is a 28 on my commuter, and I have 32's on an office bike. At your size, a 32 makes a lot of sense.

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