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Thread: Hubs

  1. #1
    Senior Member timmythology's Avatar
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    Hubs

    In building a new wheel, how important is the Hub?

    I have decided on a deep v rim, but am wondering about the hub. The current hub on my rear wheel is a generic Alloy Hub, that came with an alex rim. Which has been re tensioned and trued twice since I purchased the bike on 4/28. So I am wondering what the role of the hub is, and its importance to a nice wheel. I weigh 285 and feel that I am wanting a stronger wheel at this time.

    Thanks for your time

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    A bit more info would be helpful. Road? FixedGear? Better define what you would consider "nice" about a wheel. Low weight? Durable? Low rolling resistance? What is your riding pattern and what sort of conditions? What are you on now?
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    Senior Member timmythology's Avatar
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    More info

    I am riding a trek 1.2 with stock wheels here (( http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/1_series/12/ ))
    I am riding roads in Oregon, that have some cracks, and debris on them. Nice, I am wanting a wheel that does not need to be brought in to the shop every week, or after a ride to have it re tensioned. I am considering the deep v's for my weight, 285. I am not sure what you mean by riding pattern. This is a new bike that I am only using for weekend rides of 40 miles plus. Conditions are sunny days since I have not weather proofed it yet.

    Just trying to figure out the importance of a hub in the wheel build. Other than it is imortant, but not the why.

    Thanks

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    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmythology View Post
    I am riding a trek 1.2 with stock wheels here (( http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/1_series/12/ ))
    I am riding roads in Oregon, that have some cracks, and debris on them. Nice, I am wanting a wheel that does not need to be brought in to the shop every week, or after a ride to have it re tensioned. I am considering the deep v's for my weight, 285. I am not sure what you mean by riding pattern. This is a new bike that I am only using for weekend rides of 40 miles plus. Conditions are sunny days since I have not weather proofed it yet.

    Just trying to figure out the importance of a hub in the wheel build. Other than it is imortant, but not the why.

    Thanks
    Hubs are very important, but choosing one over another typically isn't, unless your into speciality wheels. It needs to match the width, number of gears on the cassette and number of holes for spokes. Go with an Ultegra and you will be fine. If you can, it's a good idea to keep your existing wheels if you run into a wheel problem in the future, you can slap the old one on while the other one is in the shop
    Last edited by Wogster; 06-04-09 at 06:09 PM.

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    Senior Member socalrider's Avatar
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    Like said above Ultegra would be a fine choice for a hub, I would go with a minimum of 32 spokes while a 36 hole deep V would be bombproof.. On sale now at Nashbar.. If price is not an issue I would also look at Chris King or American Classic hubs that build up very nice due to the high flange nature of the hub.. Shorter spokes make a stiffer wheel build..

    http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._200276_200428

    http://amclassic.com/products/hubs/road205.php

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    Senior Member timmythology's Avatar
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    So than a better hub can handle more torque, which is a good thing.

    Thanks

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    Senior Member timmythology's Avatar
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    So than a rear wheel with a 36 hole ultegra hub with the deep v rims would be bombproof?

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    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmythology View Post
    So than a rear wheel with a 36 hole ultegra hub with the deep v rims would be bombproof?
    Pretty much, especially using a 3 cross weave, and hand built/tensioned.
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    Timmy,

    If you look at the top of the Clyde forum, in the stickies, Air has a catalog of frequently covered subjects. Amongst them, there are several excellent threads about clyde wheels. Or, just use the search function and look at any of the three or so recent threads in this forum covering exactly that.
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    Senior Member timmythology's Avatar
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    I have been reading about wheels and such. Just have not found anything on the importance of the actual hub. Since I am wanting to get a wheel built, I am trying to decide what the difference in hubs is, and if it is important. Sorry, but there is a big price difference on hubs. Which makes me want to know a little more on it. In order to make an informed decision. But after reading it seems that a shimano 105 is the best bang for the buck on hubs, since I do not plan on racing.

    Thanks

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    I just had a set built by Sellwood Cycle Repair. Mavic CXP33 with Ultegra hubs.
    The best upgrade I've done. Another place in Portland is Universal Cycles.
    I chose Sellwood Cycle as they'll true them for life. Got about 500 miles on them
    and they're still perfect.

  12. #12
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    105's are great hubs! I have some on my roadies. Several riders I know have Dura Ace and super duper hubs. Doesn't make a difference! Those that think so can't keep up with me!...Now that I've been training and losing weight, the105's are even faster and climb better!

    My thought is that the 32 hub is stronger tha n the 36 hole. Reason being, more holes in the same flange means weaker structure. Less meat between holes. I've always thought so. I had a bud, same weight 36 hubs and mine 32. His Ultegra hub broke and mine hasn't.

    But what do I know, I have 19,000 miles on my self built Deep V's with no problems!

  13. #13
    Senior Member socalrider's Avatar
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    32 or 36 hole will be fine.. make sure to stick with Double Butted or Straight gauge spokes.. Stay away from the lightweight Revolution spokes, they can be a little fragile for clydes.

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    Any hub will bear the weight based on the quality of the wheel build. The better quality the hub, the smoother it will roll.
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    I've got a Cross Check, so I have the option of 130mm (most new road hubs) or 135mm (MTB hubs) and I've noticed no difference between the two. A Deep V isn't a light rim, so it's not like you'll be sacrificing anything if you have the option and go with a heavier MTB hub for your build.

    The overall importance of the hub depends on what aspect you're talking about. A higher flange hub allows for shorter spokes and a stiffer, stronger wheel. Some hubs have better seal protection for the bearings, which comes into play if you ride in bad weather all the time. While a freehub does the same thing on a $300 hub as it does on a $30 hub, the number and quality of the pawls on a more expensive hub usually lends to a smoother operation; especially when going from coasting to pedalling again, well built hubs are less likely to have a 'gap' before the ratcheting mechanisms catch. Some hubs are more easily serviceable than others, if doing your own wrenching is your thing.
    Generally, any mid-level hub is going to function just fine. There's no need to go with the super expensive (Dura Ace, King, XTR, DT's high end stuff, etc.).
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  16. #16
    Senior Member timmythology's Avatar
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    Thanks for the information.

    Know I just can't wait until the fifteenth to get it done.

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    Timmy,

    Sorry if my initial response came off as a bit sihtty. It's just that you asked a very open ended question that could require a lot of writing to respond to properly without indicating that you had put much effort into finding the answer to your question on your own.

    First off, if you've only had your bike for a little over a month and you're wheels have only been re-tensioned twice, don't give up on them yet. I have no idea of the quality of the mechanic that has been working on them at your lbs. But, what you're after is a Master Wheelsmith. And, one who owns a tension gauge. If you can find one of these, they may be able to tune you wheels to such an extent that they work quite well for you for some time.

    With regard to the quality and durability of a wheel build, while hubs are important, spoke size, count and pattern are probably more important. Second is probably rim choice and finally in third is hub quality. As has already been touched upon most hubs with 32 to 36 holes will hold the weight. To choose amongst them, it comes down to initial quality concerns and ultimately durability concerns.

    While high end racing components(Deore XTR, Dura-Ace, etc) may work for some clydes, they offer no increase in durability and in fact sacrifice such in order to shave weight through the use of Aluminum or Titanium in place of heavier but more durable steel in some areas. At the less expensive end of things(Sora, Tiagra, etc) you loose the closer tolerances and smooth operation that you get with mid range components. The bearing races may not be as smooth, etc. For road wheels the 105 hubs you mentioned are in fact an excellent bang-for-buck choice. So are Ultegra hubs. Both of these should be capable of building up into a perfectly strong wheel that is limited by it's spoke count and pattern more than the hub. Both hubs should outlast their first set of rims and perhaps their second. That would depend on your maintenace of them and the conditions they are exposed to. If you're considering lots of mileage or usage that will see you exposing your hubs to inclement weather, sealed bearings are something to investigate. These will not be as affordable as the Shimano hubs already listed but will provide better durability in bad conditions and less maintenance as they don't need to be cleaned or repacked.

    So, I guess my answer to your question about how important are hubs in the wheel building equation, is, they come in third behind spoke choices and rim considerations. Something like your generic Alu hubs could be rebuilt into a perfectly strong wheel, but, I would be surprised if they would be in reasonable condition when those rims were ready for retirement. 105's you could probably get two wheels out of, or more. The Ultegra's that are currently on my road bike are on their third set of rims and will be set aside when they are done.

    Honestly appraise how many miles you think you'll put on your bike. Those of us who are cycling a fair bit, regularly put 5k-10k miles per year on a set of wheels. For us it pays to have hubs that we can expect to get 20k-30k+ miles out of. On the road those tend to be Ultegra's or equivalent.

    I hope this helps. Oh, and by the way, amongst the Campy Records and Rolf's and all they other wheels in the garage/storage unit, my wife and I still keep a pair of 32 spoke, Shimano Tiagra, Mavic CXP11 wheels as our emergency back ups.
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    Sheldon said Shimano held a patent which moved the RH bearing cup further outboard and gave the axle more support. I did bend an off-brand freehub axle once. However, they've been building freehubs for a long time now and the patent may have expired.

  19. #19
    Senior Member timmythology's Avatar
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    Thanks Fred, for the long version.

    As far as riding I have doing a lot more since I picked up the road bike. I just don't and won't use this bike for my commute. So will most likely ride between 2-300 miles a month on during fair weather. More once I have it set up with a storage system for food, camera, and tripod.

    I planned on replacing the wheels at time of purchase since they are really light weight, the LBS tried to direct me to the Kona Jake, and dew drop as a better fit for me. Since they had stronger wheels stock. They where just not as zippy of a bike, which is why I got the trek, it is zippy. So now I want/need to build a better back wheel.

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselDan View Post
    Any hub will bear the weight based on the quality of the wheel build. The better quality the hub, the smoother it will roll.
    So true. On my Gary Fisher hybrid I replaced the OEM front wheel with a wheel built by Peter White using the Shimano 71 series generator hub (uses Ultegra bearings). Even with the resistance from the generator hub, the new wheel still spins longer and smoother than the OEM Brontrager wheel.

    When I needed to replace my rear wheel because I was starting to pop spokes like crazy again, I had Peter build me a matching rear wheel (Velocity Dyad rims). I asked about what hub he recommended. He pointed me to the very reasonably priced Shimano XT (around $60). I could have spent $200 on a higher end hub, but he found the XT to be nearly as durable and a great bang for the buck. The new wheel spins smoother than the OEM Brontager wheel, just like the situation in the front.

    You don't have to spend a fortune, but you do want to get good quality components. In my case a cheap cr@ppy hub was something like $20. A high quality hub was $60 and a super nice hub was aroud $200. Paying an extra $40 was no big deal if it provides better service over its life. Paying an extra $160... even the expert told me it was over-kill.

    Happy riding,
    André

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    Quote Originally Posted by timmythology View Post
    In building a new wheel, how important is the Hub?

    I have decided on a deep v rim, but am wondering about the hub. The current hub on my rear wheel is a generic Alloy Hub, that came with an alex rim. Which has been re tensioned and trued twice since I purchased the bike on 4/28. So I am wondering what the role of the hub is, and its importance to a nice wheel. I weigh 285 and feel that I am wanting a stronger wheel at this time.

    Thanks for your time
    This sounds like the same wheel that came on my Fuji Absolute. I just had mine retensioned and trued as a short term solution, but in the long term im getting a wheel built. Probably the same hub, but Im going to talk to the guy and see.

  22. #22
    Mike the Bike
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmythology View Post
    In building a new wheel, how important is the Hub?

    I have decided on a deep v rim, but am wondering about the hub. The current hub on my rear wheel is a generic Alloy Hub, that came with an alex rim. Which has been re tensioned and trued twice since I purchased the bike on 4/28. So I am wondering what the role of the hub is, and its importance to a nice wheel. I weigh 285 and feel that I am wanting a stronger wheel at this time.

    Thanks for your time
    STOP RIGHT THERE now that I have your attention... You've had the wheels trued twice since you bought it at the end of April. That would be appropriate for a new bike if you weighed 185 or even 135. Spokes stretch and need re-adjustment once or twice in the first couple of months.

    Why do you want deep V rims? They really aren't stronger. if you break a spoke or two, or find your wheel getting significantly out of true over the next 6 months (e.g. rubbing a break pad that's properly adjusted giving you the shhhh shhhh shhh noise) then consider something like a 32 hole 105 or Ultegra laced to Mavic CXP22 or A719 rims. You can't get much stronger than that without going uber expensive.

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