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Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) Looking to lose that spare tire? Ideal weight 200+? Frustrated being a large cyclist in a sport geared for the ultra-light? Learn about the bikes and parts that can take the abuse of a heavier cyclist, how to keep your body going while losing the weight, and get support from others who've been successful.

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Old 06-30-09, 08:29 AM   #101
Wogster
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Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
How many riders have had this happen? I'm sure you've read lots of useless F.U.D. on the Internet, but how many documented cases are we talking about here? How many companies have been sued out of business when their carbon fiber bicycles failed while Just Riding Along? You seem to be suggesting that frame disintegration is a common failure mode for carbon fiber frames, so why don't you point us to some concrete proof?
I wouldn't know, here is the point I was trying to make, it is technically possible after a crash to damage a carbon frame, it is possible for that frame to appear fine, and then fail at some later point, because of internal damage. You don't always have the opportunity to choose when it's going to fail, if your short on luck it will fail during a 25MPH descent, and that is going to hurt. That has nothing to do with the way a frame with a different type of material can fail. I certainly didn't intend that it was the only, or even a very common way for CF frames to fail. It is possible though for a CF frame to fail, after being damaged in such a way that the damage isn't easily noticed.

Aluminum frames can suffer stress fractures, is it common, is it the only way for an AL frame to fail, probably not in either case. Steel frames can rust through, how common is that, nobody really knows, but bicycle purchasers need to be aware of all of these potential problems. I also do not know the failure modes for Ti, I don't know if Ti was ever common enough to show potential failure modes.

It's probably a good idea, after a serious crash to have any bike checked over by a competent mechanic, no matter what it is made of.
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Old 06-30-09, 10:06 AM   #102
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Here's an article that i just pulled up on this topic:

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-Strong...ke?&id=2394740

Biased? Hopefully not but in the end it's your choice. By the way, Ti seems to have the highest resistance to failure. I've heard people say that Ti fails too, but I have yet to talk to someone who knows someone (or have personally experienced) Ti failure. They are fairly common here in So. Cal. Not as common as the other three materials but common nonetheless. I ride aluminum and have experienced failure. However, the frame did stay together.

Last edited by terbennett; 06-30-09 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 06-30-09, 10:34 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by billydonn View Post
There is a generation of LeMond frames from about 2004-2006 that have lightweight steel spine and CF fork and top section (toptube, seatpost and seat stays). They can be had on eBay for decent prices and will be Buenos Aires, Munich, Maillot Jaune and maybe some other models. Very nice-riding frames and pretty light too. Not available at LBS of course.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 06-30-09, 12:33 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by terbennett View Post
Here's an article that i just pulled up on this topic:

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-Strong...ke?&id=2394740

Biased? Hopefully not but in the end it's your choice.
Biased? I'm sure it represents the authors opinion accurately.

Since the author doesn't provide any evidence to support that opinion, I'd say it's impossible to know whether it is correct or not. The good thing is: he also seems to be an expert on chipper/shredders, composting, vintage guitars, and cowboy boot spurs which means that he probably knows quite a lot about the successful engineering and manufacture of carbon fiber bicycle frames...

Quote:
By the way, Ti seems to have the highest resistance to failure. I've heard people say that Ti fails too, but I have yet to talk to someone who knows someone (or have personally experienced) Ti failure. They are fairly common here in So. Cal. Not as common as the other three materials but common nonetheless.
Titanium tends to fail during the machining or welding phases, if it's going to fail. The failures at this stage are usually readily apparent during visual inspection. Once a titanium frame is properly assembled, they tend to last forever (assuming they're not crashed).
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Old 06-30-09, 01:05 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
Biased? I'm sure it represents the authors opinion accurately.

Since the author doesn't provide any evidence to support that opinion, I'd say it's impossible to know whether it is correct or not. The good thing is: he also seems to be an expert on chipper/shredders, composting, vintage guitars, and cowboy boot spurs which means that he probably knows quite a lot about the successful engineering and manufacture of carbon fiber bicycle frames...

Titanium tends to fail during the machining or welding phases, if it's going to fail. The failures at this stage are usually readily apparent during visual inspection. Once a titanium frame is properly assembled, they tend to last forever (assuming they're not crashed).
I agree, but aerospace guys are knowlegeable about carbon fiber at an aeronautical level, but they don't know anything about bicycle frame building. I hate companies quote a material as being in the aircraft industry(ie. carbon fiber, 7005 Aluminum, etc.) It's a completely different application and the stresses are different(not to mention the amount used for that application). Their statements are true but somewhat deceitful to the average consumer. Also, thanks for explaining the Ti failure thing. I might have to save my pennies (a lot of them) and purchase one. :-)
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Old 06-30-09, 02:06 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by terbennett View Post
Here's an article that i just pulled up on this topic:

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-Strong...ke?&id=2394740

Biased? Hopefully not but in the end it's your choice. By the way, Ti seems to have the highest resistance to failure. I've heard people say that Ti fails too, but I have yet to talk to someone who knows someone (or have personally experienced) Ti failure. They are fairly common here in So. Cal. Not as common as the other three materials but common nonetheless. I ride aluminum and have experienced failure. However, the frame did stay together.
Thanks for the article. However, I think one should take it with a grain of salt. Tao Schenks also wrote a few other articles on Carbon Fiber bikes:

1) Carbon Fiber Bikes http://ezinearticles.com/?Carbon-Fiber-Bikes&id=2074101
QUOTE:A second hand CF bike or CF frame will also be a great investment for the amateur athlete. Triathletes look after their equipment with infinite care and you can pretty much guarantee that any bike will be well maintained.

This kind of frame will be a costly investment, but after you have had one you will never go back. END Quote.

2) 3 Carbon Fiber Bikes to Ride Before You Die (The title isn't 3 Carbon Fiber Bikes to Ride and Die)
http://ezinearticles.com/?3-Carbon-F...Die&id=2408753
QUOTE: Want to learn more? Come over to http://www.carbon-fiber-bike.com where you can learn more about each model, manufacturer and get insights into which carbon fiber bike would suit you best.END Quote. carbon-fiber-bike.com goes on to say:
Although a titanium frame bike is very nice, cheap carbon fiber frames are more affordable and more popular. Some of the best bike frames on the market are made from carbon. Most of the industry leading frame builders now make at least one carbon fibre frame.

Oh BTW, Tao Schenks, our ezineArticles.com "expert author" (as stated on http://ezinearticles.com/?expert=Tao_Schencks) also wrote:
How to Put on Cowboy Spurs
Recycling Garden Waste
How to Create Your Own Mulch
and a few others......

Once again, I'd take whatever Tao Schenks writes with a grain of salt.

Regarding the merits of Ti vs CF vs Al vs Steel, Maybe we should all just agree to disagree.
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Old 06-30-09, 02:27 PM   #107
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Regarding the merits of Ti vs CF vs Al vs Steel, Maybe we should all just agree to disagree.
+1 I really doubt anyone's mind will be changed at this point. Possibly the original poster, probably not...

I like steel, I like the Ti that I've ridden. I love the feel of carbon. Whether it's the bikes I've ridden or just cause they have been high end, I dunno. I loved my Klein, and after the first few months HATED my Cannondale because it was so harsh.

Ride what you love, just don't settle for loving what you ride.
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Old 07-01-09, 01:30 PM   #108
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ive seen carbon frames snap a few times (one was my friends scott addict sl (i think) the drive side bottom stay snapped in a sprint) but i also know guys that have busted steel at the joints before as well
so its prolly just luck of the draw moreso over weightlimits ? dunon just my two cents
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