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Thread: Clyde Nutrition

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    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    Clyde Nutrition

    I was reading the accidental century thread and started thinking... is "clyde nutrition" different from skinny person nutrition for these longer rides? I read a lengthy brochure yesterday published by Hammer (guess what the purpose was). I'm not really in the mood to buy 4 different kinds of powders, crates of gels etc. to get through a ride... but a couple things they kept on about made sense... you need to hydrate but not OVER hydrate, you need to replace some of the electrolytes you lose but not all, and you need to replace some of the calories you eat but not all because your body can't assimilate it as fast as you can use it on a long ride. They also said Carb loading is a myth because your muscles can only hold about an hour and a half's worth of glycogen at a time anyway.

    So if I'm going for a < 2hr ride, I don't really care, water is all I need... more than two hours and I might throw a couple bananas in my jersey. More than 4 hours though and I'm not sure what to do... I used to take a little Gatorade, but I have to water it down because I'd get an upset stomach if I drank it straight. Too much sugar. Another thing I have no clue about is recovery nutrition, been reading a lot about that as well.

    Any thoughts or pointers? I'm steadily ramping up my mileage after about 8 years off the bike... this weekend's ride is about 35 miles and I'll keep going up 5-10 miles per weekend until I can actually climb hills or my pedals fall off. Or i accidentally ride a century.

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    I purposely rode a double metric this past weekend. I started my day with ciabatta toast and 2 eggs. Then I had a Snickers bar at the starting control. In the first 23 miles I drank 1.5 large bottles of water with NUUN tablets.
    At the first control stop I at a king size Snickers bar, filled my bottles and brought an extra litre in my bag.
    To the second control stop (30 more miles) I drank both my bottles with NUUN tabs, and ate a Clif Bar and some Shot Blox. At the control, I ate a half of a salami/coppa/cheddar sandwich with lettuce and mustard on ciabatta bread, and some chips. I drank another 1/2 litre of water.
    It was 53 miles to the next control stop, and no services. I loaded up an extra 1.5L of water in my bag. At 30 miles into the stage I stopped for a second lunch: almost 1/2 PB&J, Shot Blox, refill the water bottles. At the control stop (105mi total) I had more Shot Blox, the remainder of the PB&J, a 5hr Energy and more water. Refilled my bottles for the final 21 miles.
    At the final stop, I had a bag of chips and a V8 Splash tropical something-or-other. I forget exactly where, but I drank 2 bottles of Ensure Plus along this ride, too.

    I aim to average 250 - 300 cal/hr on my long rides. I use a combination of real food, lab-built "food", and liquids to get my calories. I use a combo of real food (chips and salami) and chemicals (NUUN and Endurolytes) for my electrolyte replacement.
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    I don't think "clyde nutrition" is any different than regular nutrition. I have found the pointers from Hammer to be very helpful, however I do not buy all of their products. I think a lot has to do with you and what feels right for you. Listen to your body and you can figure it out yourself. I did the LA River Ride century last weekend, I've done 5 centuries in the last 10 months. The mistake I have to stop myself from making is not eating and drinking enough early in the ride. Sometimes at the 30 mile mark I don't feel like eating yet, but if I don't I regret it later in the ride. So I have found you want to stay "ahead" of it so to speak.

    -Endurolytes from hammer work well on longer rides to prevent cramps
    -I use hammer gel in one of their flasks because it's easier than trying to rip open each gel packet. I can't tell a big difference between their gel and Gu and Powerade etc. but that is probably because I have an iron stomach and can eat just about anything (how do you think I got to be a clyde?)
    -I aim for consuming 1-24 oz bottle of fluid per hour, more if it's really hot, a little less if it's cool.
    -Food, I've done centuries stopping for a real meal, and done them on powerbars/fig newtons/crackers/etc. Pretty much your choice, but don't get behind. It works much better to munch a little bit every 45 min or so then waiting until mile 70 and trying to catch up.
    -Carb loading is an excuse to pig out

    For recovery, I now use Hammer Recoverite, but only because I am trying a specific training plan. I think the most important thing after the ride is eat something sensible as soon as possible. When I do that, I don't feel as fatigued 4 hours later and don't feel like I have to eat everything in the house.

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    anything under 1.5 hours I just drink powerade zero. Above an hour and a half I bring along nutrition also. I have found that I can keep a good pace with little nutrition out to 2.5-3 hours. My main goal is to loose weight. I started tracking calories and realized on a 30 mile ride (~1.5 hours) I was consuming 800+ calories eating 2 whole wheat eng muffins for breakfast, a couple of gels, and gatorade g2. I was like **** I am using all the calories I burn fueling for the ride. Since I have cut down to 1 eng muff w/ straw pres and powerade zero and the results have been good. my speed is improving. it is a case by case basis and to some degree depends on what your goals are.

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    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrClyde View Post
    Carb loading is an excuse to pig out.
    Hmmm, works for me. Not sure how avoiding carbs for a few days, eating salads, veges for a few days then eating a big past dinner the nigth before (so the bod stores the carbs) is an excuse for pigging out.


    On a big effort ride like Ride Around the Bear, I eat a big dinner the night before (pasta) and a big breakfast the morning of the ride. I stop at just about every stop and eat a fig newton or two, or half a banana. At the 60 mile point, a turkey sandwich. All I use is some gatorade and water.

    I dont feel the need to waste my money on fancy supplement stuff. On some training rides, others have tried to talk me into buying the expensive junk. Well maybe if they were ahead of me, I'd consider it. My thoughts are maybe they ought to invest in a $10 tub of Gatorade powder!

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    Senior Member Seattle Forrest's Avatar
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    On Saturday, I did about 30 mountain miles ( 1,400 feet of climbing, all dirt and gravel ... on 700x28! ), and then another 10 when I got home. I tied a plastic shopping bag to my bars, with a loaf of Odessa rye, some cheese, apples, and bananas. I stopped about every 45 minutes and had a snack. By the end of the ride, I felt like I might have climbed 200 feet, but not 1,400. The sun was the biggest problem for the day.

    Riding in the city, I like being able to stop at markets to buy a handful of fruit, or some other kind of food ... or a restaurant if I'm feeling rich. But sometimes you have to carry your own stuff with you. The fruit really isn't very energy dense, although it can be satisfying, and mostly holds the hunger pangs at bay. For longer rides, you probably need a bit more sustenance than you can get out of some bananas.

    I think the answer is to generally eat stuff you'd already be eating ( if Gatorade is too sweet, don't bring any ), and make sure you stop for a snack every hour or so. If you still get hungry, stop more often.
    Don't believe everything you think.

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    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    I do like the turkey sammich idea... and thanks for the other suggestions. Maybe I'll try something pre-fab for electrolytes and recovery until I figure out what the heck I'm doing.

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    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    Hmmm, works for me. Not sure how avoiding carbs for a few days, eating salads, veges for a few days then eating a big past dinner the nigth before (so the bod stores the carbs) is an excuse for pigging out.


    On a big effort ride like Ride Around the Bear, I eat a big dinner the night before (pasta) and a big breakfast the morning of the ride. I stop at just about every stop and eat a fig newton or two, or half a banana. At the 60 mile point, a turkey sandwich. All I use is some gatorade and water.

    I dont feel the need to waste my money on fancy supplement stuff. On some training rides, others have tried to talk me into buying the expensive junk. Well maybe if they were ahead of me, I'd consider it. My thoughts are maybe they ought to invest in a $10 tub of Gatorade powder!
    I think the best use of the Gatorade powder is to kill the plastic taste of the bottles. The way you energize depends on your riding style, if you absolutely must do your ride, by staying in the saddle the whole time, and not stopping at any point, then your pretty much limited to the supplement stuff. Most of which is designed for long distance racers, like the guys in the TdF. However if you stop here and there, anyway, then real food is a better way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    Hmmm, works for me. Not sure how avoiding carbs for a few days, eating salads, veges for a few days then eating a big past dinner the nigth before (so the bod stores the carbs) is an excuse for pigging out.


    On a big effort ride like Ride Around the Bear, I eat a big dinner the night before (pasta) and a big breakfast the morning of the ride. I stop at just about every stop and eat a fig newton or two, or half a banana. At the 60 mile point, a turkey sandwich. All I use is some gatorade and water.

    I dont feel the need to waste my money on fancy supplement stuff. On some training rides, others have tried to talk me into buying the expensive junk. Well maybe if they were ahead of me, I'd consider it. My thoughts are maybe they ought to invest in a $10 tub of Gatorade powder!
    I'm with you on the Gatorade. I mix it at 1/2 strength.

    Carb loading - The essence of the Hammer article IIRC is that most people use it as an excuse to overeat. That is what I meant. I'm sure it can be done properly for benefit, but according to Hammer most people will tend to consume more carbs than their body can utilize.

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    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca View Post
    supplement stuff. Most of which is designed for long distance racers, like the guys in the TdF. .
    So you are saying the TourDe France musette is filled with supplement stuff?


    Ever read about TDF musette?


    ---------------------------------------------------

    During the Tour, riders must continuously replenish foods and liquids. Before, during, and after stages, cyclists' eating and drinking habits are reminiscent of scenes of stokers shoveling coal into steam engines


    — they eat and drink that much.

    Riders' nutritional needs are the responsibility of individual teams, with some exception. During every Tour road stage, there's a designated area on the course called the feed zone or feeding station. Team representatives carrying musettes, or feeding bags with sandwiches, fruit, and energy bars. They hand off supplies to riders as they advance through the feed zone. It's cycling's version of take-out food. New water bottles are also distributed to riders in the feed zone, but musettes and water bottles must be those supplied by Tour sponsors or otherwise Tour approved.

    Outside the feed zone, riders in a breakaway can also receive supplies from their team managers' vehicles or a Tour-supplied motorcycle. Musettes and water bottles can be used in these feeding options, but these resupply situations and the designated feed zone must follow Tour-established regulations.


    Read more: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...#ixzz0qxiwTlza
    Last edited by Mr. Beanz; 06-15-10 at 05:15 PM.

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    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrClyde View Post
    Carb loading - The essence of the Hammer article IIRC is that most people use it as an excuse to overeat. That is what I meant. I'm sure it can be done properly for benefit, but according to Hammer most people will tend to consume more carbs than their body can utilize.
    Sales pitch?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    Sales pitch?
    No, someone earlier mentioned that article, I also read it, it resonated with my experience, so I mentioned it.

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    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrClyde View Post
    No, someone earlier mentioned that article, I also read it, it resonated with my experience, so I mentioned it.


    Err, I meant that Hammer will make those comments to sell the product.

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    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    So you are saying the TourDe France musette is filled with supplement stuff?


    Ever read about TDF musette?


    ---------------------------------------------------

    During the Tour, riders must continuously replenish foods and liquids. Before, during, and after stages, cyclists' eating and drinking habits are reminiscent of scenes of stokers shoveling coal into steam engines


    — they eat and drink that much.

    Riders' nutritional needs are the responsibility of individual teams, with some exception. During every Tour road stage, there's a designated area on the course called the feed zone or feeding station. Team representatives carrying musettes, or feeding bags with sandwiches, fruit, and energy bars. They hand off supplies to riders as they advance through the feed zone. It's cycling's version of take-out food. New water bottles are also distributed to riders in the feed zone, but musettes and water bottles must be those supplied by Tour sponsors or otherwise Tour approved.

    Outside the feed zone, riders in a breakaway can also receive supplies from their team managers' vehicles or a Tour-supplied motorcycle. Musettes and water bottles can be used in these feeding options, but these resupply situations and the designated feed zone must follow Tour-established regulations.


    Read more: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/conten...#ixzz0qxiwTlza
    No I'm saying that conditions where you can't really stop during a ride, like in the TdF are what supplements are intended for. Not saying it's actually used in the TdF, I was sure that most of the top racers wouldn't go near that garbage, but then some take steroids, and that's 10 times worse then anything the supplement people could put out. Personally my favourite riding food is gorp. You can make about a 1kg bag, for under $10, it doesn't seem to mind heat and because it's loose it will fit just about anywhere. You can use any kind of nuts or dried fruit, I sometimes throw in Smarties for good measure.

    Talking about fruit, my wife made a horrible mistake before she went to work this afternoon, she left a huge bowl of fresh local strawberries where I could find it....

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    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca View Post
    No I'm saying that conditions where you can't really stop during a ride, like in the TdF are what supplements are intended for. Not saying it's actually used in the TdF,
    I'm not sure of what you are saying? The above article is from the TDF they get feedbags with sandwiches. Not sure hat you mean can't stop during a ride like the TDF, they do slow down, they do stop and they do eat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
    ... I used to take a little Gatorade, but I have to water it down because I'd get an upset stomach if I drank it straight. Too much sugar. ...
    You might try Heed or another of the maltodextrin drinks. Easily digested.

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    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    Heed - looking for some... found a new bike shop near me, might stop in tomorrow to see what they have. Supposedly the guy's an uber-mechanic too and I have this shifter issue on my B bike...

    Beanz - TDF riders get feedbags because somebody else makes their sammiches and hands them to them while they're on the move. Us mortals probably can't carry that much food, nor do we ride 7 hours a day for 21 days... Plus, we're clydes, we can't survive on 2 peanuts and a ******* like those TDF guys can. LOL.

    Hammer's comments about carb loading aren't intended to sell anything, they just explain why it doesn't work. Whether you believe their rationale is up to you of course. I tried carb loading about an hour before a hard ride once... it was not, I say NOT a good idea.

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    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
    Beanz - TDF riders get feedbags because somebody else makes their sammiches and hands them to them while they're on the move. Us mortals probably can't carry that much food, .
    MY point was that riders EAT real food on rides (even the TDF), not just liquid supplements without ever stopping as posted by another member. If you had mentioned non stop long distance riding then maybe the answer would have been different. But even on long rides, it's possible to get food. I took the OP as being fueling on and for a ride, not eating on the bike while riding. If that was the case, then carbo loading never would have been mentioned.

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    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    Well, the main point of the OP, although I didn't explicitly mention it, is to solicit ideas for proper nutrition while riding *without* exactly replacing all the calories you consume during the ride. If you expend about 900 calories per hour on the bike, Hammer suggests consuming just under 300 an hour, so obviously there will be a large deficit at the end of the day. Recovery is something I've never thought about at all, other than drinking loads of water.

    I definitely like the idea of eating real food instead of glop in a foil package, so I'm glad to hear that's a popular option.

    I definitely don't like all the high fructose corn syrup and sugar that's prevalent in many of the beverages, bars & other things.

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    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
    Well, the main point of the OP, although I didn't explicitly mention it, is to solicit ideas for proper nutrition while riding *without* exactly replacing all the calories you consume during the ride.
    This part threw me off. Most riders that do over 4 hours (entering century land), eat something unless they are doing an ultra LD race.

    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
    More than 4 hours though and I'm not sure what to do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca View Post
    I think the best use of the Gatorade powder is to kill the plastic taste of the bottles. The way you energize depends on your riding style, if you absolutely must do your ride, by staying in the saddle the whole time, and not stopping at any point, then your pretty much limited to the supplement stuff. Most of which is designed for long distance racers, like the guys in the TdF. However if you stop here and there, anyway, then real food is a better way to go.
    Try some Camelback Podium bottles...Mine have been used all of this year and NO taste whatsoever from the bottle. They are THE best bottle I have used, they seal great, and are simple. No valve to pull out with your teeth, just leave the valve "open" and squirt when needed.

    I agree on real food over expensive lab-produced supplements. Granola bars work awesome, for me. I can go to Save-A-Lot and buy a box of 10 granola bars for something like $2...110 calories each. I usually take one or two on a longer ride, and when I ride long rides on the canal, I either stop for food halfway, or stop at the end and load up quick. Powerbar Endurance is actually, IMO, superior to gatorade, and taste better, too. But, gatorade is easier to find and cheaper, so I would go for that. Unless I am riding in above 85 weather, or riding early in the morning before I can get re-hydrated, I only use water. In the above conditions, one bottle of water and one bottle of gatorade/powerbar endurance.
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    Personally I drink a little every fifteen minutes. If you wait until you're thirsty it's too late. And I'll eat something - half a banana, a piece of flapjack, something like that - about every half an hour. Not too much, because as you say you can't absorb more than about 60 grams of carbohydrate per hour - maybe more if you're using a sports drink. If I'm after serious distance and want to be as quick as i can, I'll take some energy gels. Easy to carry in one's pockets and to consume on the bike, and a quick hit if you're starting to tire.

    As far as recovery goes, get some protein inside you within about half-an-hour of finishing your ride. A shot of whey protein, or a protein bar, is ideal.
    There have been many days when I haven't felt like riding, but there has never been a day when I was sorry I rode.

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    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    I'm not sure of what you are saying? The above article is from the TDF they get feedbags with sandwiches. Not sure hat you mean can't stop during a ride like the TDF, they do slow down, they do stop and they do eat.
    Okay, so the TdF was a bad example. There are riders who think the worst sin you can ever commit during a ride is to let the pedals stop turning, even for an instant, thought racing would be a good reason, I guess not. For those people the chemical supplements probably work okay. For the typical recreational clyde rider, a stop for a real, but small (bordering on tiny) meal is a better idea.

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    I have to say hardly do I ever eat during a ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nymtber View Post
    Try some Camelback Podium bottles...Mine have been used all of this year and NO taste whatsoever from the bottle. They are THE best bottle I have used, they seal great, and are simple. No valve to pull out with your teeth, just leave the valve "open" and squirt when needed.

    I agree on real food over expensive lab-produced supplements. Granola bars work awesome, for me. I can go to Save-A-Lot and buy a box of 10 granola bars for something like $2...110 calories each. I usually take one or two on a longer ride, and when I ride long rides on the canal, I either stop for food halfway, or stop at the end and load up quick. Powerbar Endurance is actually, IMO, superior to gatorade, and taste better, too. But, gatorade is easier to find and cheaper, so I would go for that. Unless I am riding in above 85 weather, or riding early in the morning before I can get re-hydrated, I only use water. In the above conditions, one bottle of water and one bottle of gatorade/powerbar endurance.
    The bottles I use are not bad, they are Polar bottles, and the plastic taste seems to go away fairly quickly. I usually take new bottles and stick them in a sunny window with the top off for a few days, and that lets them off-gas, follow that up with a good soap and water washing before use. Most of the plastic taste is because the bottles are made in a factory, the lids are put on, it's sealed inside more plastic and then shipped vast distances over a fairly long period of time. The bottle you buy today was probably made over a year ago. The volatile organic compounds (VOCs) in the plastic come out and infuse the air inside in very high concentrations, these compounds are readily absorbed into the water when you fill the bottle. Letting the plastic warm up and air out will get rid of the majority of these VOCs. By the same token, bottles not currently being used should be left with the lids off, so that any additional VOC's that come out of the plastic are not allowed to build up. I want to try stainless steel, but the price has been a little high so far. Still think they will need a good wash in soap and water before using though.

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