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Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) Looking to lose that spare tire? Ideal weight 200+? Frustrated being a large cyclist in a sport geared for the ultra-light? Learn about the bikes and parts that can take the abuse of a heavier cyclist, how to keep your body going while losing the weight, and get support from others who've been successful.

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Old 01-17-11, 03:48 PM   #1
djnzlab1
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Dieting May not Work?

HI,
I have been trying to understand this weight thing the fast 10 years, I used to be lighter when I was in the military , but now the weight seems to hang no matter how hard I train.
I think I have found the problem.
One of the Health Forums thats moderated by a Dr Mercola, talks about Human Metbolism and eating habits.
He believes that Humans are designed for breif periods of fasts due to environmental
problems as humans evolved over the Centuries.
One problem is we tend to eat a little to much food late in the day.
Our Big meal should be breakfast and Lunch and a Light supper.
And thats It no food or snack till 7 am the next day.
This allows time for normal biological function to occur.
We will actually release a hormone called leptin during the night to help remove any extra weight that may have occured if we snack this release insulin and may prevent the actual release of Leptin.
AS we gain extra weight we become more insulin resistant this can lead to higher blood sugars which can increase weight gain.
Once your really large its very hard to break the cycle of calorie storage.
I have been trying to stop eating at 5 pm and fast till 7 am after a few days its easy.
And I don't seem hungry after a week of effort.
Try to fast every night and you may see a gradual melting of stored weight after a few weeks.
Avoid all sugar free products when reducing weight they may trigger the same insulin levels that seen with sugar and may make you more hungrey than sugar.
Doug
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Old 01-17-11, 05:25 PM   #2
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I think a lot of these are "old wives tales"

If you look at the most recent studies of some others.
1) Kids get sugar highs (go crazy with sugar)
- LOTS of recent research shows this it not true, and it is the environment they are in
when they consume sugar (parties etc) that tends to give this impression.

2) Working out in the evening revs up the metabolism that you become a fat burning
machine all night. Research shows there is no real "after effect' of exercising. If you
gain muscle from exercise, the muscle will burn cals 24/7. And the belief for some time
has been muscle building is more effective than aerobics in loosing weight.

3) The eating after 7:00 myth.
Basically it is calories in calories out, regardless of what type/what time.
Recently that doctor lost 27 lbs on twinkies to prove this point.
Generally we eat too much and exercise to little. I do believe some people can
gain/maintain higher weights with less calories because of genetics, but basically
it is the cals in/cals out.

To your point of getting harder to loose as you get older, generally that is because you loose 10%
muscle mass/decade after 30 or so ( and become more sedentary), so you burn less as part of your metablolism. I am
getting back into weight training to accompany my 25-35 mile per days riding (12-16 miles -20C winter rides) because I think that will help.

Last edited by gbg; 01-17-11 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 01-17-11, 05:49 PM   #3
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I think the best thing to do is to carefully track all the calories that go in and out of you for a week, or, better, two. Sometimes patterns emerge from the data that tell a story of their own...
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Old 01-17-11, 06:52 PM   #4
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While I agree that Calorie In < Calorie out = weightloss. The real issue for the vast majority of us Clydes is Calorie In. So it becomes a matter of controlling hunger and portion size. I've been at weight-loss for 1 1/2 years and in that time I've never woken-up in the middle of the night and had uncontrolable hunger. I have gotton very hungry midday. So in the late evening don't eat just go to bed. Save those calories for tomorrow.
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Old 01-17-11, 07:29 PM   #5
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Is it time for me to chime in with "it's not a diet, it's a lifestyle change?" Or is it too soon? :-)
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Old 01-17-11, 07:57 PM   #6
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Is it time for me to chime in with "it's not a diet, it's a lifestyle change?" Or is it too soon? :-)
Too soon, I want to see where this goes.
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Old 01-17-11, 09:25 PM   #7
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Too many mights and coulds for me.
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Old 01-18-11, 08:45 AM   #8
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While I agree that Calorie In < Calorie out = weightloss. The real issue for the vast majority of us Clydes is Calorie In. So it becomes a matter of controlling hunger and portion size. I've been at weight-loss for 1 1/2 years and in that time I've never woken-up in the middle of the night and had uncontrolable hunger. I have gotton very hungry midday. So in the late evening don't eat just go to bed. Save those calories for tomorrow.
Portion size is KEY for me to maintain/lose/gain weight.

While riding in the summer, I can pretty much eat what I want, when I want, and how much I want. I am physically active enough to simply "burn it all off". When winter hits, I slow down a bit, and if I don't pay attention to my portions my weigh spikes in a matter of weeks. This year I was down to ~190 or so at the end of the season. I jumped to almost 220 within a month. Same eating habits, but my activity went down. I dropped back to ~215 by simply not eating so much. One bowl of cereal instead of two. Not getting the "large size" at the drive through. One slice of bread at dinner instead of two. Just quite simply eating less. My wife bought me a trainer (rollers) for Christmas, and I've been hitting them about 4 nights a week for two weeks now. I'm just starting to drop back to the 20x weight range now, and hopefully will be back at my 190's by the time spring hits in 2-3 months.

Eating smaller portions is the name of the game for me. Only took me 4 years of "yo-yo" in the winter-summer-winter transitions to figure it out!
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Old 01-18-11, 10:46 AM   #9
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2) Working out in the evening revs up the metabolism that you become a fat burning
machine all night. Research shows there is no real "after effect' of exercising. If you
gain muscle from exercise, the muscle will burn cals 24/7. And the belief for some time has been muscle building is more effective than aerobics in loosing weight.
Even this is an Old Wives Tale! Muscle does burn more calories than fat... but not by a huge amount. Estimates range from 6 calories/day per pound of muscle to 30 calories/day per pound. So, if you replace 10 pounds of fat with 10 pounds of muscle, you'll burn an extra 60 to 300 calories/day.

That's not bad, but you'll probably find it easier to ride for 30 minutes/day or pass up that extra cookie than it is to gain 10 pounds of lean muscle...
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Old 01-18-11, 12:35 PM   #10
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Look, it's calories in, calories out. And fasting is just a way of tricking the body. Let's say you have a 2,400 calorie limit a day. Some people can do fine on 5 480-calorie meals, while others can do fine on 3 800-calorie meals.

I fast in that I don't eat breakfast. I've never been real hungry in the morning, so I take advantage of it by not eating until later in the day. Since I work an evening job, that means more calories to spread out over the rest of the day, so that works for me. There is no magical advantage in fasting, fasting doesn't have a magical effect on top of calories in vs. calories out.
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Old 01-18-11, 01:10 PM   #11
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I predict a well thought out diet and nutrition thread that won't dissolve into the usually p*ssing contest.


-with extra butter! I brought plenty to share.
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Old 01-18-11, 01:11 PM   #12
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Too soon, I want to see where this goes.

But, but....

I need to hear someone say it so that I'll eventually believe it.

As it is, I'm still frustrated with holiday weight gain issues. Dam cookies! Those sneaky things are just loaded with hidden extras like calories. And just TRY to eat only one or two.

Oh well, back to work.
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Old 01-18-11, 01:20 PM   #13
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Eat less, move more. Its simple, but its difficult.
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Old 01-18-11, 01:44 PM   #14
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The human body is more complex than simple calories in and calories out. Different sources of calories get used for different body processes. Your metabolism slows down later in the day and people become more sedentary.
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Old 01-18-11, 01:52 PM   #15
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The human body is more complex than simple calories in and calories out. Different sources of calories get used for different body processes. Your metabolism slows down later in the day and people become more sedentary.
Most defiantly. I was put on a no carb diet, with all my caloric intake coming from 80% protein and 20% fat. I lost 35 pounds very fast. Then one morning I was found laying unconscious in a parking garage at work. The explanation for what happened was complex, and was complicated by my two doctors not communicating properly about my insulin, and I have forgotten much of it over the years.

Just backing up exile's point.
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Old 01-18-11, 02:00 PM   #16
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Metabolism is definitely a big factor as well, but moving more helps that. I've found that most people looking for a trick or a way to still eat more or exercise less will only see temporary results (myself included). Oh wait, here we go on that lifestyle thing again...
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Old 01-18-11, 02:27 PM   #17
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The human body is more complex than simple calories in and calories out. Different sources of calories get used for different body processes. Your metabolism slows down later in the day and people become more sedentary.
Human body? more complex than calories in, calories out
Weight loss? calories in, calories out
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Old 01-18-11, 03:56 PM   #18
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Human body? more complex than calories in, calories out
Weight loss? calories in, calories out
Simply speaking you lose weight when you lower your basic caloric needs over time.

The problem arises when your body adapts to compensate for the lack of calories or changes in activity level. Hence the complexity.

Although we are all very similar, we are just a little different in how we process calories. If we all followed someones diet plan and activity level to the exact letter many still wouldn't produce the same results. Probably similar, but not exact results.
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Old 01-18-11, 04:28 PM   #19
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Human body? more complex than calories in, calories out
Weight loss? calories in, calories out
You are correct sir!
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Old 01-28-11, 07:21 PM   #20
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HI,
Well here's the Forum that Started me thinking.

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/i...better-health/

just a concept to consider.
Doug
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Old 01-28-11, 08:25 PM   #21
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-with extra butter! I brought plenty to share.
Movie popcorn has fat of 12 hamburgers

http://www.healthzone.ca/health/diet...amburgers?bn=1
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Old 01-31-11, 09:22 AM   #22
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Movie popcorn has fat of 12 hamburgers

http://www.healthzone.ca/health/diet...amburgers?bn=1
Let's make it the fat of 24 hamburgers and put some cheese and bacon on it.
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Old 02-01-11, 01:34 AM   #23
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Let's make it the fat of 24 hamburgers and put some cheese and bacon on it.
Certainly Sir.

That will be $1.00 extra

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Old 02-01-11, 06:30 AM   #24
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I think a lot of these are "old wives tales"
3) The eating after 7:00 myth.
Basically it is calories in calories out, regardless of what type/what time.
Recently that doctor lost 27 lbs on twinkies to prove this point.
Generally we eat too much and exercise to little. I do believe some people can
gain/maintain higher weights with less calories because of genetics, but basically
it is the cals in/cals out.

I've got to disagree with this one. There's some data showing that your body processes the "calories in" in a different way depending on what time of the day it is. For example, consider the diabetic drug "Cycloset". It doesn't act on insulin, or on muscle tissue, or on how sugar gets absorbed in the gut. Instead, it works on the dopamine system in the brain. In other species, dopamine seems to be part of the signaling system used within the brain to control hibernation. A dose of Cycloset early in the morning seems to tell the body "hey! wake up! It's spring! No more lolligagging, time to get rid of that winter fat!"

I mention it here because using Cycloset in the morning helps diabetes - but using it at other times of the day doesn't. There are time-of-day variations in metabolism that effect diabetes, blood sugar, and (it seems) obesity.


(BTW, "Cycloset" is a new name for an old drug, bromocriptine, that has been used for Parkinson's disease for decades. The marketers gave it a new brand name when they began promoting it for diabetes.)
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Old 02-01-11, 06:39 AM   #25
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The human body is more complex than simple calories in and calories out. Different sources of calories get used for different body processes. Your metabolism slows down later in the day and people become more sedentary.
A calorie is simply a unit of energy.

It really is as "simple" as eating less calories than you burn. I quoted simple because it's actually rather complex to accurately calculate how many calories you burn through the day. But if you use any reputable calculator and subtract 500 calories from that you will almost certainly burn more than you consume.

Or if you actually keep track of everything you eat daily for 2 weeks, get a daily average, and subtract 500 from that - you will lose weight.

http://caloriecount.about.com - the trick is putting the actual effort into using it daily. If you can't maintain a log for 2 weeks, chances are you can't eat right for 2 weeks.
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