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A few questions about what should fuel a Clydesdale in training...

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A few questions about what should fuel a Clydesdale in training...

Old 04-01-11, 03:16 AM
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A few questions about what should fuel a Clydesdale in training...

Good day, everyone! I wanted to get your opinions on what foods are appropriate for a Clydesdale who just had his first day out riding. In grand and careless fashion, I ended up with zero energy and dizziness due to that fact that no food was consumed before hand. A light ride turned quickly brutal as my energy plummeted. I was too excited to begin and was careless. The morning could have ended badly. Thankfully, my riding partner was there to see me safely back.

I attributed this to low sugar. Considering I am a Clydesdale who is not so aerodynamic around the midsection, just amping up on sugar heavy products does not seem wise. Eating the carb gear that athletes chew on does not seem appropriate either. I don't mind snatching a HyperPro ExtremeX Flavor Nugget from my man-pouch and sink my teeth into it if that is in fact what is required. My nutritional knowledge is good, but only in the realm of weight-loss, not for maintaining the necessary energy to sustain activity of this nature. My cycling friend tells me I need to up my sugars and get the spike... AND then ride. BUT everything I have been told shows that sugar... simple sugar... is no good for me. There is a lot to go over, I am sure. I will just leave it at that. What do you all recommend for a heavy Clyde before a ride?

I did not jump into this first day of riding without some prep. I managed to lose 65 lbs. and rebuild some of my endurance through basic activity (ie walking, walking faster, and just a bit more walking). My friend, a century rider himself, encouraged me and kept the notion fresh that one day I could be doing that very thing.

The pains will be plenty, but my tummy takes priority on my Clydesdale To-Do list... for now.

Thank you again for your time and answers.
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Old 04-01-11, 03:49 AM
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First of all congrats on the weight-loss. If riding is alot more intense than the walking you're doing. Then it will take some training to buildup the anerobic channels to product the needed energy. I too have to eat something before workouts and I won't eat sugar. After the initial general fitness improvement , losing weight and increasing power is a delicate balence that I'm constantly struggling with. My only comfort is that I'm within 5 pounds of my target. Over the last 20 months I've become good at the weight-loss but I'm only a little stronger than I was last Fall when I weighed 270. I wish I had a "magic" food for you. Others will suggest stuff but I think it's a matter of Priority. The one thing I do know is eat at least 1800 calories a day. I went below that at times and lost weight but in the long run it's not sustainable. Good habits are what you need to form. The weight-loss will come in time.

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Old 04-01-11, 03:54 AM
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How long did you ride for? How far did you get?
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Old 04-01-11, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Dropp
Good day, everyone! I wanted to get your opinions on what foods are appropriate for a Clydesdale who just had his first day out riding. In grand and careless fashion, I ended up with zero energy and dizziness due to that fact that no food was consumed before hand. A light ride turned quickly brutal as my energy plummeted. I was too excited to begin and was careless. The morning could have ended badly. Thankfully, my riding partner was there to see me safely back.

I attributed this to low sugar. Considering I am a Clydesdale who is not so aerodynamic around the midsection, just amping up on sugar heavy products does not seem wise. Eating the carb gear that athletes chew on does not seem appropriate either. I don't mind snatching a HyperPro ExtremeX Flavor Nugget from my man-pouch and sink my teeth into it if that is in fact what is required. My nutritional knowledge is good, but only in the realm of weight-loss, not for maintaining the necessary energy to sustain activity of this nature. My cycling friend tells me I need to up my sugars and get the spike... AND then ride. BUT everything I have been told shows that sugar... simple sugar... is no good for me. There is a lot to go over, I am sure. I will just leave it at that. What do you all recommend for a heavy Clyde before a ride?

I did not jump into this first day of riding without some prep. I managed to lose 65 lbs. and rebuild some of my endurance through basic activity (ie walking, walking faster, and just a bit more walking). My friend, a century rider himself, encouraged me and kept the notion fresh that one day I could be doing that very thing.

The pains will be plenty, but my tummy takes priority on my Clydesdale To-Do list... for now.

Thank you again for your time and answers.
This is probably elsewhere, and the info has been around for a donkeys age, this is the simple version, you could take 25 pages to explain it using lots of scientific and medical terms, but requires a doctorate of science (biology) to understand. There are really 2 fuels for the human body, glucose, there are tiny amounts in various tissues and the blood, it burns like dry paper though, and you can use up what you have very quickly, there is a reserve tank in the liver where long chains of it are stored and called glycogen, and when your sugar gets low, the liver splits some off and sends it into the blood, when there is too much the liver puts these chains together using the hormone insulin. The other fuel is fat, it burns very slowly and needs a small amount of glucose to burn at all. When the liver's tank of glycogen runs out, you get what is called The Bonk, runners call it The Wall. The key in all this is balance, you want to eat enough that your glucose stores are kept up enough to continue functioning, but not enough to end up storing it as fat. A half a cup of nuts and dried fruit once in a while is probably sufficient.

Now there is another point in all this, hydration, you need to make sure, while riding that you drink at least 1L of WATER per hour. Most bike bottles are 750ml, so a bottle and a third in cool weather (temps below 20℃/68℉), the warmer it is, the more you drink. You should be pretty much double that at 30℃/84℉, often dehydration will offer similar symptoms to running out of glycogen.
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Old 04-01-11, 06:44 AM
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What The Wogster is talking about is dead on. You don't want to get your blood sugar way up, because after that comes the WAY down. I rode my first century when I was still close to 300 lbs. I took along two peanut butter sandwiches on whole wheat that I cut into halves, some lightly salted peanuts, a Clif Bar or two and a l LOT of water. Every hour or so I would take in a half a sandwich and some water, or a handful of nuts and some water, etc. This kept my blood sugar and energy levels right where they needed to be so that I could do what I needed to do on the bike. For what it's worth, my rides are ALWAYS better when my nutrition is on point.
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Old 04-01-11, 06:55 AM
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Fruits, nuts, granola bars, cereal bars, etc...

Just about any portable food source is good as long as you can digest it while riding and it has a decent quantity of carbohydrates. Sugar in and of itself is not bad, as long as it is consumed in moderation. Fresh fruit, I like apples and bananas on the bike.

Like wog said water is important. You need to consume enough during the ride that you don't feel thirsty. A drink every five to ten minutes seems to work for me, but your mileage will vary...
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Old 04-01-11, 07:06 AM
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what time of day are you riding? quite frankly, I don't try to do anythign special fuel wise, after all, we are trying tolose weight right? I just make sure I"ve taken in my usual food. For example, a normal breakfast for me is often steel cut oatmeal with a little brown sugar for flavor and some nuts and half a banana thrown in. I could eat that and 10 minutes later jump on my bike and be good. If I know i'm just going out for an hour on the bike, thats all I would need and I would eat the rest of my meals like normal (maybe have something small when i finished the ride for recovery purposes, but i'd keep it around 100-150 calories) If I know I'm going out for a 3 hour "training ride" then I would eat my normal breakfast and then focus on taking in 100-300 calories per hour on the bike depending on how hard i'm riding that day. IF it's just a recovery ride and i'm keeping my heart rate low and just getting some time in on the bike, I'm gonna be closer to 100 calories. If i'm doing an aggressive 3 hours or lots of climbing, I'm gonna be closer to 300 calories.

LAstly, I ask what time of day because obv, if your riding in the afternoon and "breakfast food" doesn't appeal to you, the same thing would apply, have your regular meal then go ride. The only limiting factor is how much time you need for your tummy to feel comfortable. I can eat and 5 minutes later go exercise, some people need to let their food settle more.
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Old 04-01-11, 07:15 AM
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Since most of my rides are usually less than 30 miles, I rarely eat while on them. I'll just make sure to not go out on a completely empty stomach, and have whatever my normal meal is at the normal time of day prior to the ride. Once my rides get longer than that, I start thinking about packing something portable to take with me. I always have water, though.

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Old 04-01-11, 01:06 PM
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What you eat before a ride kind of depends.

I know that I don't do well with greasy, heavy foods before a ride. I usually have a cup of coffee, a cup of milk, 2 hard boiled eggs, and a packet of instant oatmeal.

Since my commutes are relatively short (within 5 miles or so), I don't need to eat anything else for a little while. I don't think i have ever eaten on a ride, but I will bring along 2 PB&J sandwiches, an apple, and 2 hard boiled eggs for when I get hungry.
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Old 04-01-11, 01:17 PM
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For me it's all about maintaining. To do that requires practice and a willingness to try new things, and to experiment to find what works for you.

For the sake of both performance and weight loss, I NEED to eat while riding. Not much, but some. 3 or 4 fig newtons per hour is a good fuel for me, personally. Eat before you get hungry, drink before you get thirsty.

Eating a bit while riding helps performance by keeping glycogen up so you can ride harder for longer, and for me, it's extremely important for weight loss, because if I don't eat while riding, I find myself starving afterwords and I then overeat. Long, slow distance while munching slowly the entire way has been one of my keys for weight loss, it keeps the hunger away after rides so I'm not tempted to eat too much and cancel out all the hard work I did on the bike.

It doesn't take much, and experiment to find something that is easy for your body to digest quickly. It doesn't do you any good if the food is just sitting in your stomach waiting to be digested.
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Old 04-01-11, 01:47 PM
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Anything less than about a 2 hour ride, you probably don't need to eat anything special beforehand or during the ride. Unless you're currently running an extreme low-carb diet.

Anything over 2 hours, and you need to think about how you're going to make your body's glycogen stores last longer. This is almost always in the form of eating some carbs along the way. If you want to keep your activity level much lower, you can keep your body in a more fat-burning activity level, which will keep you going longer - at a much slower pace.
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Old 04-01-11, 01:49 PM
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The responses are very helpful and VERY appreciated.

Is it necessary for me to "carb up" prior to a ride or should I just stick to a simple meal? (I think got answered immediately above... right after I posted this. You guys/gals are awesome! Keep posting though if you have further suggestions.)

Anxious for the weather to get a bit better so I can go out again.
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Old 04-01-11, 01:49 PM
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To the OP - if you've lost a bunch of weight and been getting back in shape by walking, my guess is that your body still needs to get used to a more aerobic ( heart intense ) workout. That will probably come quickly.

Originally Posted by myrridin
Just about any portable food source is good as long as you can digest it while riding and it has a decent quantity of carbohydrates. Sugar in and of itself is not bad, as long as it is consumed in moderation. Fresh fruit, I like apples and bananas on the bike.
+1. Granny smith apples are one of my favorite snacks in the middle of a long ride. Bananas are good, too; it helps your legs that they have potassium in them, and they're a fairly low-cal way to get it.
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Old 04-01-11, 01:55 PM
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A little OT, but you also might want to consider using a heart rate monitor. This lets you know how hard you are working. Sometimes what you think is a "light ride" has you working much harder than you think, which in turn may lead to bonking faster.
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Old 04-01-11, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by exile
What you eat before a ride kind of depends.

I know that I don't do well with greasy, heavy foods before a ride. I usually have a cup of coffee, a cup of milk, 2 hard boiled eggs, and a packet of instant oatmeal.
To prove it's somewhat a personal determination, I'm the total opposite when it comes to long rides. My PR 100k and 200k times have been set when I had a sausage McMuffin and hash brown for breakfast. My PR 300k time was set with the same breakfast, plus a Pepsi and 2 corn-dogs from a gas station for lunch. I also had a bahn-mi with some kinda hot peppers on it.
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Old 04-01-11, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CliftonGK1
To prove it's somewhat a personal determination, I'm the total opposite when it comes to long rides. My PR 100k and 200k times have been set when I had a sausage McMuffin and hash brown for breakfast. My PR 300k time was set with the same breakfast, plus a Pepsi and 2 corn-dogs from a gas station for lunch. I also had a bahn-mi with some kinda hot peppers on it.
So that's the secret recipe. I thought you were just "juicing" .

Okay, anybody who outpaces me must be "on the stuff", at least that's my rationale .
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Old 04-01-11, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by CliftonGK1
To prove it's somewhat a personal determination, I'm the total opposite when it comes to long rides. My PR 100k and 200k times have been set when I had a sausage McMuffin and hash brown for breakfast. My PR 300k time was set with the same breakfast, plus a Pepsi and 2 corn-dogs from a gas station for lunch. I also had a bahn-mi with some kinda hot peppers on it.
The UTI and the ICU banned Corn Dogs stating that it gave the leaders an unfair advantage. The pack had to drop back or risk "gassing" out.

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Old 04-01-11, 05:03 PM
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I asked how far you're going, because I believe that nutrition doesn't matter until you get into longer durations (probably 90 mins to 2 hours or longer). Sometimes new riders who are out of shape or not used to riding think that it's because of not eating enough, when in reality they're just not used to riding.

You don't burn that many calories riding (40 to 50 cal per mile is a good estimate). Don't eat extra before rides or you'll eat more then you're burning riding.
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Old 04-01-11, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by exile
So that's the secret recipe. I thought you were just "juicing" .
Sorry to disappoint. The only juice I'm on is grapefruit.
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Old 04-01-11, 06:57 PM
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you should be able to go 2 hours at pretty hard intensity without needing anything other than your normal breakfast. no need to carb up, however, if it was a really intense 2 hours you want to make sure you have something for recovery purposes right after the ride. IF your inclined to have something on the sugary side, this is when it should be, immediately post ride as your body will actually put it to use and not store it. After a hard ride 2+ hours I go with simple protein powder mixed with whole milk and I actually add some additional sugar to it to up the carb amount since the protein powder I use has next to no carbs in it.
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Old 04-02-11, 09:08 AM
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I'm also very focused on this feeding-the-weight-loss task, plus in a previous lifetime I used to actually race these things, at a Cat. 2 level. But alas, twas many, many moon-pies ago. Here's what I've learned:

First, I have no quibble with anything here already posted. I will have something like a bowl of oatmeal and/or a couple hard-boiled eggs and some V8 Fusion juice an hour or two before the ride starts. If I'm riding upward to two hours or more, during the ride at maybe the one or one and a half hour mark I like a Clif Builder bar (the other ones are too hard to eat while riding) but PB&J on a dense whole wheat, multigrain bread is pretty satisfying too. Read your food labels!!! Especially take a look at the ingredients in your peanut butter. Whoever got the idea to put HFCS or sugar in it should be slathered with it and staked to an ant hill. Get the real deal.

Pre-hydrate! (Is that a word?). I'll drink at least a half a water bottle (more, if I'm comfortable with it) before I push off. Once you start to feel thirsty, it's probably too late.

The only other addition I have that I didn't see mentioned is what you do post ride (or any workout). Very important because your body is now in recovery and still burning calories at a higher rate and will continue to do so for an hour or so after you finish, and you want to make sure you're giving it quality calories to replace. Carbs, and especially simple sugars, aren't that. Protein will make your body work for the recovery by being more intensive for it to digest. Sugars and carbs go right to the spot and, carbs anyway, are preferred when actually exercising.

I've been taking a protein supplement called Platinum Hydro Whey from Optimum Nutrition based on my superior Googling skills. It's what many body builders recommend and that's my only connection to them. I'm absolutely convinced of its ability to lessen next-day muscle soreness. I recently rode 47 miles with ~3000' of climbing, and I haven't ridden more than 30 miles at a time in more than 20 years. The next day I only suffered a little soreness in my lower back and did a hilly 18 miler with little discomfort. Read what WebMD has to say about protein supplements here:

https://www.webmd.com/diet/protein-shakes

Lastly, do not, do not, do not use your appetite as a measure for how much you should eat! Use reason instead. I figure an hour of 13 to 16 mph average riding will burn 400-500 calories. Don't take it all back in afterward because you feel like 'I deserve it' or 'I'm starving' so 'how about some of that lasagna!'. Cut a melon in half, scoop out the seeds and fill it with some plain low-fat yogurt. You're welcome!

C.
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Old 04-02-11, 10:15 AM
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As others have stated. < 2hours I don't do anything but get on & ride. I have a bottle of water.

> 2 hours I don't eat heavy prior to but I do drink a quart of water before going. I'll take PBJ & fruit but I have a Carradice Tail pack which can fit fruit easily.
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Old 04-02-11, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CliftonGK1
To prove it's somewhat a personal determination, I'm the total opposite when it comes to long rides. My PR 100k and 200k times have been set when I had a sausage McMuffin and hash brown for breakfast. My PR 300k time was set with the same breakfast, plus a Pepsi and 2 corn-dogs from a gas station for lunch. I also had a bahn-mi with some kinda hot peppers on it.
Wow. You must have "intestines of steel", I wouldn't be able to eat that and "sit", much less eat that and move. Good point about "personal determination", as I think we vary greatly in the rate at which carbs, fats and protein are metabolized, even though the process is the same. Me, I'm definitely in the fruits and nuts category - guess that makes me a "gatherer" - although frankly, I haven't cycled long enough lately to have to bring anything with me.... except the H20 of course.
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Old 04-02-11, 07:04 PM
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You just have to figure out what works for you. If you bonk when you don't eat anything, try eating something. Bananas are good, easy to peel and eat while in the saddle. I find that energy bars are hard to peel and eat, so I avoid them. I also find 'shots' to be messy. I like the little chewy bits -- Clif Blocks, Sport Beans -- for a quick shot o' carbs when my energy starts to get low.
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Old 04-04-11, 12:45 AM
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UPDATE and Thank you!

Today was the day. I recovered from my previous ride which consisted of an expected light ride of about 2-3 miles. I am an overweight beginner... so lots of new challenges including how to re-tune myself to balancing on two wheels. That ride did not last long as I was too eager to ride and not eager enough to eat. A solid bonk occurred in a very short time, but I did complete the ride. Huge accomplishment in my books.

Now... having read the posts here and following through on the advice given I changed my preparation just a bit. First, I ate a fair breakfast. Eggs, muffin... and vegetables. My lady refused to let me leave without some green. I gave myself some time to digest (2 hours) before the ride. I then ate 2 bananas and some nuts right about 15 min before the ride. Ride started well... good energy. Good breathing. No sun, but can't have everything.

My riding buddy stopped me at Bonk Point Alpha checking to make sure I was alright. I confirmed that I was and we continued. At the start of the second mile, again we stopped and took a moment to reexamine my level of exhaustion. I was doing good. Breathing, heart, energy... all was well.

This kept going at mile three... and four... and six... and seven... and then at mile eight... we pushed right on to nine... and ten... and eleven! Then twelve! Twelve miles! Breathing, energy, heart... were great. Legs were shot... but other than that... great.

Thank you all for the advice and the patience for answering my questions but for reading this drama post. Big hugs all around. Time for a hot bath and sympathy from a cute lady.

*silly grin*
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