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  1. #1
    Senior Member Jtgyk's Avatar
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    Flying Clydes and Athenas

    In another thread, the subject of flying came up.

    How many of you out there willingly purchase 2 tickets for yourself when flying, or, if not willingly, are forced to buy 2 seats?

    How Do you feel about it?

    Here is what I wrote in a the other thread:

    "After flying as much as I have the last two years, I no longer have any issues with buying two seats (I have to on any airline).
    The only drawback has been price. However, you get to bring twice the carry-on luggage (panniers fit nicely into overhead compartments) and have LOTS more room.
    When I see regular sized people jammed together, having to fight for personal space...I have less issues with the price of two seats.
    I have had instances of airlines thinking I'd made a mistake in reservations and issuing me only one seat (all handled with sensitivity and tact).
    The funniest was when a flight was canceled and I was sent to another airline where I was, indeed, issued two seats.........each in different rows!"
    Hey, I'm just this GUY...you know?
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  2. #2
    Downtown Spanky Brown bautieri's Avatar
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    I don't think airlines have a concept of personal space. I fly for work a few times a year (forced to use Delta, ugh) but so far haven't had any real issue. I think the "problem" with larger fliers over flowing into your seat is a bit overblown. In all my travels, I've never experienced this. To be honest, I would rather deal with that than the people who fall asleep on your shoulder. I've had that happen twice now.

    I'm a smaller clyde at 215, 34'' waist but board shouldered, even I have trouble fitting into a coach seat in relative comfort.

  3. #3
    Senior Member bassjones's Avatar
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    I refuse to fly. I drive if I have to go anywhere.

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    Senior Member Jtgyk's Avatar
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    Most of my weight is in my butt and hips so I guess I'm not your typical fat male with no ass and a big gut.
    I avoid chairs with armrests in any setting (and have been known to walk out of restaurants where that is the only option).
    Even If I could wedge myself into one of the airline seats, I would be physically and emotionally uncomfortable.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Jtgyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassjones View Post
    I refuse to fly. I drive if I have to go anywhere.
    I DO recall one flight to Colorado that had so many delays and cancellations that , by the time you factor time spent driving to the airport and getting there 2 hour before the flight, I could have actually driven myslf to Denver (and felt less physically drained) in the same amount of time.
    Hey, I'm just this GUY...you know?
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtgyk View Post
    In another thread, the subject of flying came up.

    How many of you out there willingly purchase 2 tickets for yourself when flying, or, if not willingly, are forced to buy 2 seats?

    How Do you feel about it?

    Here is what I wrote in a the other thread:

    "After flying as much as I have the last two years, I no longer have any issues with buying two seats (I have to on any airline).
    The only drawback has been price. However, you get to bring twice the carry-on luggage (panniers fit nicely into overhead compartments) and have LOTS more room.
    When I see regular sized people jammed together, having to fight for personal space...I have less issues with the price of two seats.
    I have had instances of airlines thinking I'd made a mistake in reservations and issuing me only one seat (all handled with sensitivity and tact).
    The funniest was when a flight was canceled and I was sent to another airline where I was, indeed, issued two seats.........each in different rows!"
    I, fortunately have never gotten to the size where I would need 2 seats, it's an issue when flying or taking buses (all buses seem to be designed for people who are 55kg or less), it's almost funny on city buses when you see 2 people on a seat designed for 3.... The last time I flew anywhere was about 20 years ago, and that wasn't an issue. If you want nice wide seats that are nice and soft, take to the rails, trains often have wider seats and wider aisles. So a passenger who would require 2 seats on an aircraft, only requires one by rail.

  7. #7
    Downtown Spanky Brown bautieri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca View Post
    I, fortunately have never gotten to the size where I would need 2 seats, it's an issue when flying or taking buses (all buses seem to be designed for people who are 55kg or less), it's almost funny on city buses when you see 2 people on a seat designed for 3.... The last time I flew anywhere was about 20 years ago, and that wasn't an issue. If you want nice wide seats that are nice and soft, take to the rails, trains often have wider seats and wider aisles. So a passenger who would require 2 seats on an aircraft, only requires one by rail.
    If the trains went anywhere useful, I would ride them more often.

    I have traveled by rail once (Amtrak) and it was by all means, quite enjoyable. You practically sat in a lazy boy and had all the elbow room you needed! Really makes me wish the passenger rail network in the US was better.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Jtgyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
    If the trains went anywhere useful, I would ride them more often.
    +1000

    I still think that it's insane that I'd have to take the train to Chicago as part of going from Dallas to Denver.
    Hey, I'm just this GUY...you know?
    >>>Team Critical Mess<<< (You mean it's not SUPPOSE to hurt?)

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  9. #9
    Senior Member prompterbob's Avatar
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    I love the concept of air travel, but hate to fly because of the space issue. Until my recent 70+ weight loss, I've been 350+ all my adult life. It was always embarrassing flying - especially asking the flight attendant for the dreaded seat belt extender. And I could never put the tray table down because of my belly. But on some flights, the airline workers were very understanding and put me next to an open seat or the flight attendant discreetly brought me an extender without my asking. A few times I was flying on small prop planes going between NY and Washington or Boston and when the captain announced for volunteers to take another flight to lighten the load everyone turned and looked at me. Talk about humiliating. Screw them. I didn't leave the plane. So to answer you question, I would rather pay for two seats and avoid embarrassment.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
    If the trains went anywhere useful, I would ride them more often.

    I have traveled by rail once (Amtrak) and it was by all means, quite enjoyable. You practically sat in a lazy boy and had all the elbow room you needed! Really makes me wish the passenger rail network in the US was better.
    That is something to discuss with your federal representative, it's also something that is going to become more and more of an issue.... Think about it this way, oil is now over $100/barrel, jet aircraft get horrible fuel efficiency, on the order of 5 gallons per mile. How much flying do you think you could do with $200/barrel oil?

  11. #11
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    I'm 6'6" and 225 so not wide but I need legroom, I don't fly much but my mother who used to gave me a great tip and told me to go to the counter and ask for exit row seating as it has twice the legroom and as long as you're capable of opening an emergency door they'll usually move you.

    Worked both ways flying in and out of Detroit
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  12. #12
    eay
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    Senior Member eay's Avatar
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    I have my own personal built in saddlebags. They are smaller than they used to be, but they are still there.
    I've had them squashed under my neighbors' armrest for an entire flight. But more often than not, the person next to me is perfectly willing to leave the armrest up for the duration of the flight. A window seat give me a little bit of extra personal space and only one squashed saddlebag.

    My sweetie, who wont' take anything but an aisle seat, is 6ft 4in with wide (well padded) shoulders and he does not fit in airline seats comfortably. He gets his shoulder whacked with the drink cart if he is not paying attention.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Jtgyk's Avatar
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    Hmm...
    Guess I'm the only uber-clyde (350 - 375 depending on what end of the yo-yo I'm on) that doesn't mind paying for the extra stretch out room.
    -edit-(oops....sorry I missed your post Prompterbob)
    I'm usually on the 2 seat side so I can really stretch out or even put my feet up.
    I usually get my extender belt from the attendant as I board...so that's fairly discreet.
    Hey, I'm just this GUY...you know?
    >>>Team Critical Mess<<< (You mean it's not SUPPOSE to hurt?)

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  14. #14
    Neil_B
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    I'm the guy in the other thread. I'm planning, God willing, to spend the first week of May in Texas. I refuse to fly Southwest since they require "people of size" to buy two seats.

    I was 400 pounds and I flew between Cleveland and Philadelphia via Reagan National in DC with no problem. I did need a seatbelt extender. But I didn't have to purchase a second seat.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Jtgyk's Avatar
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    I just figured most airlines required the 2nd seat by now. Many require that you be able to fit into the seat with both armrests down.

    This sight has some fairly up-to-date info and links to referenced airlines:
    http://rickseaney.com/2010/02/15/air...ies-dont-work/
    Hey, I'm just this GUY...you know?
    >>>Team Critical Mess<<< (You mean it's not SUPPOSE to hurt?)

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  16. #16
    Neil_B
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    Interesting. When the Ken Smith incident took place, most reporting stressed that Southwest was the only carrier to have a policy about fat passengers having to buy a second seat.

    I flew US Airways and Continental in 2004 and 2005 as a 400 pound guy, and didn't have any problems on the planes. My problems were with the screeners, who always pulled me out for a special search. I admit one return trip from Cleveland looked a bit suspicious - I'd spent a week on the lake during a spring warm spell, but left during a late season snowfall, and my not having a jacket in 30 degree weather raised some eyebrows.

    BTW, here's me at 400 pounds, on the left of Grandmaster Larry Evans (R. I. P.), about the size I was when I flew.


  17. #17
    Senior Member Jtgyk's Avatar
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    This is why I buy two seats. (not for the squeamish)

    wide%20ride%20cropped.jpg

    In all its horrible glory...my ass... that doesn't fit anything. (Grrr)
    Hey, I'm just this GUY...you know?
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  18. #18
    Downtown Spanky Brown bautieri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogsterca View Post
    That is something to discuss with your federal representative, it's also something that is going to become more and more of an issue.... Think about it this way, oil is now over $100/barrel, jet aircraft get horrible fuel efficiency, on the order of 5 gallons per mile. How much flying do you think you could do with $200/barrel oil?
    5 gallons per mile to move how many people and cargo? It's actually quite efficient if you look at it on a large scale, more so if you figure how much fuel would be used if every passenger drove.

    The idea of expanding our rail network gets tossed around quite a bit and for one reason or another, it gets shot down. It's not just a matter of saying "hey guys, lets build train tracks here". They have to get funding, land rights (either willingly or through eminent domain), and/or work some deal with the freight network to share rails that they outright own. Good luck with the last one. Many law suits will be involved from all angles. Just like asking why we can't have more nuclear reactors built. I already live within 5 miles (as the crow flies) from one and it's a non issue. The other problem with rail travel in the US that I've encountered is that it isn't cheaper to ride the rails. I've only rode once, but the 60 mile trip I took cost about 13 dollars, at the time my car was getting 35mpg and gas was $2.50ish. Using fuzzy math, it was almost three times as expensive to ride the rails (not counting what I had to pay for parking at the terminal) and it took just as long with all the stops. Maybe the prices have changed since then and it would be more viable if one drove a less efficient vehicle. Ridership will increase when it becomes cheaper by a wide margin to ride the train.

    How much flying will I do at 200/barrel? Non, I'll leave the flying to the pilot . But I will be riding the exact same amount that I do at current prices. I'm also going to drive my truck that gets 10mpg (city) on a good day. Why? Because I like it and have the means to pay for it. I happen to think the price of gas in the US is cheap and it's a terrific deal! I look at it like this: On a day when it's 10 degrees or so and windy, go outside and walk 10-15 miles then ask yourself if $3.50 is worth it to ride in a nice climate controlled cab and get to your destination in a timely fashion. I don't complain about the price of gas.

  19. #19
    VoodooChile zoste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassjones View Post
    I refuse to fly. I drive if I have to go anywhere.
    I live in Tucson, but most of my family (including my pregnant daughter) still live in the Philadelphia area. It would take four or five hard days to drive back east for a visit.

    Quote Originally Posted by bautieri View Post
    If the trains went anywhere useful, I would ride them more often.

    I have traveled by rail once (Amtrak) and it was by all means, quite enjoyable. You practically sat in a lazy boy and had all the elbow room you needed! Really makes me wish the passenger rail network in the US was better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtgyk View Post
    +1000

    I still think that it's insane that I'd have to take the train to Chicago as part of going from Dallas to Denver.
    But it's not insane to FLY from Dallas to Denver via Chicago. I'm flying to Philly tomorrow and my trip is routed from TUS to LAX to PHL...very zen-like: in order to go east, first one must fly west.

    One of the problems with train travel is the same as driving: the trip from Tucson (via either Chicago or New Orleans) takes 75 hours. No matter how comfortable the train seat, I wouldn't want to spend three days in it. By flying, I have breakfast in Tucson, dinner in Philadelphia.
    Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

  20. #20
    Senior Member Aahzz's Avatar
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    I can still cram myself into a single seat with the armrests down, but it's mighty uncomfortable. I do have to ask for the belt extender, which is always embarassing - especially since they couldn't find one easily last time I flew.

  21. #21
    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    At 6'3 or so and 230 (+/-10 or so) my main problem is my knees and shoulders and getting them to fit more than my butt/hips. I usually do ok in the aisle seat by having my shoulder/one knee out there and then just squeeze it all in when the cart comes by. Not fun and a cross country flight leaves me in pain for a day or so, but sometimes it's what I have to do. I do love the train, but not the time it takes to get from point A to B. If I have to go home to visit the family by myself in an emergency (family health issues make a funeral visit home possible for a number of relatives), it's something I'll probably consider though as it's hard to beat $80 round trip for a 900 mile each way train trip even if it is 20 hours versus 14 hours straight driving (when I'd have to rent a car first as I don't own one) or $3-400 for a plane ticket to the nearest major airport that's still 4 hours from my family's house. Now if my wife and 1 month old daughter are going to go with me, we'll do something else, but if it's just me, that train is looking likely.

  22. #22
    Never Enough Bikes
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    Hi, folks! I'm a long-time lurker who has decided to join the conversation. At the top of my weight range I had the same problems several of you have mentioned: tray table won't fit, needed the extender, had to choose carefully where I sat. But, my work called upon me to fly a lot. In fact, I'm a million-mile flyer on United.

    The improved comfort of flying at a lower weight has been a huge motivator for me. I flew last weekend (to go bicycling!), and I actually measured FOUR INCHES of slack on the seatbelt! And, the tray table came down on the armrest with a satisfying plop. That felt so good!

    To answer your question, I would consider buying two seats if I put on even more weight -- I was at the comfort limit. But, I probably would pay to upgrade instead. The United business and first class seats have a lot more room (but not more seatbelt length -- go figure).

    So my question back to you is, instead of buying two coach seats, why not buy one business or first seat?

    Cheers,
    RB
    Last edited by Redbeard; 03-10-11 at 10:37 AM. Reason: No signature.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member Jtgyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoste View Post
    But it's not insane to FLY from Dallas to Denver via Chicago. I'm flying to Philly tomorrow and my trip is routed from TUS to LAX to PHL...very zen-like: in order to go east, first one must fly west.
    That would also be insane...but I can fly direct and non-stop to Denver, Grand Junction, and Montrose, CO....my three most likely destinations.

    Quote Originally Posted by zoste View Post
    One of the problems with train travel is the same as driving: the trip from Tucson (via either Chicago or New Orleans) takes 75 hours. No matter how comfortable the train seat, I wouldn't want to spend three days in it. By flying, I have breakfast in Tucson, dinner in Philadelphia.
    Which would be why I spend extra for the 2 seats. (see photo above)
    Hey, I'm just this GUY...you know?
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  24. #24
    Senior Member Jtgyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbeard View Post
    Hi, folks! I'm a long-time lurker who has decided to join the conversation. At the top of my weight range I had the same problems several of you have mentioned: tray table won't fit, needed the extender, had to choose carefully where I sat. But, my work called upon me to fly a lot. In fact, I'm a million-mile flyer on United.

    The improved comfort of flying at a lower weight has been a huge motivator for me. I flew last weekend (to go bicycling!), and I actually measured FOUR INCHES of slack on the seatbelt! And, the tray table came down on the armrest with a satisfying plop. That felt so good!

    To answer your question, I would consider buying two seats if I put on even more weight -- I was at the comfort limit. But, I probably would pay to upgrade instead. The United business and first class seats have a lot more room (but not more seatbelt length -- go figure).

    So my question back to you is, instead of buying two coach seats, why not buy one business or first seat?

    Cheers,
    RB
    So far the 2 seat option has been cheaper than first class or business...though I'll continue compare. Who knows? I may luck out and be able to afford the upgrade some time.

    --edit-- just did a search same Airline, RT, leaving on same day with a week stay(cheapest non-stop) United coach $361/seat X 2 = $722 ; Business/First Class=$1302
    I can put up with some embarrassment for close to $600
    Last edited by Jtgyk; 03-10-11 at 11:01 AM.
    Hey, I'm just this GUY...you know?
    >>>Team Critical Mess<<< (You mean it's not SUPPOSE to hurt?)

    My nice new Nashbar Touring Build AKA "The Flying Avocadooooooooo!"
    1998(?) Trek 700 Multitrack
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  25. #25
    Neil_B
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    A nice short story on this topic:

    http://www.carvezine.com/issue/2008/spring/jones.htm

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