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Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) Looking to lose that spare tire? Ideal weight 200+? Frustrated being a large cyclist in a sport geared for the ultra-light? Learn about the bikes and parts that can take the abuse of a heavier cyclist, how to keep your body going while losing the weight, and get support from others who've been successful.

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Old 05-22-11, 05:31 PM   #1
needawheel
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minimum spoke for 200lbs long term durability?

24 hole? 28?
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Old 05-22-11, 05:58 PM   #2
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I have 16 spoke Shimano DA wheels that are almost 10 yrs old now. Don't worry about spoke count so much as finding a really good wheel builder. A good wheel builder will give you true long term durability.
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Old 05-22-11, 07:31 PM   #3
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Good wheelbuilder and 28 or 32 hole for long term durability.. If you your a gram counter go with strong over light..

Deep V or Fusion rims from Velocity - CXP33 from Mavic or RR585 or R520 from DT Swiss will all work fine..
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Old 05-22-11, 09:00 PM   #4
needawheel
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have ultegra 20h rearwheel. Don't understand how but guess it will last.

Last edited by needawheel; 05-22-11 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 05-22-11, 09:08 PM   #5
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For a lightweight like 200 lbs (I am over 300lbs); 28H with 14 guage spokes should be fine.

Actually, you can build a lighter stronger wheel with 36 spookes and Wheelsmith XL15 spokes and a light (not deep) rim, than a lower count of spokes with a heavy rim.

Read Sheldon Brown's comment on wheel building and number of spokes.
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Old 05-22-11, 09:14 PM   #6
needawheel
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but XL15 is flexy!
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Old 05-22-11, 10:09 PM   #7
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ksyrium SL's
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Old 05-23-11, 02:32 AM   #8
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but XL15 is flexy!
but the wheel will not be with 36 of them You do need to be very careful with spoke wind up.
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Old 05-23-11, 01:15 PM   #9
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but XL15 is flexy!
A 32/36 spoke wheel with XL15 spokes will be as stiff as a 20/24 spoke wheel with conventional 2.0/1.8 spokes.

I'd pass on the XL15 in favor of a 2.0/1.5 spoke like a DT Revolution because 15 gauge spokes in large hub spoke holes can leave an unsupported part of the elbow which can't be stress relieved.

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Old 05-23-11, 05:56 PM   #10
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ksyrium SL's
+1 but premium model. Over 200 lbs. and I have had no problems.
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Old 05-23-11, 06:38 PM   #11
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At 200 lbs I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old 05-23-11, 08:39 PM   #12
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I recently contacted Velocity about my rear wheel issues and they recommended the Dyad and going with 36 or 40 spokes in a 4 cross pattern. More of a touring wheel than a road wheel, which I think would suit me fine. I don't care about the few extra grams of weight with me weighing about 280. I know continuing my weigt loss will also improve the situation.

I am really thinking 32 hole/3cross up front and 36 or 40 hole/4 cross on the rear. the stock rims on my LeTour seem nice but the back wheel has a few spokes that continually loosen and start pinging before the wheel goes out of true. Usually about 15 miles does it. Frankly, I am sick or re-truing the wheel every time I ride the bike...

The stock rims are Alex PC19. They are not in any of Alex's literature or on their web site. I am sure they are a "budget" wheel for the stock Schwinn bikes in the bike shop. I don't like stock wheels on any bike, aside from my mountain bikes. Those rimes seem to hold up well enough.

Last edited by Profgumby; 05-23-11 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 05-23-11, 09:01 PM   #13
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i am a novice wheelbuilder but it's pretty obvious to me, if you really want to save weight, you can buy a 400 gram rim vs a 525 gram rim and save 125 grams there going with 24 spokes instead of 32 isnt going to save you nearly as much. however, you haven't really told us what kind of bike and what use this is so we are all assuming it's unloaded road cycling. if you really want durability, simply go with 32 holes in the rear and a mid weight (appx 450 gram) rim. There are so many possibilities and everytime these threads come up, one person says "I had a 4 spoke 250 gram carbon rim that lasted through the Rapture and into the afterlife" then someone else tells you "you need a tandem hub respaced to 130mm with 48 spokes"

Generally speaking more spokes means your splitting up the workload more ways. it will help mask bad wheelbuilding but not solve the problem. yes, I'm sure good wheelbuilders can build you a pretty durable low spoke count wheel, but that may come at a premium.
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Old 05-23-11, 09:06 PM   #14
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I recently contacted Velocity
Velocity is very conservative. I have 32 spoke Dyads, and they are rugged.
If you want to be exceedingly cautious, you can do 32 up front and 36 in back.
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Old 05-23-11, 09:34 PM   #15
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I recently contacted Velocity about my rear wheel issues and they recommended the Dyad and going with 36 or 40 spokes in a 4 cross pattern. More of a touring wheel than a road wheel, which I think would suit me fine. I don't care about the few extra grams of weight with me weighing about 280. I know continuing my weigt loss will also improve the situation.

I am really thinking 36 hole/3cross up front and 36 or 40 hole/4 cross on the rear. the stock rims on my LeTour seem nice but the back wheel has a few spokes that continually loosen and start pinging before the wheel goes out of true. Usually about 15 miles does it. Frankly, I am sick or re-truing the wheel every time I ride the bike...
.
You don't need all that. I'm a bit over 250 right now, 28 rear and 24 front 30 mm rims Deep V's. I used these as an experiement as I usually use 32 spokes. Rims are fine after 8000 miles. I got 20,000+ out of the 32 spoke Deep V's.

At 280, a good build with a 32 should do fine. But to be safe, maybe a 36 if you feel better about it.

For the front, I'd bet a 28 spoke Fusion would work well. 32 if you feel better about it.

3 x spoke pattern and a good build.

The 40 stuff is too much, the Fusion up front will save a few grams but still be strong with a good build!

A 36 Deep V rear with 32 and a Fusion up front with 32 woud be great IMO!
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Old 05-23-11, 09:41 PM   #16
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I have contacted my LBS to see what he can come up with. If not the shop about an hour to the North can probably do a good job. I too am leaning more towards the 32 up front and the 36 on the back. Velocity recommended the Dyad as it is possible to put a wider tire on that rim vs the deep V. My Schwinn has 28"s on it now and honestly the tires are performing just fine @100psi. I also think having whatever new wheels trued up by someone using a tension gauge will make a big difference.

It is getting to the point where I am fed up with literally having to have the rear wheel re trued after every ride! The front has been fine so I am sure a 32 will be just fine up there. And coming from riding a '74 Continental battle tank to the LeTour, a few extra grams on the rims will still be a vast improvement over pushing that Continental around!
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Old 05-23-11, 10:49 PM   #17
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I too am leaning more towards the 32 up front and the 36 on the back. Velocity recommended the Dyad as it is possible to put a wider tire on that rim vs the deep V. My Schwinn has 28"s on it now and honestly the tires are performing just fine @100psi. I also think having whatever new wheels trued up by someone using a tension gauge will make a big difference.
!
Be sure sure sure SURE to have the wheels retensioned after 300 miles (breakin period). With heavier rides, they tend to lose some tension in the first period. Don't settle for a ture, make sure they check and retension the spokes even if it's still true. RETENSION !!!!!!! It's the difference between two thousand and twenty thousand happy miles!

Is it 28's you want? I have Deep V's on my tandem and it holds 28's no problem. I believe it's compat up to 32's.

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Old 05-24-11, 03:06 AM   #18
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i agree with beanz except that I would say that if you think your going to run 32's or even larger than skip the deep v and go with velocity dyad or chukkers. At 280lbs your a pretty big boy and while i'm sure the deep v rim is strong enough, you may enjoy the comfort of a riding on 32's more. I weigh around 250 and I enjoy the 700x35's that are on my commuter, the comfort is amazing but for my "race" bike i've got 23's and a set of 25's

You can also consider the Mavic A319 or A719 I have a 36 hole A719 on the rear of my commuter which I often load up with about 30lbs of stuff when I commute and so far it's been great.
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Old 05-29-11, 06:19 PM   #19
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All the advice here leads up to one, undeniable truth. There are some really great wheels out there for a big guy or anyone who loads down a bike with gear. And they are not a lot of money! I understand why my bike is built the way it is from Schwinn and am not upset about it. I almost expected to have to replace the rims.

But then this is why I was looking at a set for a touring bike, that is where I found the Dyad's on Velocity's site. Thanks again for all the help and great info for a novice on wheel builds/construction.

And of course now that I have pretty much decided to replace the wheels, the stock set stayed true on last Thursdays 12 mile ride. I am going to try and put about 40 miles on tomorrow and see how the rims handles it. But even if they do stay true I don't really trust these rims on this bike..I will always be afraid of the next bump or rough road will cause me problems 40 miles out and cause me to hitch ride back to town. Or worse yet, fold up on a downhill or hard climb!

Last edited by Profgumby; 05-29-11 at 06:23 PM. Reason: reason for editing? The spelleng sklis of a 3rd grayder.
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Old 06-01-11, 09:12 AM   #20
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I have a 40 rear on a touring bike with a 28 tire, but 28/24 wheelset on my roadies with 25s...I'm probably 220lb right now. I've never had broken spoke or eyelet cracks on any wheel over the years, but I think I'm just not that hard on wheels. I don't slam the bike side to side when I climb, I don't hop off curbs or blast through potholes. Based on what I read of others people's experience, I suspect the user's riding style has alot to do with the durability of the wheelset.

But my point: Heavy overbuilt wheels and MTB-like tires are a real drag [pun] on anything that' s not a MTB. The fun factor of a stiff lightweight wheelset and light tires on a road frame - that's alot to give up to be "safe".
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Old 06-01-11, 02:56 PM   #21
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I
But my point: Heavy overbuilt wheels and MTB-like tires are a real drag [pun] on anything that' s not a MTB. The fun factor of a stiff lightweight wheelset and light tires on a road frame - that's alot to give up to be "safe".
The performance difference between "overbuilt" and "light weight" road wheels is effectively non-existent and irrelevant unless you're an ectomorph who weighs about 2 pounds per inch of height (140 pounds is a great climbing weight for guys 5'10"), otherwise competitive as a bike racer, and competing in a hill climb. In that situation lighter wheels might change your placing. In any other case variations in your pacing are going to eclipse any measurable difference, even with a power meter.

A 155 pound bike + rider + shoes + water combination which I round to 70kg loosing 100 grams of wheel weight will be .14% faster up steep hills and might gain 5.2 seconds over his opponents for each hour he spends off-the-front.

Although the cost of rotating weight during acceleration approaches double that of non-rotating as you get to the tire surface, the speed attained for a given kinetic energy is inversely proportional to the square root of the sum of total mass and moment of inertia. Assuming 1.5kg of rotating mass and disregarding drag loosing 100g of mass where the tire meets the road would let the example rider sprint to a .15% higher speed.

The effects will be less pronounced for heavier riders.

100g is about the difference between a 32/32 spoke wheel set and 24/20 where you're trying to be weight conscious with 2.0/1.5 (or the equivalent bladed profile like a CX-Ray) spokes and alloy nipples.

For any reasonable multiple of 100g (for 450-500g rims instead of 350-400, 2.0/1.8 instead of 2.0/1.5, brass nipples instead of alloy) the real (as opposed to psychological) differences resulting from wheel weight are still going to be insignificant.

Obviously there's a certain pride of ownership which goes with light wheels. I like being able to build wheels with 2.0/1.5 spokes which stay straight after leaving my truing stand (because they don't have wind-up) with alloy nipples I can re-use for a few decades and rim replacements following crashes (because I take care to use long enough spokes to avoid broken nipples and the time to lubricate the spoke threads with anti-seize). That's fine where it doesn't conflict with durability (2.0/1.5 spokes are still much stronger than needed and alloy nipples are fine as long as the builder does his job right; but a lighter rim is more likely to bend encountering an obstacle and suffer) or the wheel being rideable after damage (enough spokes are needed) although in other situations it's probably the wrong compromise (350 gram alloy rims which start cracking in one season (provided you don't bend them) and don't even save 100 grams total off 400 gram rims because you need more spokes for the wheels to be stiff enough.).

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