CliftonGK1

I tore apart an old wheel and used Sheldon's wheelbuilding guide to learn how to lace one up. Then I just practiced tensioning and truing on an inexpensive stand (Minoura Pro) until I got it right. I still use the cheapo stand for building my wheels; it works just fine. When I got serious about building, I bought Musson's book and Brandt's book to get what I consider to be the top two opinions on wheelbuilding science and theory, and started playing around with some inexpensive components and building wheels for myself.
So far I still don't build anything fancy for myself; just plain old 3 cross, straight gauge, 32 spokes... But they're nigh indestructable. Here's my investment in builder's tools:

- Minoura Pro truing stand: $55.00
- Park TM-1 tension meter: $65.00
- Park WAG-4 dishing tool: $35.00
- Generic 3 spoke wrench set: $12.00
TOTAL : $167.00

I think my books were another $40 or something close. Now that I've got the skills, I build and true my own and save a TON of money. My last singlespeed wheelset was under $100. $15.00/ea for rims, $20/ea for hubs and $0.45/ea for spokes. I already had the hubs for my brevet wheels, so my cost was $28/ea for rims, and $0.45/ea for spokes (I always build with DT Swiss Champion 2.0)

shriekingmonkey

OK guys, here's one more wrinkle: tire pressure!

So when I picked the bike up today from shop #2, they expressed their disapproval at the current tire pressures. I hadn't changed what shop #1 had pumped them up to; as I mentioned earlier I took it straight from shop #1 to shop #2. Now, when I originally bought this bike, I was going by the tire pressure printed on the sidewalls, that said 65-85 PSI, and I was pumping them up to just under the max of 85 PSI, and that's what I'd been doing since I bought it last year, up until a few weeks ago when I picked up my bike from shop #1. When I went to check the tire pressure before leaving the next morning, I noticed they were pumped up to almost 100 PSI, which freaked me out a little bit. I talked to them about it later that day, they said that the "max" PSI wasn't a hard limit, and they recommended I stick with 100 PSI. So, that's what I've been doing since, assuming they know what they are talking about, and that's what they have been inflating them to before the bike leaves the shop.

Now, shop #2 is telling me that could very well be contributing to the breakage problem (although, I was having spoke breakage well before I started pumping them up to 100). Now, they are telling me that I probably shouldn't put more than 75 PSI in, 80 tops. They are saying that way the tire will absorb a lot more of the impact of bumps/vibration/etc, which intuitively makes sense to me. But, I'm a little worried that it's going to feel like I'm riding on a flat tire and/or getting pinch flats, and probably going to make me slower ... but I'm willing to give it a shot.

But I'm curious, what do you guys think? (BTW, these are 700x35 tires)

CliftonGK1

I can't imagine a 35mm tire needing 100psi. The biggest risk you're looking at in that case is popping the bead off the rim unless you're using a wide (24mm+) rim like a Dyad, Adventurer or CR18.

I roll some 37mm WTB All-Terrains at 65psi on the road. For trails I'll take 'em down to 52psi when it's dry and 45 - 47psi when it's wet out.
I have a pair of 34mm Clement PDX Crusades that I use at 37 - 40psi in the slop.

Some of my skinny-minnie teammates run their 33mm tubie mud tires in the low 20s for psi.

pdlamb

I can't think of any reason tire pressure could contribute to breaking spokes. Blowing up a rim, maybe, although I've ridden enough miles with 32-27 tires pumped to 90-100 psi I don't think that should be an issue with decent rims. But I've since found the ride is a bit more comfortable with 80-90 psi inflation, and as long as I don't wait two weeks between checking and pumping (resulting in 50-60 psi), no pinch flats either!

jethro56 

On my 35's I've never ran over 75 PSI even when I was your weight. I agree with Shop #2.

I have a TM1 and spoke wrenches I'll have to get the rest of the stuff.

sstorkel

If your tire pressure is too low, you'll get pinch flats in your tube or dent your rim. If your tire pressure is too high, you'll pop the tire off the wheel or damage the rim. In neither case will you be likely to break spokes...

It sounds to me like Shop #2 knows what they're doing: I run the 700x35 tires on my touring bike at around 70psi when I have the bike loaded up with gear. Their recommendation of 75-80psi sounds reasonable to me.

gyozadude

Any chance you can look at the ends of the spokes for the brand/maker of those spokes? Lots of cheap spokes out there with bad forging processes. I agree with Jobst Brandt. The number one issue with spoke breakage is residual stress left by bad manufacturing. Loose spokes, lack of tension and affect rim true and round. But they don't break spokes. I've been riding the same set of 32H Ritchey Vantage Comps and old Sun/Nashbar CR18 pre-eyelet box rims on my commuter bike. 20 years now. Same double butted Wheelsmith spokes. But I'm 300 lbs, 6'2" and ride 26 x 1.9inch slick tires for commute. Those tires are rated to 70 psi, but I ride them at 60. Never a problem. I do have spokes come out of tension occasionally. But I carry a spoke wrench, and a minute to touch true during a quick stop and it's good for a few hundred more miles.

shriekingmonkey

Don't know what brand was on the original wheel, but the custom built wheel has Sapim spokes on it.

Haven't ridden since Monday; needed to have the car for lunch today. Hopefully I can get in 20 or so miles in the morning and it won't fall apart on me. I'm gonna try running at 75 PSI and see how it goes.

gyozadude

Sapim spokes are quality stuff. I'm surprised at the breakage. I have a road bike and run ISO 32x622 tires on it and only go to 70psi with 87psi max. It's smooth, quiet and super comfy. What it sounds like is you're going to need to either get some experience hands-on with wheels and try to built your own. It may be cheaper to buy a quality wheel someone else makes, but I suspect, if you do it yourself and learn and do some trial/error, you might be pleasantly surprised. I've found that sometimes, the cheapest single-wall rims, despite being a bit heavier, are excellent rims. And building them with decent stainless spokes makes for some very economical, but super sturdy wheels if you do it yourself and pay due diligence to tensioning.

Mr. Beanz

Also reading Sheldon Brown.

shriekingmonkey

I need to learn a lot about bike maintenance in general, but this is definitely high on my list of things to do! Got some good info on this thread to get started with.

jr59

It's to bad that I don't know where big Tony is working now. He used to be down in Buckhead.

I lost touch with him. Sorry!

As far as maintenance goes, youtube is your friend. They have something for most of it.

Pressure... I'm 265 and ride 35's on my CC @ 70-80 without problems. Sometimes lower!

@ clifton, Those Dyad rims are GREAT! And whats wrong with 3 crossed spokes!

Sayre Kulp 

BTW - this thread had me frustrated earlier today. After several years and thousands of miles without breaking a single spoke, my first one went pop today. I just made me laugh and shake my head because it happened not 48 hours after I posted about not having broken one.

Lesson to be learned here, folks: Fate is not a kind mistress. That ***** will sneak up and kick you in the balls while you sleep.

diverkiwi

LOL, Sorry to hear Sayre