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  1. #1
    Senior Member goldfinch's Avatar
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    bike comparison and questions

    I ride a Cannondale Quick4 Hybrid. It is aluminum with a carbon fork and has 26 inch wheels. I am short and thus my bike choices are limited. A friend's wife is also short. She just bought a Surly LHT and has an old Terry for sale. It has a 24 inch front wheel and a standard 700 on the back. I am borrowing it for a couple of days to try out. She has made a number of modifications. Bar end shifters. New fancy brakes. A different gearing set up from standard.

    I stood on the scale and weighed both bikes. The Terry weighs about 24 pounds and the Cannondale close to 30 (It has at least a pound, maybe two, of crap on it though).

    I have now ridden the Terry all of three miles. Here is the bike:



    Here is the bike sitting by my bike, for comparison purposes:



    The bad as compared to the Cannondale:

    --It looks like the Terry is probably too big for me. I roughly set the seat height by measuring from the top of my seat on my Cannondale to the middle of the crank and then set the Terry seat a bit lower. It could probably go up a half inch to an inch. But, the top tube is really too high. Technically I can stand over it but it is right there, probably an eighth of an inch from my public bone. It made stops a bit unnerving. (She also has clip-ons which were a bit awkward).

    --It felt a little twitchy when steering. I don't know if that has to do with the small front wheel.

    --The bar end shifters were awkward but that likely is do to inexperience with both the bike and the shifters. The front derraileur is friction shifted and the rear index.

    The good as compared to the Cannondale:

    --Quiet! My Cannondale is a noisy bike and the pedals and drivetrain and always made something of a racket. This bike is dead quiet and smooth.

    --Easy on the bumps. My short ride was a quarter mile down the dirt road, over the railroad tracks, a quarter mile down the highway which has compression joints, down a smooth road with a small hill. The compression joints were far easier to take on this skinny wheel bike. Why is that? Is the pressure in my hybrid tires too high? Or is it steel vs. aluminum? Also, the dirt road and railroad tracks were much easier on me. This was a big surprise. I thought it would be worse, not better, on the bumps.

    --Really nice hand positions. I could ride "on the hoods" and easily operate the brakes. I could ride with my hands on top of the bar. I could ride in the drops. This is handy as I have a bad shoulder and need to move around. I did not mess with the handlebar height, but they are adjustable and could come down.

    These are my initial impressions. I want to try it on a hill to see how it is going up the tough hills. This bike has a super low granny gear and the gearing is kind of odd on the rear:



    This gearing made it feel like there was almost no distance between the gears and then a big jump down to the low gear. I am not sure that I like that but two miles is too soon to tell.

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    Galveston County Texas 10 Wheels's Avatar
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    Why are you riding it?
    [SIZE=1][B]What I like about Texas[/B]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGukLuXzH1E

    Set F1re To The Ra1n ( NY Night Rain Ride)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7jfcWEkSrI

  3. #3
    Senior Member goldfinch's Avatar
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    For fun? In the long run I might want a road bike. This one is inexpensive so if it fit I might buy it. She was nice enough to let me try it for a few days. But I think that it is too big because of the top tube. I guess what I am wondering about is how this road bike might compare to other road bikes that I would clearly be spending a lot more money on and I am wondering why in some ways it seems so much better than my bike. For example, I never realized how loud my bike sounded until I rode this one. And I was really surprised at how comfortably it takes the lumps and bumps.
    Last edited by goldfinch; 08-07-11 at 06:03 PM.

  4. #4
    Galveston County Texas 10 Wheels's Avatar
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    The forward lean on a road bike is more comfortable for most riders.

    You use your legs as shock absorbers on bumps.
    The narrow tires require less effort to pedal.

    Do another test. Ride each one about five miles or more on the same road.

    If you can get on and off, the bike it fits.

    Just my 2 cents.
    [SIZE=1][B]What I like about Texas[/B]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGukLuXzH1E

    Set F1re To The Ra1n ( NY Night Rain Ride)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7jfcWEkSrI

  5. #5
    Galveston County Texas 10 Wheels's Avatar
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    Your Cannondale should be quite.
    Take it back to your shop and let them know.
    [SIZE=1][B]What I like about Texas[/B]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGukLuXzH1E

    Set F1re To The Ra1n ( NY Night Rain Ride)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7jfcWEkSrI

  6. #6
    Senior Member goldfinch's Avatar
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    Well, I can get on and off but I am not sure I am comfortable with such a high top tube.

    With my Cannondale I am always using my legs as shock absorbers. I found that there is less shock to absorb on the Terry.

    Tomorrow I am going to do a ride on my regular route, which has a bunch of hills and will be a good test. I'll do the test with both bikes one after the other. My hunch is that I like a steel road bike but would prefer one a bit smaller. The top tube length seems really good--I measured the TT and it was 50cm. I can find a few road bikes with a 50cm TT that also have a standover less that the 28.5" that this bike has. But the low price makes this tempting.

    Do you think I should drop the handlebars a bit for tomorrow's ride? They actually feel pretty good high up the way they are.

  7. #7
    Senior Member goldfinch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
    Your Cannondale should be quite.
    Take it back to your shop and let them know.
    I have had it to three shops for varying adjustments(I travel 75% of the year). They all say that it is as good as it will get.

  8. #8
    Galveston County Texas 10 Wheels's Avatar
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    My Cannondale is quite.
    [SIZE=1][B]What I like about Texas[/B]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGukLuXzH1E

    Set F1re To The Ra1n ( NY Night Rain Ride)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7jfcWEkSrI

  9. #9
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    The top tube clearance on a road bike is usually minimal, but you need to feel comfortable with it. If after the series of rides you plan, you feel it fits, then it probably fits.

    The steel of the Terry is probably a little better at absorbing overall road vibration than the Quick. Some of my bikes are noisier than others and it does not seem to have to do with original price. If it were me, I would probably buy it (if the price is right for me). If I continue to like it, I would upgrade the rear cassette if it still was an issue. If I decide I don't like it, a Terry bike should be relative easy to sell.

    My 2 cents,
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  10. #10
    Senior Member goldfinch's Avatar
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    Thanks pinsonp. My friend's wife has been trying to sell it for a month with no luck. They think people find it weird looking. A couple of people looked and then walked away. It is weird looking, with that tiny front wheel and the modifications, like the bar end shifters. Oddly, that is partly putting me off. It just seems ugly. But so smooth!

  11. #11
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Quite .. what?



    Mega range gear clusters jump 10 teeth 24 to 34, another choice
    is a ratio set that adds another gear in between , 24,28,34.
    In cassettes K cluster is a 13.15.17, 20 24,29, 34..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 08-09-11 at 12:05 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member CACycling's Avatar
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    The shorter forks and smaller wheel radically change the geometry of the bike resulting in steeper head and seat tube angles than the way the bike was designed. IMHO, that is a bike that was cobbled together to make it fit a certain person that needed a different sized bike to begin with. I'm not surprised they've had trouble selling it.

    As for your bike, I have a very hard time believing that making a racket is a condition you have to live with. A good mechanic should be able to identify the source of the noise(s) and rectify the problem. And some smaller tires would probably make it feel a bit zippier as well as reducing the weight a bit.

  13. #13
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    I find it as no surprise when riders comment on how smooth and comfortable a road bike can be. Most think the drops are murder but don't realize how comfortable it can be riding the hoods.

    As far as the top tube, keep in mind, many new bikes have the compact/sloping top tube style frame like Gina's bike. Plus, most WSD (women specific design) from the major brands take the female public bone into consideration.

    And yeah, that's a funky custom setup set up on the rear of the Terry. A new bike will have several options as a rear set up. The reason her gears are that way is because it's only 7 speed and she wanted that tall gear fro the climbs. A new 10 speed will have a gradual increase throughout the cogset (greater number of gears).


    Forgot to add, as far as the twitchy steering, it can be different from bike to bike depending on several things, fork rake, wheel base, stem length etc. Gina got this bike after riding her other bike for 7 or 8 years and had a hard time with the twitchy feel at first. Took about a month to master it and now she handles the bike really well. Actually much better than the old bike.

    I'm not so sure anymore about new models but some WSD bikes used to come with 650 wheels instead of the taller 700c wheels on most road bikes. Not sure how tall you are but Gina is 5'4 and never had a problem with 700 wheels. Especially with the new sloping top tube. You can see it has lots of clearance for the public bones.


    Last edited by Mr. Beanz; 08-09-11 at 12:56 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member goldfinch's Avatar
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    Well, I decided to pass on the bike. But it made me realize that I want a road bike. I really like the handbars.

    I hope to find one that rides as smooth.

    Now on the Cannondale. As I rode today I paid attention to where noises come from. The front derailleur rubs when I am in the lower gears on the middle chain ring. The is mechanically irritating to me plus it is noisy. I complained about this to the three bike shops I visited and they all fussed with the derailleur. I was told this is the best they can do. One even told me I wouldn't notice it once I was riding fast enough and had enough wind noise. Ha!

    The tires are noisy. The tires are probably more aggressive than I want or need for pavement. Someone mentioned the possibilities of different wheels. I have 26 inch wheels on my bike. Is this really a possibility? Does one only change the wheels and tires or are there lots of other things that would have to change?

    Beanz, Gina's bike is absolutely beautiful. What size frame does she ride? I am only 4'11" and choices are limited but there are some 42-44cm frames that look like they would fit.
    Last edited by goldfinch; 08-09-11 at 01:54 PM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member CACycling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldfinch View Post
    Now on the Cannondale. As I rode today I paid attention to where noises come from. The front derailleur rubs when I am in the lower gears on the middle chain ring. The is mechanically irritating to me plus it is noisy. I complained about this to the three bike shops I visited and they all fussed with the derailleur. I was told this is the best they can do. One even told me I wouldn't notice it once I was riding fast enough and had enough wind noise. Ha!

    Should be a simple derailleur adjustment but difficult to be sure without seeing in person.
    Quote Originally Posted by goldfinch View Post
    The tires are noisy. The tires are probably more aggressive than I want or need for pavement. Someone mentioned the possibilities of different wheels. I have 26 inch wheels on my bike. Is this really a possibility? Does one only change the wheels and tires or are there lots of other things that would have to change?

    No need to change wheels. Get some narrower tires like these:
    http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1070099_-1_1590008_20000_400237
    They’ll be quieter, lighter and feel much faster. (You’ll probably also need to change tubes with the tires as yours will be too large.)

  16. #16
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldfinch View Post
    Beanz, Gina's bike is absolutely beautiful. What size frame does she ride? I am only 4'11" and choices are limited but there are some 42-44cm frames that look like they would fit.
    Wow, you are short!. Her Trek in the pic is a 49 (WSD) but she rides a 51 in a traditional type frame (mens with narrow hb's).

    As far as the noise, I don't know about the shifters on your Canni, but road shifters have a 1/2 step shift that allows you to move the cage slightly over to desired direction and position to eliminate chain rub. This is called "trim".

    I myself have a double and a triple. Many riders with triples avoid the granny ring for no other reason than to say they don't' need it. My opinion, it's silly. Here's why.

    If you have a triple, a few of the gears are repeats/copies. So if I am on the middle front gear and I get a slight chain rub, I am better of switching to the granny to hold a straight chain line. So yeah, OK, I am a big sissy for using the granny ring. NOT! The gear inch combo that I selected is more than likely a repeat of the gear I was using on the middle ring but without the chain rub.

    I make it a point to switch the front gear if I have to use the inner most two cogs (gears in the back) or the two outer most cogs. Once I am that far over in the rear, it makes more sense to change the front and bring the chain position in the back more to a straight line which means being in the center of the cog set.

    Keeping a straight chain line makes the bike sound much better, better on the components and makes switching gears much smoother. I stay inward with the rear chain and it makes the shifting smoother, this is known as using the transition cogs. Cogs, gears that make the change run smoother. Shift your bike to the tallest cog then shift to the small ring in front, that will likely throw your chain off, not good! Reverse principle, making the shift smoother without losing the chain, shift while toward the center of the cog set.

    I have been on rides with other riders using a triple. We hit a climb that is 4% (not steep) I switch to my granny and the 19 cog in the rear and the 30 granny up front.

    My partner is avoiding his granny to prove he's macho so he's running his middle ring 39 up front and his cog in the back a 25.

    We get to the top and he says, I'm stronger because I used my middle ring and you used your granny ring.

    Guess what, my granny 30/19 is equal to 43 gear inches while your middle ring 39/25 is equal to 42 gear inches. So actually we pushed nearly the same identical gear up the hill only my bike was quiet and ran smoothly while he had that annoying gear rub and cross chained all the way up, which is not good.


    So in short ...if you get noise in the middle ring, switch to the small ring up front then switch the rear toward the center of the cog set somewhere till you feel the same resistance you felt in the middle ring but with no noise! Odds are you are probably using the same gear inch combo

  17. #17
    Starting over CraigB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    Wow, you are short!
    I had a girl friend (not a girlfriend) in high school who was about that height. Her father used to tell her she should sue the city for building the sidewalks too close to her butt.
    Craig in Indy

  18. #18
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigB View Post
    I had a girl friend (not a girlfriend) in high school who was about that height. Her father used to tell her she should sue the city for building the sidewalks too close to her butt.
    ......Funny, I really like short wimmins. 6'1 but I like mines 5 feet. When I met Gina, she's 5'4 and I thought she was a little too tall for me.

  19. #19
    Senior Member goldfinch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CACycling View Post
    Should be a simple derailleur adjustment but difficult to be sure without seeing in person.
    You would think. But three bike mechanics were not able to adjust the derailleur so it wouldn't rub.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    Wow, you are short!
    Yup. Sometimes I think people might wonder why a 122 pounder is on the Clyde/Athena board and I wish my weight loss ticker showed the height as well. I was very round at 158 pounds and wore a size 2x. I am still overweight at 122, especially given my very small frame.

    Beanz, I have been playing with the gears to try to avoid using the lowest two or three on the middle chain ring, where I have the rubbing problems. I seem to end up shifting the front derailleur a lot as a result. I can "trim" it a little, but not enough to stop the rubbing.
    Last edited by goldfinch; 08-09-11 at 03:25 PM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member goldfinch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CACycling View Post
    ]No need to change wheels. Get some narrower tires like these:[/FONT][/SIZE]
    http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1070099_-1_1590008_20000_400237
    They’ll be quieter, lighter and feel much faster. (You’ll probably also need to change tubes with the tires as yours will be too large.)
    Thanks! I might cheat and have a bike shop do it. Or finally actually use my tool kit and change a tire.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Seattle Forrest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldfinch View Post
    With my Cannondale I am always using my legs as shock absorbers. I found that there is less shock to absorb on the Terry.
    Less shock in general, or was your back and butt less beat up at the end of the ride? The Terry looks like it's set up for a pretty upright posture, but I'd bet it's still putting more of your weight over the front wheel than you're used to, taking some off the back wheel, keeping you somewhat better balanced, and changing how the shock gets to you.

    Also, the fork is curved outward, so that it should compress a little (like a spring) when you hit a bump, where yours is straight, like a column. I can't say just how much effect that should have on road buzz, but it should help some.
    Don't believe everything you think.

  22. #22
    Senior Member goldfinch's Avatar
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    Less shock in general. My rides were too short to say that I was less beat up. Interesting comments on the geometry, thanks.

  23. #23
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    i asked you this in your other post but haven't clicked back on it since earlier but if you add bar ends to your flat bar you will have some more hand positions that will allow you more comfort but still not as many as a drop bar. There is no way your cannondale should be 30lbs. I'm going to assume that weight includes not only the rack but the bag on it as well. I am 6'3 and had a giant rapid xl frame that is much bigger than your bike and it had a steel fork not a carbon fork and it only weighed 26lbs with a rack on it. There are ways you couldget your bike lighter.

    My gf is 5'3 so quite a bit taller than you but she rides the Dawes lightning dlx from bikesdirect.com she has the xs 44cm frame size. This bike also has sloping toptube geometry and you would definately fit on it. the only mod i had to make for her was I had to cut down the length of her seatpost because it would hit the screws from the bottle cages (picture the cage screws on the inside of the seat tube. the seat tube is so short because the frame is small.) ONce I cut the seat post down I was able to get the seat low enough for her. As it is, the seat could still be lowered a good 4 or 5 inches which is why I say this bike would probably fit you. it is a very entry level bke and affordable. I personally made a few upgrades to it and actually switched it back to a flat bar bike and put the drops on my bike.

    You could convert your quick to drops but many would say it isn't cost effective.

  24. #24
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    Just my late 2 cents... a friend of mine used to ride that Terry - it was a pain carrying two sets of tubes all the time (half the time she forget and had only the one size and the other always got the flat. The 700c was OK 'cause we all carried those - the 650 was a pain). And its very hard to change out 650c tires. So you were smart to pass.

    If you can, find a bike with 700c wheels. Tubes are easier to locate and changing a flat not so difficult. Bike will roll better. You'll just be happier.

    BTW for the Cannondale if you put road slicks on the wheels and take off the rack and bag it would weight about the same as the Terry.
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  25. #25
    Starting over CraigB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamestique View Post
    BTW for the Cannondale if you put road slicks on the wheels and take off the rack and bag it would weight about the same as the Terry.
    And the reflectors, too. Don't forget the reflectors.
    Craig in Indy

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