DaHaMac

Noglider, your advice about breaking reminds me of what I read on Sheldon Brown's website. I admit that I reach for the rear brake first though and use it to slow my momentum and then when I am actually ready to stop I pull the front brake.

This is the reason why I am trying to get my brakes to skid. This is from the State of Georgia Laws concerning bicycles:

40-6-296.
(b) Every bicycle sold or operated shall be equipped with a brake which will enable the operator to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level pavement.

mgb

Hi Tom.

I'm here, just earning a living as we all must. And contemplating my options. This thread has been very useful to me. I thank all who responded. The brakes are Dia Compe G side pulls that mount with the external nut. I guess the new designs are much better and I can replace these, though they seem to be in good shape. The brake pads are very hard -- age, someone here said? So they have to go in any case. The sponginess of (especially) the rear brake seems to be take up in the long brake cable. The cables don't seem to be sticky or corroded but also should be replaced with something modern. I like the bike and it fits me and holds my weight, but it is a steel Schwinn almost 30 years old. Until I can at least replace the brake pads I'm staying out of traffic and off the hills.

- Mike

CraigB

Because the state says your bike's brakes must be able to engender a skid isn't the same thing as recommending you do it as standard braking practice. It's simply a measure of how powerful and effective your brakes are. Of course, you may already understand this, and all you're doing is seeing if your bike complies.

CraigB

Don't necessarily assume that the "sponginess" of the rear brake is because of an excessively long cable run - it's probably no longer than on any other bike that size. It may just need tightening, either at the barrel adjuster (if it has one), or back at the clamp at the business end of the cable.

DaHaMac

Yup, I am just trying to comply. Translating what I know from motorized vehicles means to me that when the brakes are skidding in a true stopping situation that you are on the verge of an "Oh Crap" moment. I never plan to skid brakes in an emergency situation or I know that I have probably waited far too late to stop. (Tuck and Roll)

I put new pads on front of the World Tourist last night and tried to tighten the brakes all around. However, I still don't get the warm fuzzy about the bikes braking abilities. Of course, that is cheap Bell pads on Old Schwinn Steel wheels so I can't expect much. Coupled with the fact that I feel like I am having to push the bike when I ride it, I feel like the World Tourist may have to find another home. I'm growing weary of tweaking and adjusting everytime I set out to ride.

dahut

This does not state that your bike must make that skid with you aboard, flying down hills at breakneck speed.

What you see here is the generally accepted method for testing brake adjustments and is pretty well standard where such requirements are cited. Georgia has recently come to the fore with sound bicycling laws, to the betterment of all. Like most of these citations, however, it is open to interpretation.

Here is the unstated part of this so-called requirement: Your grippers should make the wheel skid on dry pavement, at a moderate, or coasting, speed (5mph). You can fine tune from there, within limits.

From Paul Dorn's "Bike To Work" guide:

"...4. Squeeze tightly on the brake lever for the rear brake. If the rear wheel skids slightly, brake pressure is adequate."

Expecting your brakes to throw you into a Hollywood slide at the bottom of a mile long speed descent is a shaky hope. This is especially so for anyone who's weight is in the upper ranges. Pump those breaks and manage your speed on descents.

motobecane69

somehow i missed the part about steel wheels. thats half your problem right there. your bike is brakeing fine. just plan accordingly when going down hills, refrain from going down them at breakneck speeds. start saving for a new bike pronto.

icemonkey

I thought Id throw myself into the fray as ive had brake issues for a while. I live in the middle of the rockies so my descents are a bit, well... big. Really big. So first some home truths, old brakes are terrible, no where near as good as dual pivots. I have been using Modolo speedys and almost acceptable use out of them with Koolstop salmon pads and most importantly NEW CABLES and HOUSING. Get really good housing very important, ive been using Gatorbrake super fortress - ugly but good. It made braking better, if not acceptable for scary stuff. Modern brakes are great and work really well. For the vintage look ive just moved to Dia Compe Aero Gran Compe and they are good with modern pads - ive heard that later campy records are great, but ive never tried them. Good luck.

rsacilotto

My $.02: I'm in the 240 (+/- 10) range, 51 years old. A few years ago I noticed that I was having trouble stopping on really steep hills (over 12%) where I didn't remember such an issue when I was in my 20's. I had the same equipment (now-vintage Campy record sidepulls), but I didn't realize other things had changed - weight and the onset of rheumatoid arthritis. The stopping problem was mostly on the drops, where I couldn't get good leverage. The problem popped up "suddenly" only because I had stopped riding for a long while due to a knee injury, and only recently been riding on steep hills. Upgrading to modern levers and dual-pivot calipers (with KoolStop pads) solved the problem, but I don't know if it was the levers, calipers or both. Either way, I feel totally confident now where I didn't before. One thing to check - if your brakes are properly adjusted and you replace the pads, see how the braking feels on the tops vs. the drops. I commute on a 1988 Schwinn Voyageur, I replaced the stock Dia-Compe levers with the old Campy levers, and I notice a huge difference in stopping power when I'm on the drops. Of course, YMMV. Also, I agree with the comment about cleaning rims and pads with rubbing alcohol, especially if the bike was used in the rain.

cyclist2000

He did reply in post #13 that he has a Schwinn Super Sport with aluminum rims and Dia Compe side pull brakes. But he has the original (28 year old) brake pads.

OP, There are some better side pull brakes out there, dual pivot front brakes work much better and as others have suggested that the Kool Stops are a good pad to use. I'm sure that any pad is better than those old ones.

mgb

I've ordered the Kool Stop Salmon pads and should have them in a couple of days. I'm pretty much convinced now that I will need to replace the calipers and cables (and housings). This is my ride, not a collector's item, and I'm on it every day even if only for a few miles.

My original question was, what kind of braking performance should I expect in that kind of downhill must stop situation? The answer, clearly, is much more than I have. The funny thing is that until then I hadn't realized just how substandard my brakes were, or rather didn't know that they could be and should be much better. Big guys on old bikes absolutely need top quality brakes and the skill to use them! So I'll practice, hopefully without losing any skin, but I'll practice in any case.

bradtx

We can adapt too easily at times and it takes a bit of a wake up call to bring an issue to the forefront. Substandard brakes can be acceptable in maybe 95% of riding situations as we're usually just slowing down to a stop. However in the other 5% the skills you're going to practice along with your more powerful brakes can prevent road rash, or worse.

Brad

mgb

I got the Kool-Stop Mountain pads which fit nicely in the original calipers. I trued the back wheel as best I could so that I could position the pads close to the rim. And I cleaned both rims with rubbing alcohol. First test - yes I can skid the back wheel using the back brake alone at low speed. And both brakes feel much better and are much more effective. I took the bike out for a 33 mile ride today with some hills and I always felt in control. I can brake well on the hoods as well as on the drops.

These brakes work well enough now, if I keep the speed under control on the donwhills. Now I just need some parking lot practice in stopping short. Hey, maybe I can practice my track stand, too. If I keep the bike I'll eventually get new calipers and cables. If I pass it on at least I'll know that the next owner is getting a safe set of brakes.

- Mike

motobecane69

brake cables are $5 and about 10 minutes to replace. Go ahead and put some new cables on because you also run the risk of having one of these old cables snap on you and that would mean NO BRAKES AT ALL!

asmac

How well should brakes work going downhill? Very, very well. I decided to try hydraulic discs and will never go back to rim brakes.

DARKSCOPE001

I wish road bikes had disk brakes. I had them on my mountain bike and they were nice. They worked wet or dry. hot cold and they had alot of modulation. I had avid bb7 with the gen2 rotors (I think thats what they are called the wavey ones) Loved them. They could easily lock up both wheels. But afaik road wheels are very susceptible to "wind up" and having the brake force at the hub center would cause a severe wind up condition and could possibly lead to broken spokes this really only applies to low spoke count wheels like 20 and below.

Also this is what I have found to be true with cable actuated anything, brakes, derailleurs. Buy the higher end cables that are generally slick coated they help alot. Also its my opinion that if you replace the cables due to time in service or wear do the housing too. Its only a few bucks to do the whole run so do it right. Im interested in an earlyer post by ice monkey where he suggests using aligator super fortress cable kit. https://www.alligatorcables.com/super...yID=1&KindID=3 I have traditionally used what my local bike shop carries (shimano) and sprayed some dry lube in there (I use gt85 but any Teflon dry lube will work the same)

Make sure the brakes are adjusted propery and go for a quick ride or to and then recheck the brakes as the cables can stretch a little when new and things seat in. Altho modern manufacturing minimizes stretch it never hurts to double check.

Thanks
Sean Scott

Swervo

Figured I'd also pile on this thread rather than start a new one, and I'll try some of the tips in here, like hitting the braking surface with alcohol and scrubbing them down.

I've just bought my first road bike in a few decades - previously I had a hybrid with disk brakes, this one's got rim brakes. The brakes don't seem to work too badly, I haven't had any major complaints about them, but there's something that's unnerving me. If I use them for more than a second or two at medium or higher pressure, the noise they make rapidly changes from a slight hiss as they grab the rims to a very loud scraping sound, it sounds like someone dragging a big flattened cardboard box over concrete. It's loud enough that people turn around to figure out what the hell the noise is. The noise will then stay like that the next time I hit the brakes, even if I hit them lightly, but as long as I only use them lightly, they'll eventually quiet back down with use. As soon as I have to hit them harder, though, they'll go right back to making a huge racket. Braking performance doesn't seem to change when this happens, but it is a thoroughly unpleasant sound.

Does this sound wildly out of the ordinary, or is it expected? I'm worried I'm doing something like overheating them, or potentially, somehow, causing damage to the tires and would prefer not to have a tire blow out on me under heavy braking.

bradtx

Adjust the pad's toe-in where the front touches down just before the rear to eliminate, or at the least reduce brake squeal.

Brad

rsacilotto

Do you notice grooves worn in the rim? With Shimano pads, I had problems where the pad would pick up some grit, hold onto it and then scrape the rim - this would cause small bits of aluminum to become embedded in the pads, causing more scraping, sounded a lot like you mentioned. I changed to KoolStop salmon pads, they seem to be much better at staying clean. Check your pad surface and look for bits of metal.

Swervo

Will do both of those. I don't think it's the toe-in, as there's no actual squeal, just that scraping noise. Will definitely take a look at it - the brakes are the stock Shimano jobbies, wheels are aluminum, maybe that's the cause, and I'll look into swapping out the pads.

dahut

Id agree with the latter. Youre probably going to find some bits of imbedded aluminum in the pads, for the reasons mentioned.
Part of my weekly maintenance check routine is to inspect for this and prick out any metal found. It happens; part of the game. But you learn to look for it.