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  1. #26
    Ridin' South Cackalacky dahut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
    If you're alternating between trying to maintain a decent cadence in a low gear while keeping your lungs from exploding followed by spinning out in your highest gear with a big grin on your face, it's hilly.

    If you break your tuck to stay under 40mph, it's hilly.

    If you pass a jogger, and you worry about staying ahead of him, it's hilly.
    This works, in the main.

    I dont pass joggers; I dont even see other cyclists. But as a whole, this is about right.
    "Watch out for giants; they are boorish fools with tongues wagging, drunk upon their own words.
    They will try to teach you a lesson if given the chance, and you will stumble over their stinking feet."

  2. #27
    Senior Member Seattle Forrest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1855Cru View Post
    I agree a hilly ride to me may not be to someone else, I was just interested to see what others considered hilly. In your case, wow, 3,500ft of climbing in 15 miles would be brutal in my book That's about a 4.5% avg grade over the entire ride, I don't have anything on my scale to describe that
    Come visit Seattle, and ride Hurricane Ridge. If you make it in the next few weeks, I'll join you. It's 5,240 feet of climbing in 17 miles, starting at sea level and ending near timberline:

    Don't believe everything you think.

  3. #28
    A Mountaineering thing Hillbasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post
    I've been agonizing over whether to do this ride this weekend: http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/52001136

    This is the most hills I've ever done, by far. MMR says 1300ft of climbing, but in my experience they are always off by at least half. I predict it's closer to 2500-3000 feet, over 40 miles. It says 3 category 5 climbs. Which scares me. I've only done 3 cat5's ever so far, each on separate rides. Each one exhausted me to a point where I could hardly continue. I end up doing them in my lowest gear (22/27), at a cadence of about 50, because I simply cannot spin any faster. I drove the course already... these hills look even bigger than the previous cat5's I've done.

    Sigh.
    You will never know until you try. I bet you make it, and easier than you think you will.

  4. #29
    Senior Member TacomaSailor's Avatar
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    Florida Hills from a Seattle perspective

    A lot of my family lives in Florida - that is nice for us in the winter - I've noticed during the last 45 years that it occasionally rains here in the Puget Sound during the October to thru June period that we call winter.

    While riding in Florida I stopped in a small town to ask directions. They were very helpful and said "go about two miles North - after you go up and over the BIG hill - turn left at the bottom..."

    Couldn't find the place to turn left - went back for more help - turns out the BIG HILL was the overpass where the county road went up and over the Interstate.

    Another Florida Hill story:

    I spent three months with my Dad in Cape Coral Florida a couple years ago - I stopped in the local bike shop to ask where I could ride to get some uphill work so I would not suffer to much when I got back to Puget Sound.

    The shop said they do a local hill climb and gave me the address - it turned out to be the Cape Coral bridge over the Caloosahatchee River - the road rises from 5' to 65' in a 1/2 mile - that was the local hill climb!

    A final Florida Hill story:

    My folks live not to far from a scenic rural road called "Tuckers Grade" - I had to try riding that - the roads with "Grade" in them in Puget Sound of SoCal always seemed to be a challenge for me. "Tuckers Grade" climbs 10 feet in 10 miles!

    Local Perspective is what counts

  5. #30
    Senior Member mgw189's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldfinch View Post
    I apparently have yet to do any "real" hilly rides.
    I am with you LOL...

  6. #31
    Senior Member 1855Cru's Avatar
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    Tested my classifications on tonight's ride and whaddya know, right on the money. 27 miles ride, 868 ft climbing (321 ft/10 miles), 19.9mph avg. Fits my flat to rolling class to a tee
    http://www.ablokeandabike.blogspot.com

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  7. #32
    Bulky Bullet Sayre Kulp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chefisaac View Post
    sayre: +1 I am in Orlando now and it is heaven. all flat!
    It sure is! Why do you think I'm moving that way? Everyone thinks it's for a job, house, etc.

    They don't know it's actually so I can avoid riding uphill! Bwa, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!
    "Obstacles don't like me very much. I make them look bad."

  8. #33
    Bulky Bullet Sayre Kulp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
    If you pass a jogger, and you worry about staying ahead of him, it's hilly.
    This happened last Thursday. On the group ride, we passed a jogger who was making pretty good time. Then we started the first of several long, steep climbs. He passed us - ALL of us - on the way up the hill. I can honestly say that was a first for me. Now to be fair, he was doing about 11 mph, which is darn fast on foot.
    "Obstacles don't like me very much. I make them look bad."

  9. #34
    Senior Member rideorglide's Avatar
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    If you have to drop down to those last two or three cogs and spin (assuming you are already in whatever smaller ring you have) then it's hilly for you.
    http://theoutsideinsideout.blogspot.com/

  10. #35
    Senior Member downtube42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dahut View Post
    Im not motivated enough for all that charting and data collecting and so on. I'm just a guy on a bike.
    But, if Im gaggin for air in the lowest gear and the road ahead looms OVER my head, I call that "hilly."
    About half of my riding is that type.

    The other half is the descents.
    what he said
    What is bicycle touring?
    "So I kept looking and eventually found that a spark plug had same threads. So I cycled next two days until I got to Jackson, MS with a spark plug instead of right pedal." - mev

  11. #36
    don't try this at home. rm -rf's Avatar
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    Remember, for an extra hilly 100 feet per mile route, it would include a similar amount of descending. So the average climbing grade would be closer to 200 feet per mile or almost 4%. And a hilly route almost never has a steady grade, there's always steeper and shallower parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post
    I've been agonizing over whether to do this ride this weekend: http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/52001136

    This is the most hills I've ever done, by far. MMR says 1300ft of climbing, but in my experience they are always off by at least half. I predict it's closer to 2500-3000 feet, over 40 miles. It says 3 category 5 climbs. Which scares me. I've only done 3 cat5's ever so far, each on separate rides. Each one exhausted me to a point where I could hardly continue. I end up doing them in my lowest gear (22/27), at a cadence of about 50, because I simply cannot spin any faster. I drove the course already... these hills look even bigger than the previous cat5's I've done.

    Sigh.
    It's hard to get any useful climb information from MapMyRide. They tend to average out climbs, especially on longer routes, and they don't count any elevation gain under 10 meters.

    I loaded the hills part of your route into ridewithgps here. You can hover over the elevation graph to see grades at each point in the ride, or drag a section of the route to get statistics just for that section.

    But even ridewithgps can't be perfectly accurate on steeper climbs. It has to estimate the exact elevation of the road, based on known elevation points near the road. If those points are on the side of a hill, the road elevation can be off enough to affect the grade calculation. Sometimes ridewithgps will show 4%, 9%, 6%, 7% within a very short distance, even when the road has a steady grade there.

    Just for this 22 mile section, it calculated 1500 feet of climbing. That counts every little bump in the road, and very shallow "false flat" climbs, too. It would match up pretty close to a Garmin GPS recording of the ride.

    The big climb at the 11 mile mark is 325 feet in about .95 mile, much of it between 8% and 10% grade. That's pretty steep. The other grades look reasonable.
    Last edited by rm -rf; 09-27-11 at 09:06 PM.

  12. #37
    Senior Member Seattle Forrest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post
    Another Florida Hill story:

    I spent three months with my Dad in Cape Coral Florida a couple years ago - I stopped in the local bike shop to ask where I could ride to get some uphill work so I would not suffer to much when I got back to Puget Sound.

    The shop said they do a local hill climb and gave me the address - it turned out to be the Cape Coral bridge over the Caloosahatchee River - the road rises from 5' to 65' in a 1/2 mile - that was the local hill climb!
    The highest point in the state of Florida is about half the elevation of 35th Ave in West Seattle.
    Don't believe everything you think.

  13. #38
    Senior Member Mithrandir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post
    Remember, for an extra hilly 100 feet per mile route, it would include a similar amount of descending. So the average climbing grade would be closer to 200 feet per mile or almost 4%. And a hilly route almost never has a steady grade, there's always steeper and shallower parts.



    It's hard to get any useful climb information from MapMyRide. They tend to average out climbs, especially on longer routes, and they don't count any elevation gain under 10 meters.

    I loaded the hills part of your route into ridewithgps here. You can hover over the elevation graph to see grades at each point in the ride, or drag a section of the route to get statistics just for that section.

    But even ridewithgps can't be perfectly accurate on steeper climbs. It has to estimate the exact elevation of the road, based on known elevation points near the road. If those points are on the side of a hill, the road elevation can be off enough to affect the grade calculation. Sometimes ridewithgps will show 4%, 9%, 6%, 7% within a very short distance, even when the road has a steady grade there.

    Just for this 22 mile section, it calculated 1500 feet of climbing. That counts every little bump in the road, and very shallow "false flat" climbs, too. It would match up pretty close to a Garmin GPS recording of the ride.

    The big climb at the 11 mile mark is 325 feet in about .95 mile, much of it between 8% and 10% grade. That's pretty steep. The other grades look reasonable.
    Yeah. I drove the route yesterday to get my bearings. I've driven down those roads many times before, but never with an eye for how it would feel while cycling, so I wanted to get a physical look at least once. The curvy climb is gigantic. You can tell they cut into the hillside with the S curve simply so they could go up the hill with a smaller grade. Here's the google street view of it:

    http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=4...,43.46,,0,9.09

    Move forward along the road to get an idea of how long/steep it is. The images still don't do it any justice.

    I'm still going to try it. I may have to stop several times up the hill, but I will do it. I made the decision this morning when I was going up a hill on my commute in 32/12, a full 7 gears higher than I could do it a few months back (32/23). So if I can handle smaller hills in a "high" gear now with no issues, hopefully the gigantic ones won't be impossible. Though for next year I'm definitely going to change out my gearing and go for something lower than 22/27... thinking 22/34.

  14. #39
    Senior Member Seattle Forrest's Avatar
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    It's easier if you climb during the flood tide. When the moon is directly overhead, you get a gravitational boost of about 1.1 10^−7 g.
    Don't believe everything you think.

  15. #40
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    A Hilly Route?

    Thanks for the link to ridewithgps.com!

    How do I show a map from there I wonder? Here is the 18 mile ride I did Saturday in 1hr20m.

    Turkey Creek Bombing Run
    Detailed view (Edit)
    Export: (gpx track) (tcx) (kml)
    Cycling
    18.1 miles, +1356 feet
    Created on Sep 29, 11

    Mapmyride... made it seem like this was a much flatter route than it really is. When I figure out how to post a link I will. I called it Bombing run because there is one drop on Turkey Creek where I hit 45+ MPH on my Schwinn Voyageur which I have taken to calling the Blue Bomber.
    RUSA #8269

  16. #41
    Senior Member 1855Cru's Avatar
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    http://www.ablokeandabike.blogspot.com

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  17. #42
    Member Perigee's Avatar
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    Along the east coast of Florida we don't rate rides by climbs but by wind speed and direction. You will fight a headwind in the morning riding west and a stronger headwind in the afternoon returning home. Ride along the coast and the cross winds will knock you down.

  18. #43
    Senior Member zencalm's Avatar
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    For me, if I feel the lactic acid flowing, it is most likely a hill. The lactic acid may be less than it once was, because of training, but if I feel it....hill it is!

    (Of course, we all probably define it differently based on location and experience.)
    The only way to know for sure is to practice, and if you practice enough, it will be obtainable. - cranky velocist

  19. #44
    Junior Member AmericanMag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perigee View Post
    Along the east coast of Florida we don't rate rides by climbs but by wind speed and direction. You will fight a headwind in the morning riding west and a stronger headwind in the afternoon returning home. Ride along the coast and the cross winds will knock you down.
    That was exactly how the ride was this morning! Took more out of me due to the wind than anything else. But then again, I am a total newb!

  20. #45
    A Mountaineering thing Hillbasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perigee View Post
    Along the east coast of Florida we don't rate rides by climbs but by wind speed and direction. You will fight a headwind in the morning riding west and a stronger headwind in the afternoon returning home. Ride along the coast and the cross winds will knock you down.
    You have got to be kidding.

  21. #46
    Senior Member irwin7638's Avatar
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    A"hilly" ride is one that makes me think about the hills. I see lots of hilly rides in March and April, not too many in October and November.

    Marc
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    "I can still do everything I used to, but now I'm mature enough to take a nap without being told." - Me

    "You don't deteriorate from age,you age from deterioration" --Joe Weider

  22. #47
    Bulky Bullet Sayre Kulp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillbasher View Post
    You have got to be kidding.
    Actually, after riding a bit in Florida in February and again in May, I'm inclined to agree. Florida is flat - this much is true. But that also means no mountains to block wind - ESPECIALLY out on the coast!
    "Obstacles don't like me very much. I make them look bad."

  23. #48
    Bulky Bullet Sayre Kulp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perigee View Post
    Along the east coast of Florida we don't rate rides by climbs but by wind speed and direction. You will fight a headwind in the morning riding west and a stronger headwind in the afternoon returning home. Ride along the coast and the cross winds will knock you down.
    By the way - you aren't by any chance the gent who was racing his homebuilt recumbents at the HPRA events back in February, are you? I remember a guy (Pete I think) racing a homebuilt bike and talking about another build project. The two bikes were named Perigee and Apogee.
    "Obstacles don't like me very much. I make them look bad."

  24. #49
    A Mountaineering thing Hillbasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perigee View Post
    Along the east coast of Florida we don't rate rides by climbs but by wind speed and direction. You will fight a headwind in the morning riding west and a stronger headwind in the afternoon returning home. Ride along the coast and the cross winds will knock you down.
    I will put our 22 mile climb with 4500+ feet of gain against your headwind, and see which is a harder ride. LOL. Hey, I am just kidding around anyway, as you can't help it that the highest point in your state is what, 350 feet above sea level? Come try our mountain rides which at certain times of the year, (when the Santa Ana winds are blowing), have elevation gain and 35 plus MPH winds. Now that is a fun ride, NOT.
    July 29, 2010 GMR Plus 4.5 miles 053.jpgclick pic

  25. #50
    Senior Member TacomaSailor's Avatar
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    Headwinds -vs- Hills

    I guess I am used to hills and they don't bother me. I know that eventually they will end.

    Riding in Florida (SW coast - Cape Coral - Pine Island - Alva - Sanibel) in the winter was depressing at times due to the wind. I'd ride 25 - 30 miles in almost a straight line with the 15 - 20 mph wind at my back. I'd reach the end of the island and then have to turn around and face 25 miles dead into the wind.

    The Florida winter wind, unlike most hills, NEVER gives you a break. It gets stronger but never much weaker. The gusts are painful, 'kinda like a 1/4 mile steeper pitch, but then the average is still there. It is never possible to relax and rest just a little with the relentless wind.

    I'd much rather ride long hills than flat land into a 20 mph head wind.

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