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  1. #26
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisan View Post
    This is where I start to make excuses about being a flatlander right?
    LOL
    I find Hillbasher's Gramin to be slightly different from the numbers I get from MMR. 2200 vs 2250 for example.

    Last year I posted a graph from MMR and another rider (RALLISON) stated that MMR was overshooting. He did several long climbs in Socal and did lots of comparisons with his Garmin to back his claims. I use it as a rough estimate but to think you double the elevation, nah!

    This is his blog and yes, he is a clyde in this forum (although I haven't seen him post for some time)

    http://www.toughascent.com/blog/

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    No it's not! Our usual climb GMR is 2200 feet in 8 miles. 2250 by those that use Garmins riding along side of me. Could be why some are failing on rides with any kind of elevation gain. Maybe they think they are training on 2000 feet when it's actually only 1000.
    Hey Beanz...how long does a climb like that - 8 miles, 2200 feet - take you to do? We have no long sustained climbs like that in my immediate area, so I have no idea.

  3. #28
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
    Hey Beanz...how long does a climb like that - 8 miles, 2200 feet - take you to do? We have no long sustained climbs like that in my immediate area, so I have no idea.
    Last time I timed myself 1:01....Gina does it in about 1:30, Alyce about the same. 6% average grade.

    2 Athena super climbers.

    FTR, Alyce is a recreational fun cyclist that really struggled one a 1/2 mile climb (5%). She asked about GMR so we invited her up. I figured she'd quit after a mile or two. She completed the 8 mile climb the first time up. The next time she added another 6 miles of slightly gentler climbing (3100 ft in 14 miles). She's done it maybe 6 times now in a period of 2 months. Now she laughs a the 1/2 mile climb on which she used to struggle.

    I've asked several men to go for the ride, all have denied. But Alyce who is at a larger disadvantage than every man I've invited is the only one to accept.

    What's funny is that the only thing one has to lose is pride but who cares. I do think that if Neil lived in the area, I'd be able to talk him up. He's at a disdvantage but he's got balls!



    Last edited by Mr. Beanz; 10-03-11 at 09:06 PM.

  4. #29
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    I also have a garmin and have noticed that it's always high on the elevation gain. There is an option on garmin connect to enable elevation corrections after you upload the data. When you do that, the numbers do get close to other sources like MMR, and Bikeroutetoaster. The one exception to this was last week in the blueridge, where my garmin data was almost spot on without the corrections.

    I was just getting worried when I see people saying MMR is half of actual gains. I'm fairly new to using MMR and since it has so far been close to my corrected garmin data I assumed the ride we had planned would be close to the planned 3600 ft of gain. So if we would have had twice as much climbing ahead of us as I advertised I might have wanted to revisit the plans with my partners in crime so that they dont throw me off the side of a mountain.

  5. #30
    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
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    Don't overthink it. Ride a bunch. To get good at hills, go ride hills. If you feel like you're doing leg-press exercises going up the hills, then you need lower gearing, whether that's a compact or triple or whatever it takes. Lose weight. Change what you eat. Ride some more.

    My philosophy is you should never walk a hill, but it's okay to ride 2 mph and stop and rest 8 times. Just a minute of rest can make a big difference in how you feel.

    On a charity ride, check if they have a shut-off time when the course closes. If they do, and you're within that time, fine, even if you're the last one out there. I did a hilly 100k on my Worksman cruiser. I think I was the very last rider in, but the course was still "open", the rest stops were still open, and everyone was real nice. Somebody's got to be last, it doesn't have to be you, but if it is, that's okay too.
    Last edited by StephenH; 10-03-11 at 09:06 PM.
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  6. #31
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    I really don't recommend trying to stop and rest on a 15% or more grade with any intent to start again. The ground angle is steep enough that you can't necessarily rest over the top tube, and you can't necessarily get on and off the bike safely. The bike handling skills required to stop and rest on that kind of grade are pretty badass.

    There is no shame in walking the bike. None. If you walk up and down the hill regularly, biking does get easier.

    There is plenty of shame in not trying hills, coz if you don't try, you won't get stronger. And there is nothing like a good hill for developing speed.

  7. #32
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torrilin View Post
    There is plenty of shame in not trying hills, coz if you don't try, you won't get stronger.
    Trying but failing some

    Not trying.

  8. #33
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    What's funny is that the only thing one has to lose is pride but who cares. I do think that if Neil lived in the area, I'd be able to talk him up. He's at a disdvantage but he's got balls!
    Ask Homeyba to tell you how well I handled hills in Ohio. You might rethink that.

  9. #34
    Senior Member magohn's Avatar
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    Congrats OP - nice job and a nice accomplishment.

    However, I must disagree with the idea of "ignoring data" such as heart rate etc. I have ridden two back-to-back century weekends and I FIRMLY believe that what got me to the finish line was monitoring my heart rate. For both weekends, I was close to 290lbs and so for me it was crucial to keep an eye on my HR and not to peg into the red too soon for too long on the rolling hills.
    The HR on the Garmin has taught me how to climb hills. I know exactly when I am pushing too much on a hill and dropping back on my effort allows me to keep climbing. I may not be the fastest but I can climb 7-9% grade hills at 6mph (I know, slow) all day and be none the worst for wear. Keeping my HR in the zone is crucial. Over the last 18 months I have ignored the HR a few times and pushed too hard on a hill - the result being that I am wiped-out for the rest of the ride.

  10. #35
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil_B View Post
    Ask Homeyba to tell you how well I handled hills in Ohio. You might rethink that.
    Ask Tombunn (Socal Clyde member) how he failed the first time up GMR then kicked arse on our second try with some coaching.

    52 yo, ( older than Homey) heart meds (not as healthy as Homey) and heavier than Homey, but I'd place my money on Tom now. (kidding, don't be hurt Homey)

    Tom didn't make it his first 220 feet. More guts and glory, few month later he did the entire 5000 to the village (along with Gina).

    Tom in the blue next to Gina.

    I think you'd do it Neil, with a little Beanz and Hillbasher coaching!



    First time for Tom and Gina to the village (5000 feet). Gina beat Tom to the shack on his first try. This day, he stomped Gina to the village.

    BTW, I must add, 15 seconds into the video, Tom was so tickled and mentioned that was his first time ever passing someone on a climb. The rider in that shot was not part of our group and started ahead of us.

    Last edited by Mr. Beanz; 10-03-11 at 10:13 PM.

  11. #36
    Senior Member ahultin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    r a century ride to benefit MS. I think it's fairly flat as it just goes up the coastline; hilliness is limited if you can never get too far above sea level.
    Thank you.
    I had actually looked into this as I have a friend riding it but they advertise as 6100ft of elevation for the century. It is along the coast until you get to Oceanside then treks through the hills of north SD county. Not quite ready for that

  12. #37
    Senior Member ahultin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCallum View Post
    looking at the two elevation charts; I must ask did you all ride the same route mapmyride had? I think not or Mapmyride needs better info!!!!

    Looking at jeepseahawks GPS YOU DID GOOD! Keep up the training and you will make the 100 next time!!
    No the route changed substantially. There where many people at lunch discussing that fact and that was before we hit the real pain

  13. #38
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahultin View Post
    Thank you.
    I had actually looked into this as I have a friend riding it but they advertise as 6100ft of elevation for the century. It is along the coast until you get to Oceanside then treks through the hills of north SD county. Not quite ready for that

    Tour De Palm springs is about as flat as it gets. Of course, like any ride, it has some climbing (6 mile with 700 ft 4% grade). Easy if you do some hill work, killer if you don't. Rolling hills on Dillon Rd, again, easy if you do the work, killer if you dont.

    After that it's too flat. I got bored but again, some complained about the tough climbing on the second half.

    Good thing is there are 10,000+ riders so it is quite the fashion show. If you're last on this ride, take up jogging. (kidding) But there are many many riders doing an easier pace.

  14. #39
    Senior Member ahultin's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Mr. Beanz;13315033 If the OP trains with hills, He'll be doing these average centuries in 6 months.

    Second off, quit fooling yourself, this is not a century for a super climber. It is an average century (as mentioned by a few others in the thread). The OP failed due to the climbing not the distance. If he trains on the climbs, the final 30 will come easily while making the middle of the ride climbs much easier than his first attempt.
    Third off, you do not know what amazing gains a rider makes as far as strength and fitness while climbing because you don't climb. [/QUOTE]

    Yes, my plan is to definitely train on the climbs. To start i am going to double the loop on my normal weekday route.
    http://www.mapmyfitness.com/routes/view/51580166

    I agree it was not a century for a super climber, the route switch however was the killer as I consider myself a below average climber and chose this ride accordingly

    Again training is the plan. I intend to work up my weekend rides to be at least 4000ft of climbing. In this area it is not hard to route for that. Up until the beginning of this summer I avoided hills like the plague. It was only the economy that changed that. It cost me about 2 gallons of diesel to get to where i was riding 3 days a week. At 4 bucks a gallon and with work slow (i am commission only) I decided to HTFU and ride near home instead of driving. It was difficult at first but is getting easier. The real revelation that illustrated your point was when I went back to the river trail for the first time in weeks mid summer and gained over 1 mph from my best, shaving off about 6 minutes. It was then when I realized what I had avoided is what would make me stronger.

  15. #40
    Senior Member ahultin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magohn View Post
    Congrats OP - nice job and a nice accomplishment.

    However, I must disagree with the idea of "ignoring data" such as heart rate etc. I have ridden two back-to-back century weekends and I FIRMLY believe that what got me to the finish line was monitoring my heart rate. For both weekends, I was close to 290lbs and so for me it was crucial to keep an eye on my HR and not to peg into the red too soon for too long on the rolling hills.
    The HR on the Garmin has taught me how to climb hills. I know exactly when I am pushing too much on a hill and dropping back on my effort allows me to keep climbing. I may not be the fastest but I can climb 7-9% grade hills at 6mph (I know, slow) all day and be none the worst for wear. Keeping my HR in the zone is crucial. Over the last 18 months I have ignored the HR a few times and pushed too hard on a hill - the result being that I am wiped-out for the rest of the ride.
    I am definitely considering the HRM as I believe that I went critical too soon not knowing the terrain I was riding and would have been better off taking the first few climbs after lunch at a slower pace to conserve. Initially when I began to feel the end it was heart rate that was stopping me not losing legs. As I got to the last hill it then changed to the legs cramping up.

  16. #41
    [IMG]http://i4.photobucke jeepseahawk's Avatar
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    Damn it Beanz, I was going to use my heart medication excuse for GMR next time you asked. It really isn't about pride with me, it's about me being straight-up scared of GMR.

  17. #42
    Senior Member JimF22003's Avatar
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    hi paisan. I ride Skyline a lot, and know most of it by heart. If you have any questions about specific portions, feel free to ask. The northern section has more climbing than the southern sections, but there are lots of 2-3 mile sections that stay pretty steadily between 5 and 7 percent. It rarely gets any steeper than that, and only for short sections. If you're only planning on 22 miles a day, you shouldn't have any trouble. There are tons over overlooks you can pull off onto to take a "scenic break."

    Quote Originally Posted by paisan View Post
    God I hope not. Me and a few friends are taking a trip to the Skyline Parkway in VA and MMR says day one is 33 miles with 3600 ft of climbing, day two is 22 miles with 2300 ft of climbing. If those numbers are that far off it's gonna be alot harder weekend than I originally thought.
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  18. #43
    Senior Member Mithrandir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    First off, no it did not work for you as you continue to plan your centuries with little climbing as possible. You get better by working on your weakness, not your strengths. Plus the message here is that you don't "climb that much" until you aim toward "climbing that much". At the rate you are going, you will be doing 4000 feet centuries in 4 years. If the OP trains with hills, He'll be doing these average centuries in 6 months.

    Second off, quit fooling yourself, this is not a century for a super climber. It is an average century (as mentioned by a few others in the thread). The OP failed due to the climbing not the distance. If he trains on the climbs, the final 30 will come easily while making the middle of the ride climbs much easier than his first attempt. If you had enough experience on rides, you'd see that the riders that make these average rides look average, are riders that do some hill work. When you see riders fail on these average rides, it's because they continue to hide from the hills.


    Third off, you do not know what amazing gains a rider makes as far as strength and fitness while climbing because you don't climb. If I had listened to every rider that had your attitude toward climbing when I failed at my first climb, I'd still be at home planning centuries around my living room. It's a choice, you do what you need to do to complete the ride or you lie to yourself in an attempt to justify your lack of ability. Believe me, it doesn't take a super climber to complete an average 3000-4000 ft century.
    First off, I have not planned another century yet, so I have no idea what you're talking about. But thanks for insulting me for absolutely no reason.

    If you had payed any attention to me whatsoever, then you would have realised that my next non-commute ride will have more climbing in it than I've ever done, and I'm alternating going distance then height. It is working for me, thank you very much. Every month I do more and more climbing and I'm getting clearly better at it.

    Secondly I challenge you to try some of your oh-so-magnificent climbing skills whilst carrying an extra 100+ pounds. Seriously I dare you to try doing a 'tiny' 4000 ft climb at 356 pounds, and come back and report how amazingly easy it was. You are the only person on the planet who has criticized me for the hills I do. Every other roadie I meet in real life has told me that they are in awe of me that I'm even attempting them. So go get some dumbells, put them on your bike, and climb. Until then, I don't want to hear another criticism from you.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimF22003 View Post
    hi paisan. I ride Skyline a lot, and know most of it by heart. If you have any questions about specific portions, feel free to ask. The northern section has more climbing than the southern sections, but there are lots of 2-3 mile sections that stay pretty steadily between 5 and 7 percent. It rarely gets any steeper than that, and only for short sections. If you're only planning on 22 miles a day, you shouldn't have any trouble. There are tons over overlooks you can pull off onto to take a "scenic break."
    Jim, Thanks! I've ridden the Blueridge a bunch but the closest I've ever gotten to riding Skyline is the Masanutten Hoo Ha. We were looking for a new challenge for this trip since we just did the Blue ridge a few weeks ago. We went from Sherando Lakes up to Reed's Gap then to Fork Mountain Overlook on that trip.

    For this trip our first day is from the K-mart down in Front Royal to HWY 211. Then we stay at Mathews Arm campsite up top for the night. Day 2 is HWY 211 to Big Meadows. It looks like the biggest obstacle will be that first 6 miles from Front Royal up to Skyline. Once we actually get on top of Skyline the climbs apear to be spread out and not as steep. is that a fair assumption?

  20. #45
    don't try this at home. rm -rf's Avatar
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    Mapmyride always averages out the climbs, and under reports total elevation. I can see why they do that--they want to ignore the 10 or 20 foot rollers--but they also skip parts of climbs this way. A long climb can have a steep section, but they just report the average grade.

    ridewithgps.com will show actual grades and the total elevation will be close to what a Garmin would report. You can hover on the elevation graph to see grades at that point, or drag a section to see total elevation and distance for that climb.

    Someone posted the Perris century on ridewithgps: Perris Century. It shows the section from mile 50 to 68 is all uphill for 19 miles and 2200 feet. That's a long climb if you aren't expecting it! The actual ride doesn't match the official ridewithgps route at all.

    ---------------------
    Like the other posters said, I also like to pace climbs with a heart rate monitor. I know what heart rate I can sustain for a long time, so I try to stay right below that number.
    Last edited by rm -rf; 10-04-11 at 06:33 AM.

  21. #46
    don't try this at home. rm -rf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisan View Post

    For this trip our first day is from the K-mart down in Front Royal to HWY 211. Then we stay at Mathews Arm campsite up top for the night. Day 2 is HWY 211 to Big Meadows. It looks like the biggest obstacle will be that first 6 miles from Front Royal up to Skyline. Once we actually get on top of Skyline the climbs apear to be spread out and not as steep. is that a fair assumption?
    Since you know the route, it'll just take a few minutes to draw it in ridewithgps. Then you can select parts of the elevation graph to get miles, elevation gain, and average grade for each climb.

    On steep slopes, mapping sites have to guess the exact position of the road compared to the known elevation points. So if they are off a few feet, the local grade can be exaggerated. (And they just don't understand tunnels at all--showing a steep climb up over the tunnel ridge!)
    Last edited by rm -rf; 10-04-11 at 06:31 AM.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    No it's not! Our usual climb GMR is 2200 feet in 8 miles. 2250 by those that use Garmins riding along side of me. Could be why some are failing on rides with any kind of elevation gain. Maybe they think they are training on 2000 feet when it's actually only 1000.
    You got a good point Mr. Beanz. If I use the MyTracks data it says 1,800ft and I feel like I did a decent ride. MMR says 600ft and that doesn't sound as good to me. However, if I think of it as 600ft instead of 1,800ft then when I do an organized ride that says it is 8,000ft of elevation in 130 miles then that route ought to feel more like 4,000ft to me

    BTW, here is the route I did yesterday using RideWithGPS (http://ridewithgps.com/trips/411107). RWGPS list the elevation gain as 1,600ft. RWGPS assumed that the route went Hwy 74 instead of Lawrence Rd. The route actually should go down Lawrence Rd which has more rolling hills, more scenery, and more safety than riding Hwy74.

    If any of you other Clydes or cyclist are ever in West Central Georgia and want to ride in the scenic Pine Mountain Valley foothills, let me know. I still have some climbs not far from the house that I working towards being able to climb. I need to map those and see what the different programs say.

    OP, I agree with everyone on here that says find hills and climb them. By not shying away from my little bumps around the house, I have learned alot about climbing and I am more confident when it comes to riding an unfamiliar route. When I first started, the 39x28 on my old Schwinn World Tourist seemed like it was WAY to high a gear for climbing. I did the 25 miler yesterday on the SWT and only once after the 21 mile mark did I wish for a slightly lower gear but then again I have also learned to stand in order to get up a hill. BTW, I am still not fast but I learned a valuable lesson Friday night after a flat on my Voyageur 7; cycling is A LOT faster than walking even at 6mph! Hang in there, you'll drop the weight and you'll be dropping other riders going uphill in no time!
    Last edited by DaHaMac; 10-04-11 at 07:58 AM. Reason: Added notes about correction to map
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahultin View Post
    I am definitely considering the HRM as I believe that I went critical too soon not knowing the terrain I was riding and would have been better off taking the first few climbs after lunch at a slower pace to conserve. Initially when I began to feel the end it was heart rate that was stopping me not losing legs. As I got to the last hill it then changed to the legs cramping up.
    This is a lot of why I don't worry if someone walks. Walking uses your muscles differently. Walking up a big hill is less effort than riding up it on a bike. It is still plenty of effort, and it is easy to end up dripping sweat and panting for breath... but if you're in a state where that's what you can do... better to keep on trying. If the hill is that hard for you, walking up it is far better than not trying.

    Your body will tell you if your heart rate is too much. Really. Trust it. There is a big difference between "I have no energy somehow and am crampy" and a too high heart rate, and after you've felt a too high heart rate a few times, you won't mistake them. The nausea, vomiting, and feeling like the whole world is shaking is unmistakable. Also the world going black around the edges.

  24. #49
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post
    First off, I have not planned another century yet, so I have no idea what you're talking about. But thanks for insulting me for absolutely no reason.

    If you had payed any attention to me whatsoever, then you would have realised that my next non-commute ride will have more climbing in it than I've ever done, and I'm alternating going distance then height. It is working for me, thank you very much. Every month I do more and more climbing and I'm getting clearly better at it.

    Secondly I challenge you to try some of your oh-so-magnificent climbing skills whilst carrying an extra 100+ pounds. Seriously I dare you to try doing a 'tiny' 4000 ft climb at 356 pounds, and come back and report how amazingly easy it was. You are the only person on the planet who has criticized me for the hills I do. Every other roadie I meet in real life has told me that they are in awe of me that I'm even attempting them. So go get some dumbells, put them on your bike, and climb. Until then, I don't want to hear another criticism from you.
    Will you take it from me then? Mr. Beanz is correct. The biggest improvement in my riding came when I no longer feared climbing. I'm not very good at it, and may never be, but I'll do it.

    Oh, and Sayre Kulp was riding up Reading's Mount Penn when he was close to your weight - and riding a 70 pound trike. Photo from the observation platform at the Pagoda.


  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    Trying but failing some

    Not trying.
    There are times to back off some. I'm working on getting back all my ability after a serious knee sprain. That really affected my climbing ability, since my injured leg lost a full inch in diameter while I was recovering. The fat was still there. The muscle wasn't. And for the first two YEARS after the injury, a lot of climbing situations caused pain in the injured joint. It was frustrating, painful and really hard to deal with. I had to learn to listen to my body and back off far earlier than I like.

    These days, my legs are the same size again. And it is rare for me to have pain when climbing, whether it is stairs or hills on a bike.

    Even so, part of how I got here was to keep trying things. Turns out that stairs, squats, and lots of bike pedaling in very low gears were all very good for my recovery. Walking too, since that would cause joint pain with far less distance, and it forced me to use a wider variety of leg muscles. Ballet even helped. I tried a lot of different things, and have done a lot that I wouldn't have considered 5 years ago... because I wanted my knee to work like normal. And normal means walking up stairs, and riding my bike up hills.

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