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  1. #1
    Senior Member magohn's Avatar
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    Indoor Trainer - Garmin 705 - Display MPH When Stationary - Possible?

    Hi all,

    Im setting up an indoor training area for when the ice eventually comes to the PNW. However, I want to record my MPH - AVG SPD - DISTANCE etc that I covered "virtually" while training. The bike has the speed/cadence module and the cadence works fine but I cant get the MPH to budge from '0'. Im assuming thats because its using GPS to actually track the MPH and Im not moving. Im sure I read someplace that you can set the 705 to use the speed/cadence sensor to record MPH as well but I cant find the setting. That would probably work.

    Anybody got any ideas?


    P.S. Ive been augmenting my riding with the indoor trainer for the last week. I sweat like a monkey on the thing and I am 2lb down from last week! Probably because there's no coasting on the trainer...

  2. #2
    Watching and waiting. jethro56's Avatar
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    I don't have that model but I have some suggestions. First under menu > settings > system > GPS Mode > Off If this doesn't work then Check GSC 10 magnet alignment and probe distance. Probe 1/8 " away and magnet centered at end of probe. Push GSC 10 reset button it should flash the first 60 revs. Adjust until it does. It this still doesn't work find speed sensor on/off menu item and turn it on again. This will pair the device again. If all fails call Garmin they'll help troubleshoot. I've adjusted several and usually the cable ties aren't tight enough holding the GSC 10 in place. They have to really be tight.

  3. #3
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    Agree with jethro56: turn GPS off when using the trainer and make sure the GSC-10 speed/cadence sensor is properly installed. It's been a while since I used my Edge 705 on a trainer, but as I recall turning the GPS off is the only real trick to making it work...

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    this should be obvious but make sure your sensor is on your rear wheel.

  5. #5
    Senior Member magohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jethro56 View Post
    I don't have that model but I have some suggestions. First under menu > settings > system > GPS Mode > Off If this doesn't work then Check GSC 10 magnet alignment and probe distance. Probe 1/8 " away and magnet centered at end of probe. Push GSC 10 reset button it should flash the first 60 revs. Adjust until it does. It this still doesn't work find speed sensor on/off menu item and turn it on again. This will pair the device again. If all fails call Garmin they'll help troubleshoot. I've adjusted several and usually the cable ties aren't tight enough holding the GSC 10 in place. They have to really be tight.
    Thanks guys - yes I have that setting. I will give it a try tonight and report back. I do have the speed/cadence system on the rear wheel and hooked up correctly. The cadence read-out works fine.
    Do you guys know if its possible to have the a secondary bike profile setup where the GPS is turned off and the main bike profile setup with GPS turned on? Or is the GPS on/off a global setting that applies to all profiles? Then it would be nice to simply switch bike profiles depending on if Im riding outside or on the trainer.

    THANKS for your help so far!

  6. #6
    Senior Member magohn's Avatar
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    ha!

    You guys were exactly right! Though my cadence was reporting correctly, the magnet for the speed pick-up was about 1/2" too far apart from the sensor. I readjusted and the mph/distance etc instantly came to life. No need to switch off the GPS for me as I dont mind the gps running when Im riding as long as I get the mph/distance stats etc.

    THANKS!

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    You do realize the "MPH" and "distance" readings you get off any trainer are totally meaningless, right?

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    Senior Member Seve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achoo View Post
    You do realize the "MPH" and "distance" readings you get off any trainer are totally meaningless, right?
    "totally meaningless"

    Why is that ?

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    Senior Member magohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seve View Post
    "totally meaningless"

    Why is that ?
    Exactly - why?

    With all variables being the same - bike, resistance, and time, why can I not use the results collections as "goals" for the next identical session. It would be like saying that any riding along a "bike path" is meaningless as there are no hills, stop-lights and traffic.

    Sweat is sweat - I'll take it

  10. #10
    Senior Member Seve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magohn View Post
    Exactly - why?

    With all variables being the same - bike, resistance, and time, why can I not use the results collections as "goals" for the next identical session. It would be like saying that any riding along a "bike path" is meaningless as there are no hills, stop-lights and traffic.

    Sweat is sweat - I'll take it
    Your efforts are not meaningless by any rational, empirical or other measure.

    Please, don't accept my response or any ensuing anecdotal comments as empirical evidence.

    Strap on a heart monitor should you have any apprehensions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seve View Post
    "totally meaningless"

    Why is that ?
    I suspect achoo is referring to the fact that most trainers are easier to pedal than a bike on a real-world road. So your speed and distance numbers tend to be higher on the trainer than they would on a real-world ride. You can compare one trainer ride to the next, but it would be a mistake to try to compare trainer rides to real-world rides. For best results, you'd ignore the speed and distance information while riding on the trainer and instead focus on heart rate, power output (if you have a power meter) and the duration of exercise.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Seve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    I suspect achoo is referring to the fact that most trainers are easier to pedal than a bike on a real-world road. So your speed and distance numbers tend to be higher on the trainer than they would on a real-world ride. You can compare one trainer ride to the next, but it would be a mistake to try to compare trainer rides to real-world rides. For best results, you'd ignore the speed and distance information while riding on the trainer and instead focus on heart rate, power output (if you have a power meter) and the duration of exercise.
    There is no such thing as "" to the fact that most trainers are easier to pedal than a bike on a real-world road"".

    You may believe that, however, I challenge you to present empirical data to support that statement.

    After all, facts should be readily available for independent 3rd party dispassionate verification. Thank you for your cooperation in the pursuit of academic knowledge.

  13. #13
    Watching and waiting. jethro56's Avatar
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    I know time slows down on a trainer. It's like the opposite of traveling very fast. If you spend 1 hour on a trainer. The rest of the world has only aged 12.376 minutes.

  14. #14
    Slow mtrider05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seve View Post
    There is no such thing as "" to the fact that most trainers are easier to pedal than a bike on a real-world road"".

    You may believe that, however, I challenge you to present empirical data to support that statement.

    After all, facts should be readily available for independent 3rd party dispassionate verification. Thank you for your cooperation in the pursuit of academic knowledge.
    Kurt Kinetic fluid trainers are calibrated so that speed correlates to power, so MPH is not useless in this case.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Seve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtrider05 View Post
    Kurt Kinetic fluid trainers are calibrated so that speed correlates to power, so MPH is not useless in this case.
    I have an Kurt Kinetic and yes, it can beat you up any way you want it to.

    My point is, a trainer is what you make of it.

    I apologize if I came across as caustic,

  16. #16
    Senior Member Seve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jethro56 View Post
    I know time slows down on a trainer. It's like the opposite of traveling very fast. If you spend 1 hour on a trainer. The rest of the world has only aged 12.376 minutes.
    I floated that argument with the IRS when I lived in Georgia ....

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seve View Post
    There is no such thing as "" to the fact that most trainers are easier to pedal than a bike on a real-world road"".

    You may believe that, however, I challenge you to present empirical data to support that statement.
    Tell me: how many indoor trainers accurately simulate the wind resistance felt by a Clyde when riding at speed? My guess is: few or none.

    Kurt Kinetic is probably one of the better ones. Even their own data shows that their Cyclone wind trainer requires less power to maintain a given speed than either their Kinetic fluid trainer or a real bicycle. The data and graphs on the third page of the PDF are particularly informative: if you're using their Cyclone wind trainer, it looks like you'll be riding 2mph faster indoors than you would outdoors!

    What happens if you weigh more than the 165lb rider the Kurt trainers are calibrated for, though? Do the trainers generate a slower speed for a given power output, to simulate the increased air resistance that a larger rider will feel during an outside ride? Nope! If you're outputting 258w, the Kurt Kinetic is going to be spinning at 20mph. If you play with the Kreuzotter equations, you'll see that a 200lb rider should be seeing 18.7mph on the speedo and a 250lb rider should see 17.3mph.

    All of this dovetails pretty nicely with my own experience: it's virtually impossible for me to maintain the speeds I see on the trainer when I'm riding my bike outside. Maybe if I ever get down to 165lbs the number will match up. Until then, I don't bother comparing the speeds from the trainer with speeds on the road...

  18. #18
    Senior Member Seve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    Tell me: how many indoor trainers accurately simulate the wind resistance felt by a Clyde when riding at speed? My guess is: few or none.

    Kurt Kinetic is probably one of the better ones. Even their own data shows that their Cyclone wind trainer requires less power to maintain a given speed than either their Kinetic fluid trainer or a real bicycle. The data and graphs on the third page of the PDF are particularly informative: if you're using their Cyclone wind trainer, it looks like you'll be riding 2mph faster indoors than you would outdoors!

    What happens if you weigh more than the 165lb rider the Kurt trainers are calibrated for, though? Do the trainers generate a slower speed for a given power output, to simulate the increased air resistance that a larger rider will feel during an outside ride? Nope! If you're outputting 258w, the Kurt Kinetic is going to be spinning at 20mph. If you play with the Kreuzotter equations, you'll see that a 200lb rider should be seeing 18.7mph on the speedo and a 250lb rider should see 17.3mph.

    All of this dovetails pretty nicely with my own experience: it's virtually impossible for me to maintain the speeds I see on the trainer when I'm riding my bike outside. Maybe if I ever get down to 165lbs the number will match up. Until then, I don't bother comparing the speeds from the trainer with speeds on the road...
    Your anecdotal experiences are just that, anecdotal.

    I'm not attempting to pull your ideological chain, rather, I am only trying to illuminate misconceptions for others.

    Even the dullest of us recognizes that a trainer is not the equivalent of a road bicycle.

    You, I or anyone else, can easily simulate a road riding experience on a Kurt Kinetic trainer. Wind, hills or even rain if you are up for it.

    I don't understand why you think that you, and your experiences are the sole benchmark for the the human race?

  19. #19
    Senior Member magohn's Avatar
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    I agree 101% that real-world and trainer scenarios are very different. I want the MPH/Distance to record so that next run on the TRAINER I have a goal to try and beat. Ive ridden enough road miles at 280lbs to know that sitting on a trainer in a garage is very different to daily climbing the 2.5 mile - 7% grade hill that my house sits atop of.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seve View Post
    Your anecdotal experiences are just that, anecdotal.
    Yep. Which is why I provided the science necessary to support my claims... as you requested. If you think the science is inaccurate, by all means: point out the inaccuracies!

    Even the dullest of us recognizes that a trainer is not the equivalent of a road bicycle.
    And yet, you felt the need to disagree with me when I made this very claim! Were you doing that just to be a jackass? Or have you decided your initial position was incorrect?

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