Bike Forums > Going Cheap and Upgrading?
 Register All Albums Elite Membership Forum Rules Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) Looking to lose that spare tire? Ideal weight 200+? Frustrated being a large cyclist in a sport geared for the ultra-light? Learn about the bikes and parts that can take the abuse of a heavier cyclist, how to keep your body going while losing the weight, and get support from others who've been successful.

 10-29-11, 06:39 AM #1 ClydesMoose Senior Member Thread Starter     Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Las Vegas Bikes: 2013 CAAD 8 6 Black/Red Posts: 325 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Going Cheap and Upgrading? I'm going to be Going Road in the next month or so, and I'm trying to figure out what I want. I think I have decided on a Felt F85 in red. However, I'm not so sure about the microshift shifters that come on it. I haven't read very many good reviews of them. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough, but eh. So, if I got that bike, would it make sense to swap the shifters, cassette and RD (I want the 11-32 10sp.) to Apex? Or, would I be better off finding something that came with Apex to begin with? Felt seems to have a good price point and mix of parts. (Plus, I really think its a pretty bike.) Anything else that I've been able to find has been up in the $15-1600 range. Is it possible to order a bike with the parts you want or are you stuck with stuff you don't want, to try to hock on Ebay? How likely are LBS going to be to give you value for "new" components?  10-29-11, 03:47 PM #2 CraigB Starting over Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Indianapolis Bikes: 1990 Trek 1500; 2006 Gary Fisher Marlin; 2011 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 105; 2012 Catrike Trail Posts: 4,081 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) If you want something in between the price of the F85 and the$15-1600 range, you might consider the Z85. It's got a mostly 105 group, including the brifters.
 10-29-11, 06:03 PM #3 Mithrandir Senior Member     Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Buffalo, NY Bikes: 2012 Surly LHT, 1995 GT Outpost Trail Posts: 2,400 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) I'm building my first road bike this month, and I went the "buy nice upfront" route. The lesson I learned from my mountain bike is that if you buy cheap stuff it'll eventually annoy you if you use it enough, and you'll want to upgrade. Ergo, "Buy nice, or buy twice". In the end I wish I had just gone with a straight Deore build upfront. Would have saved more money. Of course, the gamble there is "are you going to use it". The reason I went cheap upfront is because I wasn't sure if I was going to stick with cycling when I first started. So in my mind, it would have been a waste to go Deore at first, because I might have given up, and I would have spent all that money on expensive parts I wasn't going to use. But if you're going to use it, go for the gold! Or, at least... not crap.
10-29-11, 06:23 PM   #4
ClydesMoose
Senior Member

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Bikes: 2013 CAAD 8 6 Black/Red
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by CraigB If you want something in between the price of the F85 and the $15-1600 range, you might consider the Z85. It's got a mostly 105 group, including the brifters. That's the other option, but I prefer the Apex shifting action to the 105, and I'd end up replacing it anyway. 10-30-11, 08:01 PM #5 nfmisso Nigel Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: San Jose, CA Bikes: 1980s and 1990s steel: CyclePro, Nishiki, Schwinn, SR, Trek........ Posts: 2,226 Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 120 Post(s) Quote:  Originally Posted by ClydesMoose ....... How likely are LBS going to be to give you value for "new" components? Figure 50% of WHOLESALE at best. Upgrading is a VERY expensive way to go, unless you are upgrading with older components (used or NOS); and you do your own work.  10-31-11, 07:38 AM #6 BarracksSi Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Washington, DC Bikes: Some bikes. Hell, they're all the same, ain't they? Posts: 13,858 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Don't change anything on the bike. Ride it ALL THE TIME, replacing trips in the car whenever you can. Then, by the time you break something, all the gas money you've saved will allow you replace the broken parts with whatever upgraded versions you want.  10-31-11, 09:05 AM #7 Seattle Forrest Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Seattle, WA Bikes: Posts: 15,223 Mentioned: 3 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2386 Post(s) Talk to the bike shop about whether they can work with you on the shifters, ask them how much they'll give you for the ones that come on the bike.  10-31-11, 10:31 AM #8 Wolfwerx Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Bikes: '74 Schwinn Le Tour (x2), '83 Bianchi, '96 Trek 820, '96 Trek 470, '99 Xmart Squishy Bike, '03 Giant Cypress Posts: 489 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Well, opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one and they usually stink, but my 2 cents on Microshift components are that they are just fine for the money. I wouldn't immediately discount a bike because of them, and I certainly wouldn't "lose" money on them by taking credit from the LBS. Ride them until they wear out, then swap them for the Campy stuff. As an aside: I am happy that there are companies like Microshift out there... competition is good for us consumers. It's awfully hard to justify$300, $400, or more expensive shift levers. 10-31-11, 10:44 AM #9 paisan Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Bikes: Posts: 509 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Quote:  Originally Posted by Wolfwerx ... my 2 cents on Microshift components are that they are just fine for the money. I wouldn't immediately discount a bike because of them, and I certainly wouldn't "lose" money on them by taking credit from the LBS. Ride them until they wear out, then swap them for the Campy stuff. I agree with this. We just built up a bike for Wfournier using microshift and with the exception of the two triggers taking some getting used to they actually perform a lot better than anyone gives them credit for. I think it's a case of a product getting a bad rep from people who haven't actually used the product but have heard about how it sux on the interwebz. Maybe send wfournier a pm and ask him his opinion about how they work.  11-01-11, 05:56 AM #10 ClydesMoose Senior Member Thread Starter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Las Vegas Bikes: 2013 CAAD 8 6 Black/Red Posts: 325 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Fair enough. We have a new LBS opening on my side of town this weekend, and they're a Felt/Giant dealer. I plan to go to their grand opening to see if they'll have any cool deals. Hopefully they'll have an F85 for me to test ride. I just wish I could order a bike with the components I actually want. I really like the idea of the 11-32 cassette, I'm still Too Fat to Climb, and the extra gearing will be nice for me. However, to use that cassette, I'll need the Apex mid cage RD to replace the shimano 105 one that's standard. I'm unsure if the microshift shifters are compatible with the Apex RD that I want, so that means a shifter replacement. Plus, I have SRAM shifters on my MtB and I really like the action they have. Apex feels similar to that. Bah. Last edited by ClydesMoose; 11-01-11 at 06:21 AM. 11-01-11, 06:28 AM #11 wfournier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Belchertown MA Bikes: Posts: 213 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Quote:  Originally Posted by paisan I agree with this. We just built up a bike for Wfournier using microshift and with the exception of the two triggers taking some getting used to they actually perform a lot better than anyone gives them credit for. I think it's a case of a product getting a bad rep from people who haven't actually used the product but have heard about how it sux on the interwebz. Maybe send wfournier a pm and ask him his opinion about how they work. Just saw this, I'm perfectly happy with the Microshift stuff so far. I'm using the Centos stuff (levers and rear derailleur) and it really has worked great. I had initially gotten it with plans of picking up some 105 or ultegra levers down the road but at this point I see no need to. The Centos is one step up from wat it appears comes on the Felt, if you can get a test ride that would probably be the best way to see for yourself. When I was reading about Microshift it seemed the primary complaint was how long the lever throw was and that was mostly with the 8-9 speed shifters. My impression is this has been improved with the 10 speed stuff and it doesn't seem any longer than other shifters to me. Last weekend was my first "longer" ride on this bike and the thought that came mind was how much I was enjoying using these shifters. I want to build up a second bike for riding on gravel/dirt at some point and I plan to use Microshift on that too. I see no reason to spend more money when this works fine. FYI I payed just over$200 shipped brand new for the shifters and front and rear derailleur's (ended up not using the front because my frame plans changed so the clamp wouldn't fit and I found a braze on Ultegra for $15).  11-01-11, 07:55 AM #12 IAmCosmo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Roanoke, VA Bikes: Posts: 554 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) I know plenty of people who intentionally bought lesser expensive bikes with the plans to upgrade the components. I can't tell you of any of them who actually did the upgrades. Sure, we'd all love to have Red or Dura Ace or Super Record, but in all honesty, 105 does the job just fine. Plus, it's so expensive to upgrade compared to the price of buying a bike with better components, so it's rarely worth it. However, if you really want to upgrade, I'd go over to Bikes Direct and buy a bike with the groupset you want. You are paying less than you would be if you bought the groupset by itself, and you get a bonus frame, fork, handlebars, etc. Strip the good stuff off the Bikes Direct bike, put it on your main bike, then put your lesser components on the Bikes Direct bike and now you have a good bike with higher end components, and a bike to beat around on. 11-01-11, 08:07 AM #13 paisan Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Bikes: Posts: 509 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Quote:  Originally Posted by ClydesMoose Fair enough. We have a new LBS opening on my side of town this weekend, and they're a Felt/Giant dealer. I plan to go to their grand opening to see if they'll have any cool deals. Hopefully they'll have an F85 for me to test ride. I just wish I could order a bike with the components I actually want. I really like the idea of the 11-32 cassette, I'm still Too Fat to Climb, and the extra gearing will be nice for me. However, to use that cassette, I'll need the Apex mid cage RD to replace the shimano 105 one that's standard. I'm unsure if the microshift shifters are compatible with the Apex RD that I want, so that means a shifter replacement. Plus, I have SRAM shifters on my MtB and I really like the action they have. Apex feels similar to that. Bah. If I'm reading your post correctly, the bike already comes with microshift brifters and a 105 derailler? If so then it will work with any other road and mtb derailler(including SRAM Apex) as long as it's not a shimano 10spd MTB derailler.  11-01-11, 08:48 AM #14 ClydesMoose Senior Member Thread Starter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Las Vegas Bikes: 2013 CAAD 8 6 Black/Red Posts: 325 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Alright, so the shimano MTB RD is the odd mech out. Gotcha. 11-01-11, 08:52 AM #15 ClydesMoose Senior Member Thread Starter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Las Vegas Bikes: 2013 CAAD 8 6 Black/Red Posts: 325 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Quote:  Originally Posted by IAmCosmo Sure, we'd all love to have Red or Dura Ace or Super Record, but in all honesty, 105 does the job just fine. Plus, it's so expensive to upgrade compared to the price of buying a bike with better components, so it's rarely worth it. Well, I could go after the F75 with 105 brifters, derailleurs, etc. But its$400 more. I figure that it'd be cheaper to get the F85, and just swap out RD, brifters, and cassette and I end up with the components I want.

If I had the  for a Red group, I'd probably be going CF and dropping a lot more cash.

11-01-11, 08:59 AM   #16
paisan
Senior Member

Join Date: Sep 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 509
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ClydesMoose Alright, so the shimano MTB RD is the odd mech out. Gotcha.
Only the 10spd mtb shimano stuff. 8/9 speed mtb deraillers work fine with road shifters.

11-01-11, 09:34 AM   #17
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 15,223
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 2386 Post(s)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ClydesMoose I really like the idea of the 11-32 cassette, I'm still Too Fat to Climb, and the extra gearing will be nice for me. However, to use that cassette, I'll need the Apex mid cage RD to replace the shimano 105 one that's standard.
I had a pretty wide cassette like that, and liked it for about two days, until I started to hate and detest it. Sure, there are lots of different gearing combinations, but each one is pretty far from all of the rest of them. When my cadence or heart rate was a little high, I'd shift into the next gear, and then it would be drastically low ... the cassette rarely had the right gear. Have you used an 11-32 before?

11-01-11, 09:42 AM   #18
ClydesMoose
Senior Member

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Bikes: 2013 CAAD 8 6 Black/Red
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest Have you used an 11-32 before?
I have not. I have a MtB right now with a 7sp 14-28, and a 24/32/42 triple on it. I'm concerned that I won't have enough range with the 50/34 and 11-25.

11-01-11, 10:43 AM   #19
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Bikes: '89 Miyata 1400, '82 nishiski, 84 Torpado super strada (Cino someday)
Posts: 4,326
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ClydesMoose I have not. I have a MtB right now with a 7sp 14-28, and a 24/32/42 triple on it. I'm concerned that I won't have enough range with the 50/34 and 11-25.
have you considered triple instead of compact double?

As for upgrade.... you will spend more money to buy low and upgrade....than you will to bike a bike with the level of components you want.

I like fiddling with bikes.... but even doing things like building a fixie for my son from his grandma's univega frame and recycled crank from my parts bin..... \end up costing as much as buying new....but the reward was a cool project with the kid..... moral is unless you recycle lots of parts you already have..... new is cheaper.
__________________

11-01-11, 10:52 AM   #20
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 15,223
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 2386 Post(s)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by ClydesMoose I have not. I have a MtB right now with a 7sp 14-28, and a 24/32/42 triple on it. I'm concerned that I won't have enough range with the 50/34 and 11-25.
Where are you planning on riding the road bike?

 11-01-11, 11:19 AM #21 ClydesMoose Senior Member Thread Starter     Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Las Vegas Bikes: 2013 CAAD 8 6 Black/Red Posts: 325 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) I have it as a goal to ride the Red Rock loop and River Mountains Trail here in Vegas. Other than those, Mostly on the roads and such. I live in the western end of the valley, and if I go further west, its all up from here. And I have thought of a triple, but most everything comes with a compact double that I've looked at. I saw the SRAM stuff, and thought it'd be ideal.