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Thread: Saddle Woes

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    Seems a bit silly! You've tried a bunch of racing-oriented saddles that are all basically the same shape and now you're planning to give up long rides? I've got news for you: the Romin is just like every other saddle you've been trying; I'd be surprised if you found it substantially different that the saddles you've already tested.

    Again: you may need to try something different than the extremely flat, minimally-padded racing saddles you've been riding. Since you seem to hate all of the same saddles that I hate, I'll make the same suggestion I made before: try a saddle that has a bit of a curve from front to back. You may also want to try saddles with short (or non-existent) noses. I find that long racing saddles usually lead to more soft-tissue pain. I like saddles from WTB, ISM, and Selle SMP. Can't guarantee that any of these brands will work for you, but their shapes are decidedly different from the saddles that have been giving you problems.

    Also, if you haven't had a bike fitting by a professional fitter you might want to give it a try. Saddle position can impact how much weight is resting on the seat (versus the bars or pedals) and where that weight is carried (soft tissue vs sit bones). Again, I can't guarantee that a fitting will make a dramatic difference, but I know that a poor fit can exacerbate saddle problems.
    Making the statement about the Romin, then making the following statement about shape, make taking any advice from you seriously, almost impossible.

    Try looking at a few pictures of the Romin, and the Romin Evo that he purchased, and re-evaluate your statements.

  2. #52
    Senior Member CJ C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    Did you measure the curve on those saddles with a micrometer? They both look flat as a board to me...
    yeah, i probably wont go that far to measure the curve. Eyeballing it is sufficient enough for me. Selle SMP looks like an extreme curve because the nose tilted down. even eyeballing that and taking away the nose it has a curve to it.

    A professional fit shouldn't have to cost $200-275. I think the last one I did was around $150. It took somewhere between 1 and 2 hours. Even though I'd gotten the fit pretty close on my own and the fitter only made minor adjustments, it make a huge difference in comfort.
    Thats the going rate around me at the LBS's I trust, like, and will give my business to. Doing my best to work on fit by myself, but only riding twice a week the tweaking is easy its the testing that takes long. But explaining to the wife that the newish bike and new saddle need a professional bike fitting that cost $200 (along with all other small bike purchases that have been made) after telling her this she may either stab me or at minimum give me a hard kick in the jewels.


    Makes sense: the more weight that's on your hands, the less weight that's on the saddle. Usually, this isn't a long-term cure for saddle/fit problems.
    I would prefer the arms and hand to absorb the road than my underpants army maker. But you are correct that its not a long term fix

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck_O View Post
    Try looking at a few pictures of the Romin, and the Romin Evo that he purchased, and re-evaluate your statements.
    Let's do this! Here's a Romin Pro:



    And here's a Selle SMP Lite 209:



    It sure looks to me like the seating area on the Romin is dead flat, despite the fact that there's a slight droop at the nose and a slight "kick" at the tail. Granted, these features are slightly more pronounced on the Evo models but the seating area still appears darn flat in the Evo pictures I've seen. The seating area on the Lite 209, in contrast, is very U-shaped.

    This doesn't mean that one saddle is better than the other, just that the Romin isn't going to be too much different than the saddles that CJ C has already tried. Maybe those differences will be enough that the Romin is the perfect saddle for him... but I confess I'm a bit skeptical.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    Let's do this! Here's a Romin Pro:



    And here's a Selle SMP Lite 209:



    It sure looks to me like the seating area on the Romin is dead flat, despite the fact that there's a slight droop at the nose and a slight "kick" at the tail. Granted, these features are slightly more pronounced on the Evo models but the seating area still appears darn flat in the Evo pictures I've seen. The seating area on the Lite 209, in contrast, is very U-shaped.

    This doesn't mean that one saddle is better than the other, just that the Romin isn't going to be too much different than the saddles that CJ C has already tried. Maybe those differences will be enough that the Romin is the perfect saddle for him... but I confess I'm a bit skeptical.
    Here is a profile shot of the Romin Evo on a bike.



    The profile is more swoopy like the Selle.

    That said, the profile of the Selle is absurd. You might as well sit in a sissy banana seat from a girls cruiser bike circa 1978.
    The more curvature you put into a saddle, the more you are confined to nestling in the cradle of the seat. The kick up on the Romin saddle is not intended to be a butt hugger, but a stop break for the sit bones to push against to help generate power. Something particularly helpful when climbing. The whole purpose of the flatter saddle through the middle is to allow for adjustment across the saddle fore and aft. Not only for the sake of comfort (by removing the likelihood of generating a hot spot for sitting on the same area continually), but also allowing you to adjust your hip rotation across varying parts of the saddle to improve performance or comfort while you are in different parts of the handlebar, specifically in the drops. When you get forced into a static position because of the shape of the saddle, you drastically limit your options for position. That might work great if you have a commuter bike with a flat bar that you ride 15-20 miles at a time. On a road bike where you deal with 100 mile trips, and climbs, and descents, and lots of varying road vibrations, sitting in the same spot the whole time is going to become extremely fatiguing. It is also the primary reason why i try to dissuade people from going to a leather saddle like the Brooks. Because over time it too will force you into a static sitting position. So a flatter and harder saddle will remove most all of those issues. And if you have a proper fitting chamois, a hard saddle with be virtually unnoticeable, as a proper fitting saddle should disappear underneath you.

    Granted there is no one size fits all saddle out there. Obviously with all of the different shapes and sizes available, thats obvious. However there are alot of saddles that work for some things, that do not work for long distance road cycling. And unfortunately too many of those options are thrown around on the Clyde forum like its some sort of gospel (like the Brooks zealots). I honestly believe alot of those extremely uninformed opinions are a large part of why so many people get discouraged riding, because they think they have tried every option and avenue they can, because everyone here spouts the same thing over and over again, i.e. brooks, gel, or swoopy, and those are three things that any serious cyclist would scoff at because they generally dont work. Granted, there are exceptions for every rule, but there are alot of inherent truths to cycling, and it pains me how many of them are completely ignored in this subforum, for better or worse.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck_O View Post
    The profile is more swoopy like the Selle.
    The seating area looks pretty darn flat to me...

    That might work great if you have a commuter bike with a flat bar that you ride 15-20 miles at a time. On a road bike where you deal with 100 mile trips, and climbs, and descents, and lots of varying road vibrations, sitting in the same spot the whole time is going to become extremely fatiguing.
    Not in my experience! I put a Selle SMP Lite 209 on my drop-bar touring bike and rode it 500 miles (and 19,000 feet of elevation gain) from San Francisco to Los Angeles. Super-comfy for the entire week! Even the 100-mile day from Pismo Beach to Santa Barbara. Ended up riding that saddle for about 850-900 miles in the month I did the trip with absolutely no saddle-related problems.

    I honestly believe alot of those extremely uninformed opinions are a large part of why so many people get discouraged riding, because they think they have tried every option and avenue they can, because everyone here spouts the same thing over and over again, i.e. brooks, gel, or swoopy, and those are three things that any serious cyclist would scoff at because they generally dont work.
    Sounds to me like you're part of this problem. The OP has already tried quite a few dead-flat, minimally-padded ass hatchets but you're urging him to follow the 41 sheep and try yet another one. Aren't you now guilty of doing the very thing this paragraph argues against: spouting the same thing over and over again?

  6. #56
    Senior Member CJ C's Avatar
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    romin came in today, sucks as i wont get to test it for a few days. let you guys know the first impression.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    The seating area looks pretty darn flat to me...



    Not in my experience! I put a Selle SMP Lite 209 on my drop-bar touring bike and rode it 500 miles (and 19,000 feet of elevation gain) from San Francisco to Los Angeles. Super-comfy for the entire week! Even the 100-mile day from Pismo Beach to Santa Barbara. Ended up riding that saddle for about 850-900 miles in the month I did the trip with absolutely no saddle-related problems.



    Sounds to me like you're part of this problem. The OP has already tried quite a few dead-flat, minimally-padded ass hatchets but you're urging him to follow the 41 sheep and try yet another one. Aren't you now guilty of doing the very thing this paragraph argues against: spouting the same thing over and over again?
    Wow, ignorance must really be bliss.
    Also, i suggest you get a new optometrist, because hes doing you no favors.

    The Romin saddles, infact almost all of the Specialized BG line saddles have absolutely no flat spots on them. They have FLATTER spots, but to call them "flat ass hatchets" is absurd. Im willing to bet too, that if you looked at a Specialized Romin, and a Fizik Aliante Versus without branding, you would say they were exactly the same saddle, and "completely flat". Yet if you actually rode them, nothing could be further from the truth as to how both of these saddles fit, feel, ride, and perform.

    You show an impressive amount of ignorance in your comment "sounds like you're part of this problem". To say that all "ass hatchets" are inherently poor fitting is completely incorrect and ignorant. To call any racing oriented saddle "dead flat" is equally as incorrect and ignorant. Many clydes can, and do ride on "dead flat saddles with minimal padding" and find them perfectly fine, and very comfortable.

    You also miss the entire point of what i said, by taking a totalitarian approach of of "all saddles that look like X are bad, you need a saddle like Y because your a clyde". Which only proves my point entirely about the ignorance people spot on this board. So thank you for rather concisely proving my point.
    The fact of the matter is, there is no "magic bullet saddle". There is almost no way to tell what saddle will work right simply by looking at it (clearly you prove this by calling an 8 inch radius "flat"). You HAVE, HAVE to ride it to tell if it is going to work. And whether you are a clyde or not, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the size and shape of the saddle you have. Hell, there is a guy that weighs half as much as i do, and rides a LARGER Specialized BG saddle then i do. Why? Because his sit bones are shaped different then mine. LIKE EVERYONE ELSES! So its a matter of narrowing down what your butt likes. Flat, curved, flat with a kick, or flat with a dip? Do you prefer a round profile, or a flat profile? A short nose, or a long nose? You start at a basic shape, ride what you can, and narrow it down until you reach a spot that is comfortable, and meets your needs. Its pretty simple really. Trying to shoehorn someone into a specific type of saddle is completely wrong. How you fail to grasp that concept is completely beyond me. So again...thanks for proving my point.

    I have no more time to waste on fools like you, and wont bother to reply to any more of your messages. Infact, im inclined to add you to my ignore list just for the hell of it.

    Good Day, Sir.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ C View Post
    romin came in today, sucks as i wont get to test it for a few days. let you guys know the first impression.
    Bummer. Really curious to hear your impressions. Please post back as soon as you get the time.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck_O View Post
    The Romin saddles, infact almost all of the Specialized BG line saddles have absolutely no flat spots on them.

    They have FLATTER spots, but to call them "flat ass hatchets" is absurd.
    I've ridden the Specialized Toupe, Phenom, Alias, and Avatar saddles. As far as my eyes and butt can tell, they're all extremely flat in the seating area. Please: focus on that last part before flying off the handle yet again. It's the key to understanding my posts, which you have failed to do so far. I found them all of these Specialized saddles to be painful, so I think the "ass hatchet" designation is warranted. As with all things saddle-related, YMMV.

    You show an impressive amount of ignorance in your comment "sounds like you're part of this problem". To say that all "ass hatchets" are inherently poor fitting is completely incorrect and ignorant.
    I never said that these saddles are poor fitting. What I said was: flat, minimally padded saddles don't seem to be working for the OP, so he should try something different if the Romin doesn't work. Are you really going to argue against this advice? Especially give what you yourself have written?!?

    The fact of the matter is, there is no "magic bullet saddle". There is almost no way to tell what saddle will work right simply by looking at it (clearly you prove this by calling an 8 inch radius "flat"). You HAVE, HAVE to ride it to tell if it is going to work. And whether you are a clyde or not, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the size and shape of the saddle you have. Hell, there is a guy that weighs half as much as i do, and rides a LARGER Specialized BG saddle then i do. Why? Because his sit bones are shaped different then mine. LIKE EVERYONE ELSES! So its a matter of narrowing down what your butt likes. Flat, curved, flat with a kick, or flat with a dip? Do you prefer a round profile, or a flat profile? A short nose, or a long nose? You start at a basic shape, ride what you can, and narrow it down until you reach a spot that is comfortable, and meets your needs. Its pretty simple really. Trying to shoehorn someone into a specific type of saddle is completely wrong.
    I agree with this completely and, in fact, it is exactly what I am suggesting! Apparently, your piss poor reading comprehension skills have let you down, which is why you feel the need to argue with me despite the fact that we're essentially saying the same thing.

    I think the only thing we really disagree on is whether the Specialized Romin Evo is flat or curved in the seating area. Why you're behaving like such a flaming jackass over such a small issue is beyond me...

  10. #60
    Senior Member CJ C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck_O View Post
    Bummer. Really curious to hear your impressions. Please post back as soon as you get the time.
    Rode it around the block this morning to get a feel of the angle i would like. im usually a nose down guy but this saddle may need to be level. so far i like it, i am really loving the wide cut out. but i think i should have went for the 155 instead of the 143? was measured and guy said i am a 143 in specialized. it just feels like i am at the edge.

    again it was a short 5 minute ride and all saddles (except the toupe) feel good for that short of a time. Going to take it for a hour ride tomorrow and a 2 hour one on sunday. The hour ride will be able to tell me about numbness and taint abuse. the 2 hour one will tell me about over all comfort.


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    Not even remotely Saddle related, but that is such a beautiful frame. Ive always liked Bianchi and BMC's geometric frame aesthetic in how the tubing shape and size and angle work so well together, and they way they are painted makes it that much more unique. Also digging the red spokes, the asymmetrical bottle cages, and the tire color mix up.

    Reminds me of how, over time, i have slowly removed all the obnoxious red on my F75, and slowly started to reintegrate it back in again with the increased number of black bits.

    Yes, i like bikes because of how they ride and feel, but people wouldnt care about Ferrari's if they looked like shoe boxes either.

  12. #62
    Senior Member CJ C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck_O View Post
    Not even remotely Saddle related, but that is such a beautiful frame. Ive always liked Bianchi and BMC's geometric frame aesthetic in how the tubing shape and size and angle work so well together, and they way they are painted makes it that much more unique. Also digging the red spokes, the asymmetrical bottle cages, and the tire color mix up.

    Reminds me of how, over time, i have slowly removed all the obnoxious red on my F75, and slowly started to reintegrate it back in again with the increased number of black bits.

    Yes, i like bikes because of how they ride and feel, but people wouldnt care about Ferrari's if they looked like shoe boxes either.

    thank you. i love this bike it begs you to ride it. the bottle cages are off as i havent swung by a performance bike in a while to get the matching cage. not worth the the trip, but if in the area i will stop in. Miss-matched tires are because i havent had the chance to change out the front one, also its still in okay shape so i am not in hurry to change it. will be happy to get all black tires as keeping the red tires clean wear a pain in the arse. Also you cant see it but i used red and green zip-ties to complete the italian theme

    Funny i also was lusting after the BMC, the one competitive cyclist had on sale for $999 its one good looking bike (it probably performs well too). and really at the novice level i would rather have a good looking bike the begs me to ride it than a ugly bike that has perfect performance

  13. #63
    Senior Member CJ C's Avatar
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    Took the bike out with the new saddle for a 1 hour ride and.......



    ....NO NUMBNESSSS AND MY TAINT DOESNT FEEL LIKE IT WAS PUCHED FOR AN HOUR!!!!!!!!!!!


    Its a comfortable saddle and the cutout is a breath of fresh air. I will never ride a saddle with out a cut out ever again. I loved how i am not confined to one spot. i can slide forward and back without any taint or family jewel discomfort. even though i am putting more weight now on my sit bones (I'm top heavy) it wasn't uncomfortable at all. I have a felling later today my sit bones my be tender, but during the ride it was bliss compared to other saddles i have tried. Finally being able to have a level saddle is great as no i don't feel like i will fall off sliding forward, and with this i am able to relax my arms hands and grips more. That over bumpy roads is huge for shock absorption.

    That said it was only a one hour ride, we will see how it is on a two hour ride. but at the end of todays hour ride i felt more comfortable than at the beginning so that is a good sign. I may need to toughen up the sit bones before I attempt a metric century.

    I am very very happy right now. but afraid to count my eggs before they hatch (two hour + ride)

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    Thats great news! Im glad you have found something that works well.

    A couple of things i have found in relation to saddles like this...I keep a shower cap stuffed in my tool bag, just in case it rains. That cutout leaves nothing between your butt and the water. So keep that in mind.

    Also, with other saddles that have a cut out int he middle, IMHO, do not fit as well as the Specialized ones. They have a very nice profile to them, and have a gentle slope to the cutout before it drops off. Other saddles with cutouts do not have a nice a profile shape, and i have encountered hotspots on the ridge area of the cut out. So that is something to be aware of in the future with other brands.


    But my ass is happy your ass is happy.

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    Happy A$$ = Happy Clyde! Glad you found something that works well.

  16. #66
    Senior Member CJ C's Avatar
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    thanks Buck-o,

    Good tip on the baggie. Last year i rode my 80's road bike with a old spec BG saddle with a cut out. I know all about riding in rain and getting the "trail on the shorts". Also my saddle bag is pretty darn big and covers the whole area.

    serioulsy the saddle bag is huge, it holds 3 tire levers, multi tool, tube, two co2, patch kit box, cellphone, whole wallet, keys, cliff bar and still has room.


    LOL rearviewbeer,

    so true a happy clyde arse means a happy clyde ride. unfortunately unlike my dream a happy clyde rear didnt mean a 3mph bump in speed

  17. #67
    Senior Member CJ C's Avatar
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    Second ride on the Romin, i think i am in love


    It was only an hour ride and it has been my first ride sicne i started riding again where i didnt have to concentrate on my arse. i just rode. it was wonderful!!!!!!!

    I really thought my sit bones would be tender after the first ride but they weren't. I though hmm mabye after todays ride the would be too as the route i took was bumpy, and nope i feel fine. Actually I could ride repeat days and it not even be an issue.

  18. #68
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    Awesome man!

  19. #69
    Senior Member CJ C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck_O View Post
    Awesome man!
    thanks, going to try to get in the 2 hour ride tomorrow, time permitting. Will updated

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    Best way to take weight off your saddle is work harder on the pedals,
    weight transfers to your feet, then..

  21. #71
    Senior Member CJ C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Best way to take weight off your saddle is work harder on the pedals,
    weight transfers to your feet, then..
    that just the easy way out

  22. #72
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    today got in a 2 hour ride, and around the 1:30 mark i did get a bit uncomfortable. Just in the sit bone area, no numbness and no taint abuse at all.

    When i got home i got off the bike and was about to carry my bike up the stairs and i saw the impression where my arse sits on the saddle. It looks like i could do a 155 size but this one works well so i will just keep it in mind when i am shopping for a new one or get another bike.

    So after todays ride i am 100% sold on the romin evo for my body.

  23. #73
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    Sounds like you have the same problem i did, but in reverse. When the Specialized dealer did the butt-o-meter on me, i was right on the borderline of the 143, and the 155. And they initially sold me the 155 because "well, youre a clyde". I rode it for a week, and put about 550 miles on it (this was when i was in training mode), and consistently had issues with the saddle chafing on the side of my thigh, and getting a hotspot right at the skin crease of the buttock. So i took it back and traded it for a 143, and havent had any issue with hot spots or chaffing since. Obviously when its the start of the season, and my sitbones have gone all soft from the couch over the winter, i do have some sitbone discomfort. But after a week or two of riding, it goes away...along with the rest of the protests my muscles make about riding.

  24. #74
    Senior Member CJ C's Avatar
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    i dont have to worry about any saddle and legs rubbing, i am a clyde with no arse and chicken legs. Even when i was power lifting and squatting 5 plates each side,and only weighing 170lbs, i had chicken legs. (ripped and solid chicken legs). and three years ago i was squating 5 plates each side at 249lbs i still had chicken legs?
    At my heaviest 300lbs and hadnt worked out in 3 years i still had chicken legs, you couldnt even pinch or find fat on them. imagine a 300 pound guy having chicken legs with no fat on them?

    its just my genetics i can never get huge muscular legs nor fat ba-dunk-a-dunk legs. if i lift weights for 2 weeks even light ones at 15-20 reps my shoulders grow and widen so much it make it look like i have a peanut head. At one point when i was 19 or 20 i could shoulder press as much as i could bench press.

    genetics is a crazy thing.

  25. #75
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    Heh, well, i have the exact opposite problem. No ass to speak of, and massive thighs. And i havent weighed under 200 pounds since i was 13. Closest i came was senior year in highschool where i was 205. But i looked weird as hell because of my barrel chest. And even with the 7% body fat i had at the time, i still looked "tubby" because my abs were so distended it looked like i had a bit of a gut.

    My main problem now is upper body strength, after two broken arms in two years the amount of atrophy is pretty bad.

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