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  1. #1
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    I'm on the verge of changin my mind on training rims, C2?

    So, the 36h Velocity DeepV is up and running successfully on my primary rear and has several hundred km on it already.

    However, the 32h DT Swiss 585's I ordered from Chain Reaction Cycles in Ireland still aren't in stock and it appears they won't be for some time. So, I'm looking to order from elsewhere. I ordered from them, because I could get free shipping to NZ. If ordering from the States I need someone willing to ship here for reasonable rates. Or, I have to have them sent to my Uncle and him forward them to me, at somewhat high cost. The local shops basically base their pricing on the cost of purchasing a single rim abroad and having it shipped to NZ. So, you're usually looking at roughly $200/rim.

    The fact that I'm reordering, has caused me to re-evaluate what I may want. I'm thinking about 23-24mm wide rims. On that list and available in 32h are:
    HED Belgium C2
    Various Velocity rims, A23, Dyad, Synergy, Chucker
    DT Swiss TK540
    I've ruled out Mavic's, just 'cause I want to try something else.
    I really seem to like welded joints. Which leads me toward the HED's or DT's.

    The ultimate plan is that these would be my primary training wheels. The current 36h ultegra hubs become backups. And, then there would be a set of "event" wheels that are yet to be determined. I would like to be able to switch between wheels without constantly needing to adjust brakes. If I went with 23-24mm training wheels, what would my options be for "event" wheels without spending a fortune? I wish Zipp did the 101's in a higher spoke count. They seem like they would be a good alternative to something like a Mavic Ksyrium Elite. I could build A23's into reasonably light set, but, how light and still maintain durability for a 235-250lbs clyde? Or, a second set of C2's in a reduced spoke count. But, how strong are the C2 rims?

    Yes, I agonize over this stuff. At least I'm usually happy with my acquisitions.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  2. #2
    Watching and waiting. jethro56's Avatar
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    I felt your pain. I ended up ordering a 36 hole Pure Tour Wheelset from BicycleWheelWarehouse so I didn't have to think about this anymore. The no name rims are kinda a wider DeepV.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for empathizing Jethro. Unfortunately, prebuilts aren't being considered for this set. I'll be hand building them myself as part of my quest to become non-reliant on LBS' for wheel services. I will be self sufficient with regard to my cycling.

    Did you notice any handling difference when going to slightly wider rim?
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  4. #4
    Watching and waiting. jethro56's Avatar
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    I didn't figure you'd go prebuilt. I'm just glad to make a decision. I'll have to admit they appear to be OK. The tension is uniform though higher than I expected. (125-130). Trued to less than .3mm Lateral. Radial was so close I didn't even measure it. They're going on a Cross Check that hasn't been assembled yet. Waiting on LBS to face and chase.

  5. #5
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    I've got a set of A23's that came on some crap factory builds that I detensioned and rebuilt. They built up (3x 32h F&R)and tensioned with no hiccups. I haven't noticed any of the so called handling improvements or the "tubular" feel that all of the marketing materials claim. But I haven't really ridden them at high speeds yet so I might have a different opinion after bombing a mountain descent at 45mph+.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisan View Post
    I've got a set of A23's that came on some crap factory builds that I detensioned and rebuilt. They built up (3x 32h F&R)and tensioned with no hiccups. I haven't noticed any of the so called handling improvements or the "tubular" feel that all of the marketing materials claim. But I haven't really ridden them at high speeds yet so I might have a different opinion after bombing a mountain descent at 45mph+.
    Any indication of whether the tire profile height changed? One of my concerns is whether the wider rim will allow more or less tire clearance between tread and brake calipers. It's already extremely tight with 25's. If I lost any clearance it would be a deal killer. Likewise, if I gained enough to allow 28's it would help justify the decission, regardless of other factors.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    Any indication of whether the tire profile height changed? One of my concerns is whether the wider rim will allow more or less tire clearance between tread and brake calipers. It's already extremely tight with 25's. If I lost any clearance it would be a deal killer. Likewise, if I gained enough to allow 28's it would help justify the decission, regardless of other factors.
    I would think that you would gain clearance because of the wider bead but to be honest I haven't paid attention because I have a Specialized Roubaix and there's a mile of clearance to begin with. If you give me a couple of days I'll swap the tires to a different set of wheels and take some measurements for you.

  8. #8
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    If you're willing and able to do that, it would be great. I agree, that in theory, I believe it should decrease vertical height and increase clearance. But, it wouldn't be the first time that I've been surprised.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    If you're willing and able to do that, it would be great. I agree, that in theory, I believe it should decrease vertical height and increase clearance. But, it wouldn't be the first time that I've been surprised.
    No problem. I've been needing to swap my rear tire to the front anyway so this will give me an excuse.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    I wish Zipp did the 101's in a higher spoke count. They seem like they would be a good alternative to something like a Mavic Ksyrium Elite. I could build A23's into reasonably light set, but, how light and still maintain durability for a 235-250lbs clyde?

    Zipp 101s are rated up to 250lbs.. While not exactly apples-to-apples, I've got some 404's that I beat the h3ll out of and they are perfect after a few thousand miles. Zipp's are pretty strong in my book..
    Last edited by matthewk459; 04-17-12 at 06:24 PM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member DoubleTap's Avatar
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    I've now built two sets of C2's, both 32 hole sets, one with Dura Ace hubs and one set with DT Swiss hubs. I LOVE them. The bigger tire feels better, especially when turning, and they have held true for me at 320 lbs. on full carbon bike. My buddy, 240 lbs., has built A23's and also a set of C2 wheels, and he's very happy with both. He built the C2's after seeing how well mine ride.

  12. #12
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    O.K. So, where do I find the best price on HED rims? So far they're not looking cheap.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  13. #13
    Senior Member DoubleTap's Avatar
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    Sorry, can't help you there. I buy my parts from a local wheelbuilder, who is a genius at building wheels and is also a great teacher.

    http://www.sugarwheelworks.com

  14. #14
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    Yeh,

    The price for the DT 585's was $83NZD ea. and shipping was going to be included, because of the size of the order. The HED's at $120USD divided by the exchange rate, plus shipping from the states is just a bit out of reach at the moment.

    My other options are Velocity Dyad's (pinned joint not welded), DT TK 540's (welded joint but box section), start looking for an affordable 29'er rim. Or, revert to previous DT 585 decission and simply order them from the states.

    Oh, the fretting I can participate in on these decissions. It's almost unimaginable.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  15. #15
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    Fred,
    Ok so I swapped tires onto a different set of rims and took some measurements. For reference here's what was used:
    Rim 1: velocity A23
    Rim 2: Neuvation M style std 19mm width rim
    Tires: vittoria Rubino Pro 23mm
    I used the same exact tire for both measurements.

    A23+Rubino Pro: 25mm wide and I had 11.8mm clearence from top of tire to a flat point on brake I used as a reference.
    19mm wide rim+Rubino Pro: 23.6 mm wide, 11.2mm clearance to the same point.
    So the tires do sit wider and flatter than on conventional rims but not as much as they would have us believe. Hope this info helps you make your decision.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisan View Post
    Fred,
    Ok so I swapped tires onto a different set of rims and took some measurements. For reference here's what was used:
    Rim 1: velocity A23
    Rim 2: Neuvation M style std 19mm width rim
    Tires: vittoria Rubino Pro 23mm
    I used the same exact tire for both measurements.

    A23+Rubino Pro: 25mm wide and I had 11.8mm clearence from top of tire to a flat point on brake I used as a reference.
    19mm wide rim+Rubino Pro: 23.6 mm wide, 11.2mm clearance to the same point.
    So the tires do sit wider and flatter than on conventional rims but not as much as they would have us believe. Hope this info helps you make your decision.
    Perfect. Thanks a bunch. It does help. Now it's just a matter of sourcing rims. And, getting them here. By the way, if it makes any difference, Mrs. Fred has some 23mm Rubino Pros and I the 25's. There isn't 1mm difference between them. However, they mounted on ever so slightly different rims. If I get a chance, I'll do a side by side on an identical rim.

    It's looking like I can't get HED Belgium C2's here.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    By the way, if it makes any difference, Mrs. Fred has some 23mm Rubino Pros and I the 25's. There isn't 1mm difference between them.
    It's so uncommon these days to see a tire actually measure at it's rated width let alone wider that at first i thought I mismeasured. but I didn't, it truly sits at 23.6mm while on a std 19mm rim.

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