cadence for a big guy
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
cadence for a big guy - bounce?
so I put a computer on my bike to monitor cadence and on the first ride with it (5 miles) I had an average of 78 with which I'm happy with my question is: around 86ish and above I seem to start to bounce. Do I have my seat to high or is it a form thing that I need to work into? I was having a little bit of knee pain before which went away after I raised my seat (followed this to adjust my fit on the bike).
Last edited by chepburn; 04-28-12 at 07:56 AM.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I just posted this in your other thread:
90 rpm (+/-10rpm) is the optimal cadence range so you should keeping working towards being able to consistently pedal in that range, but a good rule of thumb for cadence is:
If your legs hurt shift up(Pedal easier/higher cadence)
If your lungs hurt(heavy breathing)shift down(pedal harder/lower cadence)
If your legs hurt shift up(Pedal easier/higher cadence)
If your lungs hurt(heavy breathing)shift down(pedal harder/lower cadence)
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The bounce happens because of the dead spot in the pedal stroke at the bottom dead center. The idea is to try to get the pedal past that spot as smoothly as possible. One trick is to try to pedal in circles instead of squares, to do this some people suggest using a "Wipe your foot" motion at the bottom.
You just started biking and fixing the bounce doesn't happen overnight. You just have to keep working at it, keep pedaling at higher cadences and eventually it will smooth itself out.
You just started biking and fixing the bounce doesn't happen overnight. You just have to keep working at it, keep pedaling at higher cadences and eventually it will smooth itself out.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 919
Bikes: Wally World Huffy Cranbrook Cruiser (with siily wicker front basket)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
The bounce happens because of the dead spot in the pedal stroke at the bottom dead center. The idea is to try to get the pedal past that spot as smoothly as possible. One trick is to try to pedal in circles instead of squares, to do this some people suggest using a "Wipe your foot" motion at the bottom.
You just started biking and fixing the bounce doesn't happen overnight. You just have to keep working at it, keep pedaling at higher cadences and eventually it will smooth itself out.
You just started biking and fixing the bounce doesn't happen overnight. You just have to keep working at it, keep pedaling at higher cadences and eventually it will smooth itself out.
but the bouncing thing gets better as you ride more. last year i would bounce at 90rpm played with seat height (really really small adjustments) and the 90 was ok but at 95 i would bounce.
this year i think i bounce around 120-130 but at that rpm my legs are going link a squirrel on crack and redbull so noticing anything is not a concern.
like paisan says you can try visualizing wiping mud off your shoes at the bottom of your stroke, or the other tip is having your toes point a bit down and the bottom of your stroke, or the other i was told is seat height.
but i cant say that any of those worked. i felt it was just the practicing riding at higher cadence that worked the most.
just ride on, have fun and say wheeeeeeeeeeeee down all hills.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chelan, WA
Posts: 390
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD-10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I find that if I'm "bouncing", it's usually because I'm in too low of a gear. Try shifting up and maintain that cadence.
#7
Watching and waiting.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Mattoon,Ill
Posts: 2,023
Bikes: Trek 7300 Trek Madone 4.5 Surly Cross Check
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If you just starting out a cadence in the 80's is really good. When you work on cadence try to keep it just below the bouncing rpm. I try to think about keeping "light on my feet" and lifting my leg on the upstroke. By lifting your leg on the upstroke you're using more muscles and not depending on the downstroke to lift the opposite leg.
#8
Out fishing with Annie on his lap, a cigar in one hand and a ginger ale in the other, watching the sunset.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Posts: 16,056
Bikes: Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times
in
17 Posts
One thing you can do to work on a smooth spin is to pick up a fixed gear bike. You have to pedal smoothly and constantly with a fixed gear, and this will do wonders for your spin and endurance on a road bike with gears that you can coast on.
__________________
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341
Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times
in
226 Posts
so I put a computer on my bike to monitor cadence and on the first ride with it (5 miles) I had an average of 78 with which I'm happy with my question is: around 86ish and above I seem to start to bounce. Do I have my seat to high or is it a form thing that I need to work into? I was having a little bit of knee pain before which went away after I raised my seat (followed this to adjust my fit on the bike).
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341
Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times
in
226 Posts
Definitions of "optimal" (burns the fewest calories, makes the most power, produces the least fatigue for a given power) vary, the answers depend on both power output and the individual, and what feels best as a self-selected cadence needn't match any variant of "optimal."
To generalize you need more RPMs for least fatigue and highest average power for a duration as the power requirements go up. 70 RPM might be great for an all-day endurance ride but be unsustainable for more than five minutes at a power you could otherwise manage for an hour at higher RPM (Racing and Training with a Power Meter includes an anecdote about such a racer who got dropped every time he spent more than five minutes with such a combination). At an hour pace I can ride threshold intervals on consecutive days at 90-100 RPM but not much less. It might take 110 RPM for your fastest sprint.
Regardless, being able to spin faster (120-140 RPM isn't unreasonable) is a fine idea because it'll let you apply power at higher speeds and perhaps let you run a bigger starting cog for tighter spacing between gears at the speeds you travel more often and/or smaller big ring so you can shift your front derailleur less often and have a better quieter chain angle at cruising speeds.
To generalize you need more RPMs for least fatigue and highest average power for a duration as the power requirements go up. 70 RPM might be great for an all-day endurance ride but be unsustainable for more than five minutes at a power you could otherwise manage for an hour at higher RPM (Racing and Training with a Power Meter includes an anecdote about such a racer who got dropped every time he spent more than five minutes with such a combination). At an hour pace I can ride threshold intervals on consecutive days at 90-100 RPM but not much less. It might take 110 RPM for your fastest sprint.
Regardless, being able to spin faster (120-140 RPM isn't unreasonable) is a fine idea because it'll let you apply power at higher speeds and perhaps let you run a bigger starting cog for tighter spacing between gears at the speeds you travel more often and/or smaller big ring so you can shift your front derailleur less often and have a better quieter chain angle at cruising speeds.
#11
Fat Cyclist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 673
Bikes: '11 Cannondale SuperSix Dura-Ace
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Is a higher cadence directly linked to more efficient rides? If you can maintain an average speed at a low cadence (say 75-85) longer and more efficiently, why would one suggest that you switch to a lower gear and higher cadence? Almost every time I go to the LBS they tell me to pedal at a high cadence, yet for me, it is less efficient than pedaling at 80 RPM. I guess because of the fact that I bodybuild, "gear mashing" works better for me.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cobourg Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,206
Bikes: ParleeZ5/Parlee Chebacco/Trek Farley/Cannondale Slice/Burley Tandem
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
4 Posts
The bounce could be from form and fit. As for cadance, I find it falls where it needs to be. I can run a cadance over 200 on the trainer and have seen 189 on the road but my average always falls between 82-86. We all have different styles and we all need to do what's right for us. It all depends on terrain and riding style. I do a lot of group riding which requires a heavy gear at times. Watch the pros, not all are spinning at 90 like a certain LA guy who popularized high leg speed most are going bigger gear between 75-85. Do what's right for you.
#13
Banned.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Uncertain
Posts: 8,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Is a higher cadence directly linked to more efficient rides? If you can maintain an average speed at a low cadence (say 75-85) longer and more efficiently, why would one suggest that you switch to a lower gear and higher cadence? Almost every time I go to the LBS they tell me to pedal at a high cadence, yet for me, it is less efficient than pedaling at 80 RPM. I guess because of the fact that I bodybuild, "gear mashing" works better for me.
This is why one typically sees beginners spinning lower cadences. It feels easier, as long as you aren't going too far, and they simply aren't fit enough to maintain higher RPMs.
Last edited by chasm54; 04-29-12 at 12:41 PM.
#14
Fat Cyclist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 673
Bikes: '11 Cannondale SuperSix Dura-Ace
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Depends what you mean by efficient. Higher cadence is easier on muscles and joints, but harder on heart and lungs. So the further and faster you go, the more a high cadence will help, because your muscles get less fatigued - you're pushing a smaller gear to go the same speed. However, this is only possible if you are aerobically fit enough to take up and use the extra oxygen that is required. - there's an energy cost to just moving your legs faster.
This is why one typically sees beginners spinning lower cadences. It feels easier, as long as you aren't going too far, and they simply aren't fit enough to maintain higher RPMs.
This is why one typically sees beginners spinning lower cadences. It feels easier, as long as you aren't going too far, and they simply aren't fit enough to maintain higher RPMs.
#15
Senior Member
Is a higher cadence directly linked to more efficient rides? If you can maintain an average speed at a low cadence (say 75-85) longer and more efficiently, why would one suggest that you switch to a lower gear and higher cadence? Almost every time I go to the LBS they tell me to pedal at a high cadence, yet for me, it is less efficient than pedaling at 80 RPM. I guess because of the fact that I bodybuild, "gear mashing" works better for me.
When I was young and new, I too felt as though I was more efficient when "mashing". I wasn't. With time and just a little bit of spin training you'll soon find that 100-105 rpm is nothing. To reach that point it requires improving your rpm redline by performing spinning drills. These include not only working on how "fast" you can spin, but, also on how "smoothly" you spin. One legged drills, scrape and lift practice, etc. Get a smooth pedal stroke, then work of foot speed. Soon you be spinning like a little man.
__________________
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
#16
Senior Member
I can do a half century at 85 RPM, so your second statement must not be true for everyone. I just feel like a higher cadence is a waste of energy--spinning at 100-130 RPM and going half as fast as I would if I were to change gears and drop to 85 RPM. I'll try a high RMP on my next long ride this weekend and see how it plays out since I am in pretty good shape.
110-120+ is starting to get into sprinting speeds and not something that would normally be sustainable for longer distances.
With 25 years of cycling experience I was pretty confident that I knew what a cadence of 90 rpm felt like. Until Mrs. Fred bought me a new cycling computer with cadence and heart rate sensors. I wasn't far off. But I was cycling at 80-90 instead of 90-100. Almost overnight, my performance increased. My friends all noticed it. And nothing had really changed but the fact that I was now usually spinning 1 gear lower than I had been. That's the extent of the difference. 1-2 gears lower.
__________________
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
#17
Banned.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Uncertain
Posts: 8,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
This.
Axiom, we're at the margins, here. If your usual cadence is c. 85 you're not far below what most people would regard as optimal - it's not as if you are mashing at 60, as a beginner might. And I am anything but an evangelist for high cadences, I just do what comes naturally. But it is certainly true that what comes naturally has tended towards higher cadences as I have got fitter and sought to go faster. Something close to 100 now feels normal to me, and I am able to maintain higher cruising speeds as a result.
Axiom, we're at the margins, here. If your usual cadence is c. 85 you're not far below what most people would regard as optimal - it's not as if you are mashing at 60, as a beginner might. And I am anything but an evangelist for high cadences, I just do what comes naturally. But it is certainly true that what comes naturally has tended towards higher cadences as I have got fitter and sought to go faster. Something close to 100 now feels normal to me, and I am able to maintain higher cruising speeds as a result.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 305
Bikes: Brompton M6R, Salsa Mukluk II, Trek 7500, Raliegh fixie, 3 SS cruisers, JC Higgins Color Flow, Junker Flying Jet, KHS F20-A, Worksman trike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Try riding with your tires at maximum air pressure. The harder the tires, the less they'll give.
That or get cages or clips. Eventually you'll stop thinking of the pedals as working in a downward motion only and start using a more circular motion.
That or get cages or clips. Eventually you'll stop thinking of the pedals as working in a downward motion only and start using a more circular motion.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The GTA, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 735
Bikes: 2009 Rocky Mountain RC30 D
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
This.
Axiom, we're at the margins, here. If your usual cadence is c. 85 you're not far below what most people would regard as optimal - it's not as if you are mashing at 60, as a beginner might. And I am anything but an evangelist for high cadences, I just do what comes naturally. But it is certainly true that what comes naturally has tended towards higher cadences as I have got fitter and sought to go faster. Something close to 100 now feels normal to me, and I am able to maintain higher cruising speeds as a result.
Axiom, we're at the margins, here. If your usual cadence is c. 85 you're not far below what most people would regard as optimal - it's not as if you are mashing at 60, as a beginner might. And I am anything but an evangelist for high cadences, I just do what comes naturally. But it is certainly true that what comes naturally has tended towards higher cadences as I have got fitter and sought to go faster. Something close to 100 now feels normal to me, and I am able to maintain higher cruising speeds as a result.
Measurables like cadence comes into play when one makes the transition from bicycle rider to cyclist.
As you have mentioned, the more you ride the higher range your cadence falls into. That being said, I suspect Axiom will be no different than the majority with respect to his cadence level.
#20
Senior Member
Originally Posted by paisan
90 rpm (+/-10rpm) is the optimal cadence range so you should keeping working towards being able to consistently pedal in that range, but a good rule of thumb for cadence is:
If your legs hurt shift up(Pedal easier/higher cadence)
If your lungs hurt(heavy breathing)shift down(pedal harder/lower cadence)
And I try to do both of these. Depending on the ride I'll work on cadence (lungs) or legs. It could be during the same ride. Grab some gears, get out of the saddle and mash a while.
I'll also work on making circles (flat Jersey is good for that right paisan?). Wonder what people think when they see folks going 16 mph pedaling one legged?
Good stuff in this thread.
90 rpm (+/-10rpm) is the optimal cadence range so you should keeping working towards being able to consistently pedal in that range, but a good rule of thumb for cadence is:
If your legs hurt shift up(Pedal easier/higher cadence)
If your lungs hurt(heavy breathing)shift down(pedal harder/lower cadence)
And I try to do both of these. Depending on the ride I'll work on cadence (lungs) or legs. It could be during the same ride. Grab some gears, get out of the saddle and mash a while.
I'll also work on making circles (flat Jersey is good for that right paisan?). Wonder what people think when they see folks going 16 mph pedaling one legged?
Good stuff in this thread.
#21
Really Old Senior Member
What's the length of your cranks vs the length of your legs?
I have to run 165MM cranks because one knee doesn't bend as far as it should.
Using 175MM cranks, my foot is leaving the pedal at about 63 RPM. I guess that might be considered "bounce"??
With 165's, I spin 80-85. Going shorter than that starts to reduce my cadence. (160's dropped me to 80 max)
I have to run 165MM cranks because one knee doesn't bend as far as it should.
Using 175MM cranks, my foot is leaving the pedal at about 63 RPM. I guess that might be considered "bounce"??
With 165's, I spin 80-85. Going shorter than that starts to reduce my cadence. (160's dropped me to 80 max)
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I know this has absolutely nothing to do with cadence but there's a significant difference in your mileage in two different threads. If you're going to ask for help, make bold statements, or discredit another poster's advice(as you did to Chasm) it helps to have the facts straight so that others can take or give proper advice.
#23
Senior Member
I know this has absolutely nothing to do with cadence but there's a significant difference in your mileage in two different threads. If you're going to ask for help, make bold statements, or discredit another poster's advice(as you did to Chasm) it helps to have the facts straight so that others can take or give proper advice.
__________________
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
#24
Senior Member
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 919
Bikes: Wally World Huffy Cranbrook Cruiser (with siily wicker front basket)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
like i said, once i learned to spin at a higher cadence i could go farther, longer and consecutive days. i still mash but i save that for overpasses, sprinting to get into the left lane to turn, sprint away from dogs, catch up to the 80 year old guy on a rusty mountain bike that just past me, mash through the wind that has me going 9mph, catch up and try to pass the girl who just flew by me (yes ego thing), mash to not get caught at the red light.
its nice to save your legs during a ride to use when needed. it a balance that is available for you to use how you want to. dont over think it and just ride, have fun, then repeat.
its nice to save your legs during a ride to use when needed. it a balance that is available for you to use how you want to. dont over think it and just ride, have fun, then repeat.