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  1. #1
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    Wheel Suggestions

    Hi everybody,

    I'm looking for some advice on new wheels. I know a question like this has been asked many times in this forum. But, it seems to me the individual factors that play into wheel choice vary. So, I wanted to provide my specific inputs and ask for your specific feedback.

    I currently weigh 225 lbs. But my weight varies over time. I am at the low end of my range in recent years. I have been as high as 260 in the last couple of years.

    My bike is a Scott CR1 Team. It currently has the original Mavic Kysrium Elite wheels on it. I have had the bike for four years, and would say I've put between 3,000 and 4,000 miles on it.

    I like to think I ride aggressively. That is I always try to push to my maximum capability. I am in and out of the saddle all the time. I always try to take maximum advantage of downhills. I live in a very hilly area. So, I'm often standing and climbing, or bombing downhill in an aerodynamic tuck. However, i do try very hard to be gentle on the bike. I avoid bumps and potholes whenever possible, and I always get off the saddle when I go over bumps.

    I need new wheels, or at least a new rear wheel. Some history: When I first got the bike, the rear wheel true would only last about 100 miles. I would bring it to my mechanic (who works out of his garage, so he doesn't sell bikes or any significant amount of parts or accessories) and he would true them up. After doing this three times he suggested we needed to try something different. He had called Mavic and they told him the wheels should support my weight. He suggested the wheels might not have been built carefully at the factory. He suggested he could rebuild them, though couldn't gaurantee this would fix the issue. I agreed to try it. The fix worked. In the last three years I only had the wheels trued as part of the annual tune up.

    All this changed today. When I asked the mechanic to true the rear wheel as part of some other service he informed me the wheel is developing tiny cracks around the nipples. It will have to be replaced. So, here I am asking for suggestions. I need a reasonably light wheel for my riding style. But I also need a durable wheel for my weight. Any suggestions for a wheel that will meet my multiple criteria?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Seattle Forrest's Avatar
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    Fulcrum Racing 7. I think they're on sale (1/3 off) at Ribble right now. If not, ask in the road forum, someone might know where.

    Those are cheap, heavy, and bomb proof. I put about 6,000 miles on mine, and semi-retired them. Now they live in a closet and will only come out when I ride over very rough roads. The brake tracks are wearing down, but the wheels have only needed truing once, or perhaps twice - it's hard to remember after a couple years. They've been punished like you wouldn't believe, and they're still in good shape.
    Don't believe everything you think.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Homeyba's Avatar
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    I'd say it's time for a new mechanic. The cracks most likely developed because he over tensioned the wheels. Truing the wheels in-and-of-itself is a waste of time if the wheel isn't tensioned properly. That wheel only has a couple thousand miles on it and it should last 4-5+times longer than that. Built properly, Mavic Kysrium wheels are perfectly adequate for your weight.
    It doesn't get harder, you just go slower.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Padley's Avatar
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    Price range?

    I'm not much lighter than you and am using November CF clinchers for my everyday wheels. Got mine built with 24/28 spokes and they have been great. They are no longer doing the 24/28 spoke counts on the CF wheels. So I would probably go with these http://www.novemberbicycles.com/fsw-23/ in the SOB build of 28/32 spokes
    First Bike - '05 Specialized Allez elite

  5. #5
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    Here is a very common answers to wheels.....Peter White.

  6. #6
    Climbers Apprentice vesteroid's Avatar
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    your going to get all kinds of advice on wheel builders.

    ill throw out two sites that I have seen and like and get good reviews. There are a lot of guys like peter white and psimet and boyd here on the forum and they all make great wheels. They each have their own idea of what makes up (or doesnt) customer service, and they may or may not fit your needs.

    The two sites I have seem to fit more of the internet model, and thats clearly telling you upfront whats in the wheels, what they are going to cost, and when they will ship...deciding if they are right for you is a personal choice (as in no personal guidance or advice really)

    www.prowheelbuilder.com
    www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homeyba View Post
    I'd say it's time for a new mechanic. The cracks most likely developed because he over tensioned the wheels. Truing the wheels in-and-of-itself is a waste of time if the wheel isn't tensioned properly. That wheel only has a couple thousand miles on it and it should last 4-5+times longer than that. Built properly, Mavic Kysrium wheels are perfectly adequate for your weight.
    Homeyba,

    I'm not disagreeing that a Kysrium Elite should be up to the task of hauling around a 260lb rider. However, in this instance, based on the OP's stated history of the wheel, I think you may be a bit quick to condemn the mechanic.

    Mavic Kysriums are not built in such a way that we would expect them to require stress relieving and tensioning before being put into service. They should be good to go fromt he factory. If this wheel was giving issues within the first hundred miles, I suspect that something wasn't right with it from the get go.

    If the mechanic took his time to contact Mavic and came to the rebuild conclussion as a consequence of that communication, I suspect he may have done his best to achieve correct tension for what may have already been a dodgy rim.

    Let's not throw the guy under the bus.

    To the OP,

    At 225lb you have quite a few options. If you want to stay light, Mavic Kysrium Elites actually seem to have a reasonable following although I can't comment from experience. On the more durable side, a 32h Velocity Deep V or DT Swiss 585 laced to the hub of your choice would probably make an excellent "training" wheel.

    I built a 36h Deep V at the end of March, probably have around a 700 miles on them, have given them no favors and they seem to be doing really well. We'll see how they are after 7,000 miles. I've also got a pair of 32h 585 rims that showed up this past week. They'll be getting built up in the next week or so. Leaning against the sofa, still in their plastic, they "look" really nice. So nice that even Mrs. Fred has picked them up and admired them. And, let me tell you, she really doesn't care about gear much, as long as it works.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  8. #8
    Climbers Apprentice vesteroid's Avatar
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    I sometimes drool over a set of a23 s with a 28 front and a 32 rear laced to a set of Chris king r45 hubs. With Sapim cxray spokes


    But when I cost them out, I find pre made zipps for less lol

    Happy with my power tap wheels for training, may go something super light one day if / when I ever get faster

  9. #9
    Senior Member Homeyba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    Homeyba,

    I'm not disagreeing that a Kysrium Elite should be up to the task of hauling around a 260lb rider. However, in this instance, based on the OP's stated history of the wheel, I think you may be a bit quick to condemn the mechanic.

    Mavic Kysriums are not built in such a way that we would expect them to require stress relieving and tensioning before being put into service. They should be good to go fromt he factory. If this wheel was giving issues within the first hundred miles, I suspect that something wasn't right with it from the get go.

    If the mechanic took his time to contact Mavic and came to the rebuild conclussion as a consequence of that communication, I suspect he may have done his best to achieve correct tension for what may have already been a dodgy rim.

    Let's not throw the guy under the bus...
    I don't know. This here tells me that his mechanic screwed up.

    Quote Originally Posted by robortiz59 View Post
    I need new wheels, or at least a new rear wheel. Some history: When I first got the bike, the rear wheel true would only last about 100 miles. I would bring it to my mechanic (who works out of his garage, so he doesn't sell bikes or any significant amount of parts or accessories) and he would true them up. After doing this three times he suggested we needed to try something different. He had called Mavic and they told him the wheels should support my weight. He suggested the wheels might not have been built carefully at the factory. He suggested he could rebuild them, though couldn't gaurantee this would fix the issue. I agreed to try it. The fix worked. In the last three years I only had the wheels trued as part of the annual tune up.

    All this changed today. When I asked the mechanic to true the rear wheel as part of some other service he informed me the wheel is developing tiny cracks around the nipples.
    The type of damage described is caused by one of two things, the rim was defective in some way (some rims are known to have this problem although I'm not aware of this being an issue with Ksyrium wheels) or the spoke tension was too high for the rim. Based on his description of events it looks like the latter.
    Throw the mechanic under the bus or not, but it sure looks to me like he messed up.
    Last edited by Homeyba; 05-30-12 at 09:20 PM.
    It doesn't get harder, you just go slower.

  10. #10
    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    Peter White will curmugeon you to death and then build you 48 spoke mavic open pros. Blech. (this is just a personal opinion from reading some of his writing on the subject of large amateurs cycling)

    These look pretty awesome, I'd get a set in about 10 seconds if my wife isn't looking:

    http://www.boydcycling.com/50mm-carbon-clinchers/

    psimet.com can also build you a custom set (he posts on the road forum a lot)

    chainlove had a set of Reynolds DV 48mm carbon wheels on sale yesterday for 899, as did real cyclist.

    You really need to cough up your budget and reveal your plans to attain 260 again because I think that will affect things a bit.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Homeyba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
    Peter White will curmugeon you to death and then build you 48 spoke mavic open pros. Blech. (this is just a personal opinion from reading some of his writing on the subject of large amateurs cycling)...
    He is a bit of a curmudgeon but he's not really that bad. I'm in about the same range as the OP and he built me a set of 32/28 spoke Mavic OP Ceramic Brevet wheels and a friend of mine a set of Zipp 404 hoops (24/22spoke), the front laced to a Schmidt dynohub with no complaints. He used to have a picture of that Zipp wheel on his website.
    It doesn't get harder, you just go slower.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homeyba View Post
    I don't know. This here tells me that his mechanic screwed up.



    The type of damage described is caused by one of two things, the rim was defective in some way (some rims are known to have this problem although I'm not aware of this being an issue with Ksyrium wheels) or the spoke tension was too high for the rim. Based on his description of events it looks like the latter.
    Throw the mechanic under the bus or not, but it sure looks to me like he messed up.
    I'm not try to pick an arguement on this. But, I do seem to recall that there was an out break of mavic ksyrium rims cracking a couple years ago. I dont know. I may be mistaken.

    Ksyriums have been one of those wheels that I've heard plenty of clydes recommend, but, that I've always had a hard time believing to be up to the job beyond event days or limited milage. If the OP was at 260lbs when the cracks occured, I believe he would ......

    I just went to roadbikereview and did a quick survey of the reports there. It seems that about 2-3 reports out of every page of 15 report cracks in the rear rim, without regard to rider weight. Quite a few of those reports have been written after as little as 2,000-4,000 miles. Based on that, I would say, "let's not blame the mechanic".
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Homeyba's Avatar
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    Those types of cracks don't occur because of the rider’s weight, they occur because the spokes were over tightened. That's why your quick survey came up with cracked rims regardless of rider weight. A percentage of their wheels are coming from the factory over tightened. When the OP's wheel was new the spokes were not tensioned properly (too loose or uneven tensioning) from the factory resulting in the wheel going out of true repeatedly. If the mechanic would have retensioned the wheel properly back then the problem would have been solved.
    What this whole thing suggests to me is that Mavic has a bit of a QA problem on their machine-built wheels (big surprise). When the mechanic rebuilt the wheel he over tightened the spokes, simple as that. Bigfred, we may have to agree to disagree on this one.
    It doesn't get harder, you just go slower.

  14. #14
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    Thanks everybody for your constructive feedback.

    Regarding budget: I was hoping to stay below $1,000.

    Regarding my weight: the 260 lb peak was the result of an extended period of forced inactivity following rotator cuff surgery. I don't plan on being there again. But, I do struggle to maintain my weight. So, getting back to 240 isn't out of the realm of possibility.

    Regarding my mechanic: I have 100% confidence in him. As Bigfred pointed out, he actually took the time to call Mavic. Part of the conversation with them included verifying the proper torque specs.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Seattle Forrest's Avatar
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    Oh. Well, your budget changes everything.

    I love my Boyds.
    Don't believe everything you think.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homeyba View Post
    Those types of cracks don't occur because of the rider’s weight, they occur because the spokes were over tightened. That's why your quick survey came up with cracked rims regardless of rider weight. A percentage of their wheels are coming from the factory over tightened. When the OP's wheel was new the spokes were not tensioned properly (too loose or uneven tensioning) from the factory resulting in the wheel going out of true repeatedly. If the mechanic would have retensioned the wheel properly back then the problem would have been solved.
    What this whole thing suggests to me is that Mavic has a bit of a QA problem on their machine-built wheels (big surprise). When the mechanic rebuilt the wheel he over tightened the spokes, simple as that. Bigfred, we may have to agree to disagree on this one.
    We can probably agree that Mavic "may" have a quality issue with their wheels. I'm unsure of whether it is a design, manufacturing or build issue. Without knowing more I'm personally not going to worry about what the OP's mechanic could or should have done. As if it is a design or manufacturing issue, there is little that he could have. However, the possibility certainly exists that the rims have met a premature demise.

    What I've learned from my quick search is that I'm removing Ksyrium Elites from my list of possible event wheels. I'd read mostly positive reviews of them here on the clyde forum. But, when riders of all weights are reporting a 10-20% failure rate with less than 5000 miles, they don't sound like they'll meet my expectations.

    I'm actually a bit disappointed by that.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  17. #17
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    With a $1000 budget you've got a lot of options. What are your expectations of these wheels? Will they be your one and only, do everything wheels? Do you participate in timed events and pay attention to your times? Or, are you out riding for fitness and pleasure?

    If the later, I'd say go with what would be considered a good set of "training" wheels. 32h, 3X, 14/15db laced up with any of the several V profile rims that are favoured around this forum.

    If you're paying attention to your times on measured courses, in comparison to others, then something lighter or racier starts to become a consideration. How light and racey will determine whether you need two sets of wheels or whether a single set would suffice, with a slightly lowered life expectancy.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  18. #18
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    I only compete with myself. And I don't expect to have more than one set of wheels. So, I need a durable, all around solution.

  19. #19
    Climbers Apprentice vesteroid's Avatar
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    I have seen sets of mavic kysirium sl on eBay in that price range.

    You have almost limitless options on pro wheel builder (non carbon) for that udget and on the bicycle wheel warehouse site I don't think they have a stock set over that price.

    Heck at excel sports out of boulder you could even get a set of power tap wheels for just a little more....shoot I have seen zipp 101 for almost that cheap.

    Bottom line is I don't think you need to get sucked into,the normal Clyde rim choices. If you are going to stay under 220 and want lit rims, there are plenty of durable choices.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by vesteroid View Post
    I have seen sets of mavic kysirium sl on eBay in that price range.

    You have almost limitless options on pro wheel builder (non carbon) for that udget and on the bicycle wheel warehouse site I don't think they have a stock set over that price.

    Heck at excel sports out of boulder you could even get a set of power tap wheels for just a little more....shoot I have seen zipp 101 for almost that cheap.

    Bottom line is I don't think you need to get sucked into,the normal Clyde rim choices. If you are going to stay under 220 and want lit rims, there are plenty of durable choices.
    But, the OP has suggested that it wouldn't be surprising for him to get back up to 240. And, he's stated he isn't competing against anyone, but, himself.

    With that in mind, I'd suggest a wheel that does fall into the "normal clyde" category. Not because he "has" to have it, but, because it will provide an excellent solution, provide excellent durability and fill his needs. The "light weight" side of the equation doesn't sound like it's as big a concern as "quality".

    I was reminded a few weekends ago that "good wheels" aren't just "clyde wheels" when a fairly light female (<150lbs) rolled up to our group ride on a set of DT Swiss 585's. Her's were probably 24h or 28h, not 32h. I asked how she liked them and she, "a lot". Why did she choose them, "Because, I wanted a good reliable set of wheels that I don't have to worry about." End of conversation about wheels, and moved onto who was going where.

    If someone isn't racing against others, I really don't understand the importance of light weight in wheels, with one exception. That being the psycological aspect of "wanting" to go ride your bike and feeling proud of what you have. If bling makes you want to ride, then it may be worth it. But, personally, I like having quality components that I have confidence in and that aren't going to let me down 30 miles from home or in the long run cost me an arm and leg to maintain.

    If you were to take a look at the group rides around here that meet in the early am, you would find an awful lot of very expensive bikes being ridden with some pretty low end hoops. For those riders the good wheels only come out for "events".

    The messege I've heard from more than one shop has been, "What do people expect? They buy these light wheels then ride them as daily trainers and expect that they aren't going to wear quicker than something heavier? But, hey, as long as they're willing to pay for them."

    I heard a guy on Saturdays ride say that he had been quoted $28 for an aluminum replacement spoke for his Mavics. That was the spoke, no labour. I wonder what they charged him for the install? And, if they bothered to detention the entire wheel and bring it back up, or, just put the spoke in and tightened until things looked true.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by robortiz59 View Post
    I only compete with myself. And I don't expect to have more than one set of wheels. So, I need a durable, all around solution.
    Balancing the weight/durability equation is something only you can do for yourself. There are lots of right answers depending upon how you personally weight the variables.

    Most of the well endorsed "clyde" options are going to be more than adequate for you at 225-240, presuming they've been built by a "good" wheelsmith. Something I believe there aren't as many of as some would like to believe (I've yet to meet a mechanic who said he wasn't very good and recommend I take my business to someone else).

    Factory builds I still don't trust. For the same reason that you're looking for something other than K Elites. They seem to get good reviews, up to a point. But, the stories of them lasting 20,000+ miles, while not nonexistent, aren't that plentiful.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  22. #22
    zpl
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    Bike Fun Fanatic zpl's Avatar
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    When I went to have a rear wheel custom built, I thought I'd want a 36-spoke Open Pro, but my wheelbuilder talked me into a 36H velocity Fusion rim instead. The Fusion is just a tiny bit heavier than the Open Pro but significantly stronger. Not as deep as a Deep V but has a shallower V-section. You can choose between 32H vs. 36H as you desire, but given your weight fluctuation and that you ride aggressively, I think you'd get more durability out of a 36H 3x setup.

    I've been really happy with my wheel.

    Scott

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    Climbers Apprentice vesteroid's Avatar
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    Fred, you clearly have it all figured out, and know exactly what the op should do. I therefor retract all my advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vesteroid View Post
    Fred, you clearly have it all figured out, and know exactly what the op should do. I therefor retract all my advice.
    I'm sorry if that's sarcasm you're resorting to. I'm not intending to pick an "arguement". But, am more than happy to engage in "debate" on the subject of wheels. They're something close to me at the moment, as I lost a couple months to wheel issues and mechanics who behaved like even larger know it alls than myself.

    Healthy and respectful debate of these topics is what gives the clyde forum value. If we were to all reply, "I like/think/use XXX" without engaging each other in discussion, the forum would be a worthless pile of endorsements for every product produced. It's only through engaging with one another and sharing information and more importantly real world experience that we begin to assemble a true picture of some of these highly subjective topics
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  25. #25
    Senior Member socalrider's Avatar
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    I would have a custom set built.. The spoke count for the most part at your weight is not that relevant.. I ride 20 - 28 - 32 and 36 spoke wheels.. all with no issues.. You need to have someone competent build them and keep them tensioned well and they will last a long time..

    I am partial to dt swiss rims - just love them but also have wheels like the Velocity Fusion - Deep V and the lighter weight Aerohead rims...

    If you want a lighter weight wheelset - there is a tradeoff.. Sometimes they are less reliable vs something like a dt swiss rr465 or Velocity Fusion.. If you want a beefy set of wheels that will take anything you can throw at it - look to the Deep V or Dt swiss RR585..

    For 1000.00 you can get a great set of wheels..

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