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Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) Looking to lose that spare tire? Ideal weight 200+? Frustrated being a large cyclist in a sport geared for the ultra-light? Learn about the bikes and parts that can take the abuse of a heavier cyclist, how to keep your body going while losing the weight, and get support from others who've been successful.

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Old 08-13-12, 03:50 PM   #1
OldChipper
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School me on wheels

OK, so I was on another forum talking about wheels, spoke count and weight and it was recommended that I come over here and get schooled direct from the horses' mouth (pun intended).

So, I'm a Clyde (hate that term and would prefer Percheron) at 205-208 lbs and 6'1" largely because I continue to successfully pursue other sports that require upper body strength.

I've been riding light wheelsets with low spoke count (Zipp 404s, SRAM S30 AL Sprints, Mavic Ksyrium Elites) for a couple of years and many thousands of miles and have yet to experience a problem. I'm told that I need to come here and hear about all the horror stories of wheels exploding under heavy riders.

So let's hear it! Tell of your troubles with light wheels (or your success with them like I've had). I realize that none of these will last as long as my old school 36 spoke wheels from the '90s (when 32 spokes were felt to be too few for heavy riders), but I'm willing to trade some durability for some added fun factor.

Educate me.
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Old 08-13-12, 03:56 PM   #2
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Hey OldChipper,

First, welcome to C/A. We are a friendly group here.

Next, at your weight, from what I've read here time and time again, you aren't too heavy for most wheels, except MAYBE the cheapest entry level wheels. BTW, I'm 230 and ride FSA RD-60's. If I don't blow those up, I'll be truly amazed.

Finally, it is my opinion that you should ride what you have. You haven't had any problems - why assume all of a sudden everything is going to explode on you. Sounds like you have some really nice wheels. Ride them until you have problems, then worry about it.

TL : DR - Ride more, worry less!

Enjoy!

Now, with that said - smart people will be along shortly with good advice!
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Old 08-13-12, 04:04 PM   #3
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if you have been riding what you have posted with no runs, drips, or errors, you dont need any schooling.
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Old 08-13-12, 04:05 PM   #4
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We just had this discussion a few weeks ago:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=#post14443800

Long story short, at your weight you shouldn't have any problems with wheels unless you treat your road bike like it's an MTB.
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Old 08-13-12, 04:07 PM   #5
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I'm about the same weight & height, from the HW I gathered a while back, we should stay away from climbing wheel ie clincher in the sub 1400gram or tubs under 1kilo

I have custom built Kinlin 300's on DT hubs (28/28). Very solid build at about 1500grams. Also been running on cheap planet X 50mm tubs (20/24) for crits. Only $600 for the set so if I smash them into a curb during a race it won't hurt the wallet too bad. They are 1200ish grams built with sapim CXray spokes. VERY solid and no flex under climbs or sprints. I haven't put on the Kinlins since I got them 6 months ago. No problem w/ every day use and haven't have a flatted yet I have stans in the tubes as well. Holds well to bunny hopping pot holes n junk as well.

Sorry I don't have a rim explosion story for you
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Old 08-13-12, 05:57 PM   #6
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Thanks for all the responses and the link. I apologize, I should have searched first. You folks have pretty much confirmed what I thought/believed. There has been a huge evolution in equipment, especially since i last played this game seriously, and it seems not all beliefs/expectations have caught up yet. I appreciate everyone sharing their experience and advice.
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Old 08-13-12, 06:03 PM   #7
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I think it's more your ability as a rider, vision to be precise, unweighting the wheels for impacts makes a ride a ride.
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Old 08-13-12, 06:16 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
...I've been riding light wheelsets with low spoke count (Zipp 404s, SRAM S30 AL Sprints, Mavic Ksyrium Elites) for a couple of years and many thousands of miles and have yet to experience a problem. I'm told that I need to come here and hear about all the horror stories of wheels exploding under heavy riders. ...
Educate me.
Ok, I'll edukate you. The issue is that you're (or your friends are) looking at the wrong issue. The reason that you don't have problems with your lightweight, low spoke count wheels has nothing to do with the weight or the number of spokes your wheels have. It has everything to do with the fact that all those wheels are hand built by people who know how to build wheels. The reason so many "clydes' have wheel problems here is because they are mostly on lower end mass produced wheels. If all their wheels were built with care they wouldn't have problems either.

I ride wheels similar to you and have had the same experience and I ride 6-10k miles/year. In fact, I have a Zipp 404s on my tandem and a set for my single bike that I've done two RAAM's on. My Topolino's have 30k+ miles on them with no broken spokes. It's not the wheel, it's the wheel builder that makes a wheel!
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Old 08-13-12, 06:28 PM   #9
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Thanks for all the responses and the link. I apologize, I should have searched first.
No worries. We all like to hear ourselves talk!
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Old 08-13-12, 07:01 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
OK, so I was on another forum talking about wheels, spoke count and weight and it was recommended that I come over here and get schooled direct from the horses' mouth (pun intended).

So, I'm a Clyde (hate that term and would prefer Percheron) at 205-208 lbs and 6'1" largely because I continue to successfully pursue other sports that require upper body strength.

I've been riding light wheelsets with low spoke count (Zipp 404s, SRAM S30 AL Sprints, Mavic Ksyrium Elites) for a couple of years and many thousands of miles and have yet to experience a problem. I'm told that I need to come here and hear about all the horror stories of wheels exploding under heavy riders.

So let's hear it! Tell of your troubles with light wheels (or your success with them like I've had). I realize that none of these will last as long as my old school 36 spoke wheels from the '90s (when 32 spokes were felt to be too few for heavy riders), but I'm willing to trade some durability for some added fun factor.

Educate me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
Thanks for all the responses and the link. I apologize, I should have searched first. You folks have pretty much confirmed what I thought/believed. There has been a huge evolution in equipment, especially since i last played this game seriously, and it seems not all beliefs/expectations have caught up yet. I appreciate everyone sharing their experience and advice.
I thought Percherons were slightly larger than Clydesdales on average? :-)

Anyhow.


What beliefs/expectations do you believe haven't caught up with advances?

If it's wheels, you have to remember that you're "just" into the clyde realm and virtually all of us here will suggest that the wheels you've mentioned should be adequate for the needs of someone your weight. It's when riders start getting over 235lbs or so that their experiences seem to become more "mixed". Some report no problems with realatively light weight wheels (sub 1,600grm) while others suffer nothing but issues. I suspect that the majority of issues are experienced by individuals with factory, machine built stock wheels that were never properly prep'ed for the service they were going to see. They go through some frustrations with an LBS and eventually end up with a set of 32 o 36 spoke wheels that the average LBS mechanic can keep together for them and which can provide reliable riding, which is after all, all they're after.

Wheels like your 404's are far from the average that you would find a clyde on. At least as a daily rider or training set. The S30's are a realatively new possibility and so far it doesn't seem like there are many 235lb+ riders on them to report success or failure. The ksyrium elites have been one of mavic's stouter offerings for quite some time. And while they seem to work reasonably well for many, they also seem to go through occassion batches of issues with regard to rims cracking, regardless of rider weight.

Basically, at your weight, as you already know, what you've got should be adequate. And, those wheels could/should work for riders a bit heavier. At some point north of the 255-265lb mark is when most of the factory wheel systems seem to become less reliable and you start seeing more and more riders adopting conventional 32 or 36 spoke designs in order to provide reliability. Especially if those riders are doing much out of the saddle climbing.

For reference I'm roughly 250lb and 6'5". I'm riding on 32h 3X DT 585's and 36h 3X Velocity Deep V's as every day training wheels that I expect to get 2,500-5,000 miles out of between services. I don't currently have any event wheels. Although, there are an older set of Mrs. Fred's 20 spoke Rolf Vectors hanging unused in the garage. I've ridden on those only once! That was enough. While they might offer some aero advantage, they aren't what I would describe as laterally stiff under me and they felt as though they were stressed to fiddle string tightness and about to assplode at the mear suggestion of any abuse. Plus, they aren't light. If/when I do go looking for some eventing wheels the 404's are probably at the top of my list, as well as Enve 45's. I would also love to have a set of group ride, quick day, wheels like a pair of 101's or your Sram S30 al sprints. I feel like I probably need to get down to 235lb or so before those represent a realistic option. Even then, I know of one rider in that size range that has been pretty tough on a set of 101's and broken more than one or two rear spokes in their first season. However, he's also probably been riding them as his daily training wheels.

Alot of the wheel equation comes down to three primary factors: weight, use, expectations. Lighter clydes, that either don't do much climbing, don't generate loads of lateral torque or ride on smooth roads and are willing (like yourself) to sacrifice a little bit of durability can get satisfactory results from a lot of light wheels. Breaking the remainder of the Clyde class into 235+, 265+ and 300+ classes, include a substantial amount of standing climbs, rough country and mountain roads and an increased concern for durability and decreasing concern with regard to performance and you naturally see conventional higher count wheels as the favored choice.

And then, there are plenty of clydes riding 45mm deep carbon rims at 16mph, 'cause, they like having good equipment and it motivates them to go ride their awesome bike.

And so concludes the gospel according to Fred. ATMO
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Old 08-13-12, 07:09 PM   #11
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Ok, I'll edukate you. The issue is that you're (or your friends are) looking at the wrong issue. The reason that you don't have problems with your lightweight, low spoke count wheels has nothing to do with the weight or the number of spokes your wheels have. It has everything to do with the fact that all those wheels are hand built by people who know how to build wheels. The reason so many "clydes' have wheel problems here is because they are mostly on lower end mass produced wheels. If all their wheels were built with care they wouldn't have problems either.

I ride wheels similar to you and have had the same experience and I ride 6-10k miles/year. In fact, I have a Zipp 404s on my tandem and a set for my single bike that I've done two RAAM's on. My Topolino's have 30k+ miles on them with no broken spokes. It's not the wheel, it's the wheel builder that makes a wheel!
And this! ^^^^^

Although, I would be surprised to learn that the Ksyrium Elites and Sram S30's are "hand built". I would expect that they are hand finished to a greater degree of consistancy than the average stock wheels on a new bike.

Homeyba and everyone else, if you have had good experiences with Sram S30's (any of the various models) or Zipp 101's, or know of 235lb+ clydes who have, I'm very interested in hearing about them. Given the occassional nature of the rim issues with Mavics and the incredibly expensive service of them here in NZ, I'm leaning away from them as my potential quick/interim event wheels and towards the former.
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Old 08-13-12, 09:43 PM   #12
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From what I know of the history of horse breeds (not much), Percherons were originally bred as war-horses vs. Clydes that were bred solely for draft (or draught if you prefer

Will keep you all posted on my experience with the SRAMs. FWIW, the SRAMs occasionally feel a bit "squirmy" in hard corners vs. the Zipps which corner like I'm on rails.
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Old 08-13-12, 09:50 PM   #13
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I have purchased some Mavic Ksyrium Elites as an upgrade for my new bike which came with Mavic Ksyrium Equipe's....I'm hoping the positive reviews that they have gotten over at SuperClyde.com that they will work well for me...if they don't, I won't be to happy.
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Old 08-14-12, 01:54 AM   #14
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As someone who hovers around the 250lb mark +/-20lbs, I have used 2 wheel sets over the last 10 years, the first a set of Dura-Ace, low spoke count wheels that did me fine for 8 years with no problems at all! Until my bike was stolen....

For the last 2 years I have been riding a Trek Madone with Bontrager Aeolus 5.0's. When I got the bike, I was assured these wheels have no weight limit at all, but I have had a number of problems with them. I had them replaced under warranty once, and then after having had the new ones about 6 months, my local TRek shop is submitting a claim to replace the replacements! Will seriously look at alternatives even though I get new replacements. Still I will stick to Carbon and am leaning towards the ENVE range, probably the 6.7's.
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Old 08-14-12, 04:19 AM   #15
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I have purchased some Mavic Ksyrium Elites as an upgrade for my new bike which came with Mavic Ksyrium Equipe's....I'm hoping the positive reviews that they have gotten over at SuperClyde.com that they will work well for me...if they don't, I won't be to happy.
I had some Ksyrium Elites. I don't have any complaints about their strength against my weight per se. I'm 192cm / between 88 and 91 kg. which is just the entry point of Clyde range.
However, I came to believe Ksyrium are not the wheel for me after they gave me speed wobbles.

I did some tests and it only occurred during a stiff breeze from the right rear, and only while traveling about 40kph and upward, and then only when I stood up and then sat down. Something like that. Still frightening, and that was on flat surfaces. It may have also had something to do with bladed spokes in the side wind. But it was clearly a speed wobble in the wheel as I could alleviate it by opening the quick release on the rear brake.

I think these wheels are lacking in lateral strength on the right rear (drive) side, where the spokes are almost vertical. However, knowing that they do have high resale value, I sold 'em for a nice used price after riding them for 5 years. I had some 32 spoke wheels built with DT competition (round) spokes / ultegra hubs / mavic CXP 33 rims. So far these are doing well.

In addition to the speed wobble concerns, I came to think that the Mavic hubs weren't the best over time and I'd be better off with Shimano. They seem to roll better. I also prefer the ease of maintenance and availability of repair parts to be had with the 32 spoke wheels. A friend broke a Ksyrium spoke on one of our rides and had a less than ideal time the remaining 60km that day. Not sure how he got it fixed or how long it took.
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Old 08-14-12, 09:41 AM   #16
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Something to keep in mind - the new Zipp Firecrest 404s have a 250lb weight limit and they're pretty low spoke count. I want a set so bad I can taste it, but I can also taste the blood in my mouth when my wife hits me with a bat for buying them. Ha ha.

At 205 you'd make a cute little clyde! Svelte! Debonair!

A lot of the "wisdom" dispensed on some other forums aren't worth the paper they're written on. Take care of your gear and it will take care of you.
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Old 08-14-12, 10:57 AM   #17
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yeah I have been drooling over the G3 45mm powertap wheelsets. My LBS just sent me a 20% off coupon and I called them and asked if that applied to wheelsets...he said it did....thats a major deal, I mean I have never seen these wheels anywhere near that cheap....

However that wont reduce the pain of the bat when my wife hits me even if it was 20% off...3199.00 - 20% still = ass kicking for me!
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Old 08-14-12, 12:26 PM   #18
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Just tell her you need them so you can keep up with her. You catch more flies with honey... etc etc.
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Old 08-14-12, 04:40 PM   #19
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oddly enough we agreed last weekend I could buy a trainer.

I want to make sure I have no excuses for winter or otherwise weather impeding days, so I wanted a trainer.

I ended up ordering a computrainer when they put them on sale this week.

they claim if I follow their program I can increase my speed by 2-3 mph....well see. If I do however, look out next year, I may actually hang with the B boys!
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Old 08-14-12, 04:59 PM   #20
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Heck if that works I'm getting one too. You'll have to file a detailed report some time this winter!
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Old 08-14-12, 06:21 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by libero View Post
I had some Ksyrium Elites. I don't have any complaints about their strength against my weight per se. I'm 192cm / between 88 and 91 kg. which is just the entry point of Clyde range.
However, I came to believe Ksyrium are not the wheel for me after they gave me speed wobbles.

I did some tests and it only occurred during a stiff breeze from the right rear, and only while traveling about 40kph and upward, and then only when I stood up and then sat down. Something like that. Still frightening, and that was on flat surfaces. It may have also had something to do with bladed spokes in the side wind. But it was clearly a speed wobble in the wheel as I could alleviate it by opening the quick release on the rear brake.

I think these wheels are lacking in lateral strength on the right rear (drive) side, where the spokes are almost vertical. However, knowing that they do have high resale value, I sold 'em for a nice used price after riding them for 5 years. I had some 32 spoke wheels built with DT competition (round) spokes / ultegra hubs / mavic CXP 33 rims. So far these are doing well.

In addition to the speed wobble concerns, I came to think that the Mavic hubs weren't the best over time and I'd be better off with Shimano. They seem to roll better. I also prefer the ease of maintenance and availability of repair parts to be had with the 32 spoke wheels. A friend broke a Ksyrium spoke on one of our rides and had a less than ideal time the remaining 60km that day. Not sure how he got it fixed or how long it took.
Please explain speed wobbles....& how fast you were going when this happened...like 15mph-20mph...if it was more than that it probably won't effect me much. But your review has me wondering if i should even stick them on my bike. I could still sell them as new at this point since i got them off of ebay from a seller who said they were new bike take-offs..I have not used them yet. I was hoping they would be a bomb proof wheelset like they were advertised to me.
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Old 08-14-12, 06:50 PM   #22
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oddly enough we agreed last weekend I could buy a trainer.

I want to make sure I have no excuses for winter or otherwise weather impeding days, so I wanted a trainer.

I ended up ordering a computrainer when they put them on sale this week.

they claim if I follow their program I can increase my speed by 2-3 mph....well see. If I do however, look out next year, I may actually hang with the B boys!
I got a computrainer last winter. If you have any questions shoot me a PM.
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Old 08-14-12, 07:13 PM   #23
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cool...i qill paisan.

I could have used it this week, last two days I got off work to rain... first rain here since june, guess I cant complain but its frustrating when you want to go ride. I have spent the last two nights putting windoze on my mac so I have something to work the software with. I have an old tv that has a hdmi port that I am hoping to find a way to hook my mac up to, for a large monitor. They not only gave me 100 off, the gave me 3 of the real course videos, and financed it at zero interest for a year....couldnt pass all that up.
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Old 08-14-12, 07:37 PM   #24
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I got almost the same deal but only 1 video. The real course video was cool but you have to check out ERG Videos. They will help you pass the hours in winter hours like nothing else. They put you in the middle of group rides as a rider and as your rider goes to the front your resistance increases, as he drops to the back it decreases. Hills , downhills, sprints. It's like being in a group and it is all based on % of your FTP. They really are amazing things. I've got a few other third party software programs that I I really like but I just got my RM1 upgrade and I'm not sure how they will work with that so I'll hold my recommendations until I try them out. Your CT will come with RM1 in the box. I'm still on the old software suite but have RM1 on disc.
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