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  1. #1
    Senior Member magohn's Avatar
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    Fellow Clydes - Please Stop the Negativity to New or Returning Members.

    My fellow clydes. I am saddened to be writing such a thread but I feel it has to be said. We are becoming "angry" and unwelcoming to new,returning or existing members. Over the summer I have noticed a definite trend of passively-insulting or outright insulting other members. Of course, this is all hidden behind the guise of "tough love" but I for one can see when people cross the line and its being crossed.

    I do not want to call out individuals as they may be embarrassed or (more likely) go into a tailspin of "you are a troll" type childish retorts. I dont have the time or interest to repeatedly respond and defend in such a thread.

    When I joined the clydes in 2010 I was unsure and embarrassed to be asking 'fat' questions but the responses were always supportive, helpful and most of all non-judgmental. Please people lets get back to those days. If it means a couple of people get into a sulk and leave the group -so be it. We are better off without the negativity. They rarely contribute any information on actual RIDING anyways.

    Anyways, just my 2c.
    Last edited by magohn; 08-22-12 at 10:35 AM.

  2. #2
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by magohn View Post
    My fellow clydes. I am saddened to be writing such a thread but I feel it has to be said. We are becoming "angry" and unwelcoming to new,returning or existing members. Over the summer I have noticed a definite trend of passively-insulting or outright insulting other members. Of course, this is all hidden behind the guise of "tough love" but I for one can see when people cross the line and its being crossed.

    I do not want to call out individuals as they may be embarrassed or (more likely) go into a tailspin of "your a troll" type childish retorts. I dont have the time or interest to repeatedly respond and defend in such a thread.

    When I joined the clydes in 2010 I was unsure and embarrassed to be asking 'fat' questions but the responses were always supportive, helpful and most of all non-judgmental. Please people lets get back to those days. If it means a couple of people get into a sulk and leave the group -so be it. We are better off without the negativity. They rarely contribute any information on actual RIDING anyways.

    Anyways, just my 2c.
    So, your idea of a positive community is people leaving the Clyde forum, but only the people you deem "negative." Sounds like political correctness to me.

  3. #3
    Senior Member SlipKid65's Avatar
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    FWIW, I am a newbie here, and (so far) I have felt welcomed by this community. Everyone's been great!

  4. #4
    Pedal Pusher/Pundit mcrow's Avatar
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    I have to agree. This section of the forums has gotten to be a little too snarky and a certain element of the users have gotten a little high and mighty. IMO, the purpose of this forum is to support Clydes not to rake them over the coals when they don't turn out to be perfect. Whether you are Clyde that needs to lose weight or just a big dude, being a clyde presents some unique problems when it comes to cycling and I think we should focus on trying to be supportive, helpful and at times have a sense of humor about the situation.

    If you get to a point where someone annoys you or you feel it is a waste of time to read their threads, simply don't post in them. There is no need to just pop into a thread and trash someone, it accomplishes nothing but aggravating more people.

  5. #5
    Senior Member magohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlipKid65 View Post
    FWIW, I am a newbie here, and (so far) I have felt welcomed by this community. Everyone's been great!
    Trust me its coming - you just have to disagree or call out the wrong person and the heavens will open. Kindergarten all over again.

  6. #6
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlipKid65 View Post
    FWIW, I am a newbie here, and (so far) I have felt welcomed by this community. Everyone's been great!
    The attitude you bring has a lot to do with it. The OP overlooked that fact in his initial post.

  7. #7
    Pedal Pusher/Pundit mcrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil_B View Post
    So, your idea of a positive community is people leaving the Clyde forum, but only the people you deem "negative." Sounds like political correctness to me.
    Neil there is a difference between telling it like it is and being rude, purposely mean, and not contributing to the discussion and being politically correct. People can express their thoughts without being completely negative and rude.

  8. #8
    Senior Member nevermore1701's Avatar
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  9. #9
    Senior Member magohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrow View Post
    I have to agree. This section of the forums has gotten to be a little too snarky and a certain element of the users have gotten a little high and mighty. IMO, the purpose of this forum is to support Clydes not to rake them over the coals when they don't turn out to be perfect. Whether you are Clyde that needs to lose weight or just a big dude, being a clyde presents some unique problems when it comes to cycling and I think we should focus on trying to be supportive, helpful and at times have a sense of humor about the situation.

    If you get to a point where someone annoys you or you feel it is a waste of time to read their threads, simply don't post in them. There is no need to just pop into a thread and trash someone, it accomplishes nothing but aggravating more people.
    +1 Some people have been around here a long time and built a reputation on accomplishments that have long since slipped. That's fine we all slip but to then attack new or returning members with gusto is unacceptable to me.

    As I have previously stated, I dont get involved in cat-fights but something has to be said.

  10. #10
    Senior Member SlipKid65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magohn View Post
    Trust me its coming - you just have to disagree or call out the wrong person and the heavens will open. Kindergarten all over again.
    LOL..... Yeah, I've been participating in forums for both work and hobbies for years..... Amazing how brave/thin skinned some folks are when they're behind a keyboard. It doesn't take me too long to find the ignore button....

  11. #11
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    I'll chime in here as well, now. There is a difference between "tough love" and ripping someone a new one. Going to "tough love" isn't a default 1st response that's appropriate or wanted. Let's start with support, and can always escalate if truly needed, but the "tough love" post is kind of like firing a ***, in that you can't unshoot the bullet. Treat your posts toward members that are more sensitive with that in mind.

    Thanks in advance for your cooperation in this. I don't want this to turn into another iteration of the Road Cycling Forum,, and want it to remain a safe place for our members that need the safety zone.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  12. #12
    Senior Member magohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    I'll chime in here as well, now. There is a difference between "tough love" and ripping someone a new one. Going to "tough love" isn't a default 1st response that's appropriate or wanted. Let's start with support, and can always escalate if truly needed, but the "tough love" post is kind of like firing a ***, in that you can't unshoot the bullet. Treat your posts toward members that are more sensitive with that in mind.

    Thanks in advance for your cooperation in this. I don't want this to turn into another iteration of the Road Cycling Forum,, and want it to remain a safe place for our members that need the safety zone.
    +1000

  13. #13
    Pedal Pusher/Pundit mcrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magohn View Post
    +1 Some people have been around here a long time and built a reputation on accomplishments that have long since slipped. That's fine we all slip but to then attack new or returning members with gusto is unacceptable to me.

    As I have previously stated, I dont get involved in cat-fights but something has to be said.
    I just think that picking on someone who is obese and/or new to the forums because they don't know something or seem to have a hard time sticking to things is just dumb. Obviously the biggest problem everyone who is overweight has is sticking to a good nutritional plan and activity program. There is not one single person that I know that lost weight and didn't fall off the wagon multiple times before being successful. There is not one single newbie to anything I've been involved with that didn't have questions that seem like common knowledge to the experienced person. If you are losing or have ever lost weight or been new at something you are completely lying to yourself if you think you were not like the newbies when you started.

    I know that I've managed to lose about 30 pounds to this point but I fell of the wagon a few times along the way, for a few months at a time. In the beginning I tried to lose weight and quit several times over several years. It seems to be sticking now because I figured out both how metabolism works and have the mental part of it under control. While many years ago I lived car free, did a lot of my own bike repairs and was also really into MTB riding, I'm a newbie in a lot of ways again do to bike technology. I'm probably going to say some dumb things about bikes, but not on purpose just a fact of catching up on the new stuff.

    All I know is we need to remember where we all started and that there are many ups and downs along the weight loss road and for some people it may take several years of trying before things click. So, get off the high horse and help our fallen brothers or at worse simply don't attack them.

  14. #14
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrow View Post
    Neil there is a difference between telling it like it is and being rude, purposely mean, and not contributing to the discussion and being politically correct. People can express their thoughts without being completely negative and rude.
    You are assuming that anything "negative" or strongly worded must be without value. If I were to post that a diet of treacle was the best method of losing weight, and defend it repeatedly, or claim anyone over 201 pounds needed to ride a stone bike, people would be quite within their rights to make negative replies.

  15. #15
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Neil, let's not pull the strawman arguments out. Critique is fine, as long as it's understood that there are limits we don't cross. It's not an argument you have to "win", here. What's being asked is just for a bit more sensitivity on some member's part, and extend the courtesy that you'd like to get as well as give. If your critique causes the member to discount all you say later, because you were too harsh, you've lost an opportunity to help that member later, forever and always.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant

  16. #16
    Pedal Pusher/Pundit mcrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil_B View Post
    You are assuming that anything "negative" or strongly worded must be without value. If I were to post that a diet of treacle was the best method of losing weight, and defend it repeatedly, or claim anyone over 201 pounds needed to ride a stone bike, people would be quite within their rights to make negative replies.
    I said completely negative and rude. Negativity on it's own isn't always bad, but it's also accompanied by rudeness. You can have a negative opinion but people tend to be over zealous with the negativity, sometimes in order to puff out their own chest or assert some sort of superiority over the target of the opinion.

    You can simply say "I disagree and here's why" or "IMO the best way is".

    IMO, there is simply no call for tearing someone apart over their failings, if you feel that you've done what you can to help or that the person isn't taking your advice you can simply not post in response to them.

  17. #17
    Senior Member magohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil_B View Post
    You are assuming that anything "negative" or strongly worded must be without value.
    I dont understand this assumption...

  18. #18
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrow View Post
    If you get to a point where someone annoys you or you feel it is a waste of time to read their threads, simply don't post in them.
    Zactly! When I get to that point, I won't even respond to their sweetest kindest post. It will go nowhere knowing what's up the road so it's best to avoid the poster all together. Heck, don't forget about the ignore button. I have about 7 members on ignore and the entire 41 deleted from my menu for the simple reason I have no interest in reading what any of them have to say.

    BTW, any member that feels the same about me, save us all some trouble and click me into ignore as well!

  19. #19
    Senior Member squirtdad's Avatar
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    all i know is that I have seen 2 threads locked (one was unlocked after some editing and cool down) recently and you never used to see threads locked in this forum. I expect thread locking in A&S, not this forum.
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  20. #20
    Pedal Pusher/Pundit mcrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    Neil, let's not pull the strawman arguments out. Critique is fine, as long as it's understood that there are limits we don't cross. It's not an argument you have to "win", here. What's being asked is just for a bit more sensitivity on some member's part, and extend the courtesy that you'd like to get as well as give. If your critique causes the member to discount all you say later, because you were too harsh, you've lost an opportunity to help that member later, forever and always.
    I agree 100%.

    I l'll also add that insulting, bashing or getting snarky with people because you don't think they are taking your advice or applying it doesn't help anyone and only stirs up more drama. If people feel like their advice is being ignored or not applied then simply stop giving that person your advice and leave it at that. Believe it or not, your ideas will not always click with everyone else.

  21. #21
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
    Neil, let's not pull the strawman arguments out. Critique is fine, as long as it's understood that there are limits we don't cross. It's not an argument you have to "win", here. What's being asked is just for a bit more sensitivity on some member's part, and extend the courtesy that you'd like to get as well as give. If your critique causes the member to discount all you say later, because you were too harsh, you've lost an opportunity to help that member later, forever and always.
    I oftentimes find that "negativity" is what punctures the wall of denial. In my own case, I had people politely suggest losing weight was a good idea. It took a night in the hospital for the penny to drop. That trip was pretty "negative", I would say.

    As you know from here and elsewhere, I'm a free speech advocate, so anything smacking of political correctness I find to be wrong. If good ideas fight with bad ideas, the good wins.
    Last edited by CbadRider; 08-22-12 at 10:20 AM. Reason: Removed unnecessary remark

  22. #22
    Senior Member Jeff Pedals's Avatar
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    It's a great day to be alive & to be able to ride a bike ...... have a great day & ride if your riding later everyone
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  23. #23
    Galveston County Texas 10 Wheels's Avatar
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    I have had the privilege of knowing 31 diabetics that have since passed away.

    Tough Love early in there life may have saved them.

    They may not accept it the time.. Wake Up calls are never fun.
    I am not afraid to Tough Love someone if will help.
    [SIZE=1][B]What I like about Texas[/B]
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    Set F1re To The Ra1n ( NY Night Rain Ride)
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  24. #24
    Senior Member Allen55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil_B View Post
    You are assuming that anything "negative" or strongly worded must be without value.
    No one is "assuming" that your comments were without value, but to bring things up and throw them in a persons face just because you think that you are smart enough to look up a thread from last year is ridiculous. No one wanted to name names here, but dammit, I have been a victim of your rhetoric, Neil, and frankly it has done way more bad than good with me. After getting accosted by you and a few others in the last post that I made, and a lot of other posts that you have seemed to find your way into and attacking me for no reason at all, I had already decided to leave this place. I didnt want to be a problem here and upset the balance because I went on a binge 8 months ago. This seems to be a common thread with you, Neil. My binge that I had. Frankly, there are lot of other days that have NOT been binges. In fact, that pizza and candy bar and coke was the LAST time I did something like that. Instead of asking what happened and being genuinely concerned, you have attacked me over it constantly since then. The fact is, Neil, we cant all be as perfect as you. We all make mistakes (except you).

    My problem with that binge was stress. Stress is a trigger for eating for me, as well as a lot of other people. I posted that here on this forum because I thought that I was among people who have been or were currently going through something similar. It has been the bane of my existence here since then. I made a mistake. I ****ed up. I realized that and tried to fix it. I posted it here to hold myself accountable with like minded people who would understand. You and a few others took it and ran with it though.

    Im a big guy. Im a tough guy. I dont let things bother me too much because that adds stress to my life which is the one area that I am the weakest. Stress is my downfall, and here, on these forums where you would expect a little support from people who have been there done that, I get stress. Not from everyone, but from YOU and a few of your cronies.

    I mentioned earlier about leaving these forums for good. Not because I cant ride my bike because of health reasons, or because of being on a truck and not having a regular schedule to ride, but because of YOU! That's right, Neil B. Like I said, Im not an overly sensitive person, but I can only take so much. I only wish you could see the amount of PM's that I have gotten from people claiming their disgust at your behavior and your comments towards me. Not just your comments, but those of your little group here who think you are elite in the clyde forums. Because of those PM's I decided to just stay and not to cause any waves here...not to give you the satisfaction. Im not going anywhere. And I have a confession to make -

    I DID eat that pizza, I DID eat that candy, I DID drink that Coke that day. I was there. I tasted it all. I felt the fullness. I hated myself for doing it. I admit it. Now, can you just leave it alone and stop interjecting it in to every post I make? I did it all. Will I ever do that again? who knows? Im human. I have my triggers. Stress being one of them. Maybe Ill get stressed out really bad one day and eat a lot...then Ill turn around and do the right thing to try to erase what I did. Im not perfect. Im not going to NOT make mistakes. But I WILL bounce back from those mistakes.

    /rant.
    Allen
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  25. #25
    Loves to suffer freighttraininguphill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
    all i know is that I have seen 2 threads locked (one was unlocked after some editing and cool down) recently and you never used to see threads locked in this forum. I expect thread locking in A&S, not this forum.
    You are right! I used to think this place was the friendliest, most laid-back, supportive subforum on BikeForums. No more. Even one of my threads got locked. Since I had a feeling mine may have been one of the first ones to be locked in here, I PMed the mods and had it deleted, then resolved to avoid any future discussions of music vs. no music in ride videos. I can be pretty opinionated on that subject and I know I screwed up by mentioning it in the first place.

    Unfortunately, it appears that the damage has been done. I sense some changed attitudes towards me, and not for the better either. Also, seeing new posters get so harshly criticized for making mistakes is unsettling. This is the reason that my uber-Clyde friend didn't post his own videos when he started making them. He has seen what I and other people go through on forums, and he wants no part of it. His job is stressful enough. He doesn't want to deal with stupidity and stress when he's not at work.

    He had me post the videos because, at over 400 pounds, he thought it might be inspiring to other people who are trying to lose weight and get stronger. I'm pretty proud of his progress so far. I think his videos are more impressive than mine. After all, I'm climbing at only 20-30 pounds overweight (150 lbs or so for a 5' 4" female). He is climbing at 200 lbs overweight. I am convinced that he will be a pretty good climber when he reaches his weight loss goal.

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