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  1. #1
    Climbers Apprentice vesteroid's Avatar
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    Vegan/vegitarian/less meat

    I participate in a wine forum on a regular basis. They have a food section as well where people discuss all types of food / diet related issues as well as what wine they had with the food.

    Over the last few months a couple of vegans have started posting about their diets and why they chose the lifestyle. One of them in particular caught my attention because she was solely focused on the health benefits and how they have positively impacted her life. She pointed me to a few movies online and I watched them, and now believe there is something to this.

    I know many of us are here for health reasons, and diet is also a frequent topic of conversation.

    I watched fat, sick, and nearly dead, and forks over knives.

    I am actually doing a 30 day vegan challenge while starting my half marathin training. I am NOT doing this for any cause, or personal belief, but rather as an experiment to see if in fact I do feel better, and do improve on my fitness.

    I also learned a few things about the impact mass meat production has and want to participate in reducing that load on the planet.

    I was just curious if anyone had seen these movies, or tried the diets, and what their experiences were if they had?

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    Senior Member maidenfan's Avatar
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    Read "The China Study". That alone will convert a fair share of people. I eat meat, but only quality meat (grass fed, veg diet, etc) and only in small to moderate amounts. Imo, I think a lot of the problems with meat come from what the "meat" is ingesting via man and food, not necessarily the meat itself. That said, if I dont eat a LOT (usually about 2 bags of Costco kale and spinach a week) of fresh vegetables, especially green/purple leaf veggies, I feel like crap.
    "Others don't understand because I train every day of my life as they have never trained a day in theirs." Alexandr Karelin - the most dominating Greco-Roman wrestler - ever

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    Meh, meat is good for you. Eat everything in moderation and one day it'll be "good for you" one day it'll be "bad for you", I really don't listen to that rubbish anymore. If it tastes good I'll eat it, but not over eat it.

    Daven

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    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    I am not a Clyde but do have to watch what and how I eat lest I start packing on bad weight but do not subscribe to any absolutes when it comes to diets.

    I practice a low carb diet that is relatively free of processed foods, low in refined sugar, and rich in meats, cheese, dairy, fruits, and vegetables.

    I know healthy vegetarians, vegans, and omnivores... key seems to be eating for your body type and eliminating all the processed crap.

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    Senior Member mike's Avatar
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    The vast majority of vegans have absolutely no idea how to eat a healthy vegetarian diet. They think that avoiding meat = healthy. WRONG.

    The nutjobs at PETA attack young audiences, just like the tobacco industry, trying to influence kids before they are smart enough to think for themselves. Unfortunately, many of these youths see some grotesque photos and then just stop eating meat. That doesn't work.

    Meat provides very important PROTEINS. Vegetables provide amino acids which are not the same protein chain and not assimilated in the body like meat. If you are going to take meat out of your diet, you really need to study in-depth how to replace it - and it isn't as easy as just eating tofu and lentils. You can even feel the power provided by the different proteins - Beef, pork, poultry, fish - Beef provides a much higher intensity of strength, stamina, and drive compared with fish, for example.

    Honestly, you can spot the vegan man in any crowd - he is the guy that looks like he was castrated; a steer, not a bull. Ya, ya, ya, you can show photos of lean muscled vegans, but put them up against a beef eating man and he will get slapped down. The strength, power, and testosterone between a vegan man and a meat-eater is completely different. I teach fighting and self defense and the vegans might look strong, but when you put bone to bone, muscle to muscle, they are flimsy at best. Vegans are the guys who get sand kicked on them at the beach and have their girlfriends taken away from them like in the comic book ads.

    So, before you get brainwashed by the whole vegan thing, do some more research. Hang out with some vegan men and compare them pound for pound against a meat eater. The difference is undeniable.
    Last edited by mike; 11-25-12 at 10:31 AM.
    Mike

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    Bicycle Commuter Bluish Green's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good experiment, vesteroid. Good for you for being open-minded and dedicated enough to try it out and see for yourself. I have been concentrating on avoiding processed stuff, HFCS, etc., which has been working well with just some adjustments to our grocery shopping, use of new recipes, and such. Reducing meat would be a bigger challenge for us, but there are some good arguments in favor of it. If you post your results, I will be interested to read them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike View Post
    The vast majority of vegans have absolutely no idea how to eat a healthy vegetarian diet. They think that avoiding meat = healthy. WRONG.

    The nutjobs at PETA attack young audiences, just like the tobacco industry, trying to influence kids before they are smart enough to think for themselves. Unfortunately, many of these youths see some grotesque photos and then just stop eating meat. That doesn't work.

    Meat provides very important PROTEINS. Vegetables provide amino acids which are not the same protein chain and not assimilated in the body like meat. If you are going to take meat out of your diet, you really need to study in-depth how to replace it - and it isn't as easy as just eating tofu and lentils. You can even feel the power provided by the different proteins - Beef, pork, poultry, fish - Beef provides a much higher intensity of strength, stamina, and drive compared with fish, for example.

    Honestly, you can spot the vegan man in any crowd - he is the guy that looks like he was castrated; a steer, not a bull. Ya, ya, ya, you can show photos of lean muscled vegans, but put them up against a beef eating man and he will get slapped down. The strength, power, and testosterone between a vegan man and a meat-eater is completely different. I teach fighting and self defense and the vegans might look strong, but when you put bone to bone, muscle to muscle, they are flimsy at best. Vegans are the guys who get sand kicked on them at the beach and have their girlfriends taken away from them like in the comic book ads.

    So, before you get brainwashed by the whole vegan thing, do some more research. Hang out with some vegan men and compare them pound for pound against a meat eater. The difference is undeniable.
    Funny post!

  8. #8
    Senior Member goldfinch's Avatar
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    I think that there are a wide variety of diets that can work for a person. My spouse is a lifelong vegetarian and does just fine. Some in his family are thin vegetarians and some are fat. A meatless diet doesn't necessarily mean a healthy or unhealthy diet. My personal preference is for meat in my diet and I find it a bit easier to regulate my food intake when it includes some meat and includes far less starch than my husband's diet includes. But it may be magical thinking.

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    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike View Post
    The vast majority of vegans have absolutely no idea how to eat a healthy vegetarian diet. They think that avoiding meat = healthy. WRONG.

    The nutjobs at PETA attack young audiences, just like the tobacco industry, trying to influence kids before they are smart enough to think for themselves. Unfortunately, many of these youths see some grotesque photos and then just stop eating meat. That doesn't work.

    Meat provides very important PROTEINS. Vegetables provide amino acids which are not the same protein chain and not assimilated in the body like meat. If you are going to take meat out of your diet, you really need to study in-depth how to replace it - and it isn't as easy as just eating tofu and lentils. You can even feel the power provided by the different proteins - Beef, pork, poultry, fish - Beef provides a much higher intensity of strength, stamina, and drive compared with fish, for example.

    Honestly, you can spot the vegan man in any crowd - he is the guy that looks like he was castrated; a steer, not a bull. Ya, ya, ya, you can show photos of lean muscled vegans, but put them up against a beef eating man and he will get slapped down. The strength, power, and testosterone between a vegan man and a meat-eater is completely different. I teach fighting and self defense and the vegans might look strong, but when you put bone to bone, muscle to muscle, they are flimsy at best. Vegans are the guys who get sand kicked on them at the beach and have their girlfriends taken away from them like in the comic book ads.

    So, before you get brainwashed by the whole vegan thing, do some more research. Hang out with some vegan men and compare them pound for pound against a meat eater. The difference is undeniable.
    What a ridiculous post. I've never met a vegan who didn't take their diet extremely seriously - it kind of comes with the territory...you don't just wake up and decide to go vegan without giving it some thought. It's extremely difficult, animal products are in nearly everything.

    And there is nothing whatsoever difficult about getting the proteins and nutrients you need from a vegan diet...it's actually much easier in many ways than having to buy and cook meat, if you are willing to prepare your own food exclusively. That's the tough part.

    It's incredibly ironic that you criticize vegans for being ignorant and post this drivel.

  10. #10
    Neil_B
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    I tried vegetarian for a week when I was at my low weight. I wasn't 'pure' about it, since I did eat fish, and had more restrictions than usual since I was avoiding dairy too. The result was that after a week I was very low on energy both at work and at the gym. However, as soon as I had meat again - a turkey hoagie! - I immediately felt better and my energy level was back to normal the next day.

    The only person I ever knew who attempted a vegan lifestyle also smoked. So much for health benefits....

  11. #11
    Senior Member rebel1916's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    What a ridiculous post. I've never met a vegan who didn't take their diet extremely seriously - it kind of comes with the territory...you don't just wake up and decide to go vegan without giving it some thought. It's extremely difficult, animal products are in nearly everything.

    And there is nothing whatsoever difficult about getting the proteins and nutrients you need from a vegan diet...it's actually much easier in many ways than having to buy and cook meat, if you are willing to prepare your own food exclusively. That's the tough part.

    It's incredibly ironic that you criticize vegans for being ignorant and post this drivel.
    That's exactly the problem. They are focused primarily on avoiding animal products and not on getting proper balanced nutrition. I eat meat, but less than your average American. Balance is the key to a healthy diet.

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    My wife is a vegan, and I eat meat (although alot less than I used to).

    We both feel much better and have more energy. It has no effect on our weight at all. If you want to be a vegan, it's important to eat correctly. So many of the PETA knuckleheads don't do it right. If you eat stupid, it will effect you - regardless if you eat meat or not.

    Sometimes it so hard to have a science background in the US, because you find yourself surrounded by people who don't understand the world around them.
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  13. #13
    Climbers Apprentice vesteroid's Avatar
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    The china study is covered in depth in the movie forks over knives (I listed above). It alone was enough evidence for me to keep looking into this.

    i think it will have a positive effect on me. I will learn few things, and I bet I become a better cook..as you do have to make most of your own food. I have always loved veggies, but have been traditional in making meats the center of meals and using veggies as sides. May be interesting to see that reversed.

    funny to see all the anger on both sides of this lifestyle, mike is a perfect example perfect example of what I don't like about the meat side, and PETA is a perfect example of what I don't like about the plant side. I suspect I will end up somewhere in the middle.

    anyway I am going to do it for 28 more days and see how I feel. If I find anything interesting, I will post back. If I fail miserably and woof down a cheeseburger, I'll tell on myself too

  14. #14
    Senior Member mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    What a ridiculous post. I've never met a vegan who didn't take their diet extremely seriously - it kind of comes with the territory...you don't just wake up and decide to go vegan without giving it some thought. It's extremely difficult, animal products are in nearly everything.

    And there is nothing whatsoever difficult about getting the proteins and nutrients you need from a vegan diet...it's actually much easier in many ways than having to buy and cook meat, if you are willing to prepare your own food exclusively. That's the tough part.

    It's incredibly ironic that you criticize vegans for being ignorant and post this drivel.
    Look, don't take my word for it. Go vegan for six month, then wrestle a meat eater. You will get pinned to the mat and have to have help getting back up off the mat. I see it time after time after time. I'm not making this stuff up. I see it AND I DID go vegan for two years. I could run faster, but when I went man to man on strength, there was no comparison. The meat eaters had the strength and the stamina.

    When I finally went back to eating meat, the difference was immediate and intense. By the second day of eating meat again, I literally felt like I could run through a brick wall. I don't know what it is like to be a female vegan, but I do know the difference between being a male vegan vs a male meat eater and a man going vegan is like getting himself clipped.

    You don't have to eat a lot of meat, but even a little will make a man stronger, tougher, have more stamina, and be able to handle cold weather better.
    Mike

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    Chainstay Brake Mafia
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    I'm just over the weight limit to be a 'clyde' and also a vegetarian for over 10 years. I drive a pedicab and challenge anyone to say I'm not healthy

    You don't "need" to eat meat at all. However, the transition period for many meat eaters can sometimes be tough. You have to learn which foods to eat that don't leave you feeling like you're missing something in your diet.


    also, this

    Last edited by frantik; 11-25-12 at 02:59 PM.
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    I used to be an almost-vegetarian years ago and found it easy to maintain weight that way. So, I've convinced my better half to cut back on meat and have more vegetarian meals. Really, a "serving" of meat is very small, about the size of a deck of cards. You don't need to eat very much at all to get enough vitamin B12, which is the only thing you can't get from a strictly vegan diet.

    Interestingly, our ancient (18.5 year old) cat gets B12 shots every three weeks or he completely loses his appetite and stops eating. You'd think that an animal as purely carnivorous as a cat wouldn't ever have that problem, but his kidneys are starting to go, and that's where the stuff is apparently metabolized. Perhaps that explains why vegetarians in general are lighter than meat eaters - less appetite from lower B12 levels?

  17. #17
    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike View Post
    but I do know the difference between being a male vegan vs a male meat eater and a man going vegan is like getting himself clipped.
    I'm waiting for the person anecdotes on what it feels like to "get clipped"

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    Climbers Apprentice vesteroid's Avatar
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    I had this really catchy comeback all written up for mike, then I remembered about the pig in mud joke...so I deleted it...

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    Climbers Apprentice vesteroid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil_B View Post
    I tried vegetarian for a week when I was at my low weight. I wasn't 'pure' about it, since I did eat fish, and had more restrictions than usual since I was avoiding dairy too. The result was that after a week I was very low on energy both at work and at the gym. However, as soon as I had meat again - a turkey hoagie! - I immediately felt better and my energy level was back to normal the next day.

    The only person I ever knew who attempted a vegan lifestyle also smoked. So much for health benefits....
    i have heard that Neil, anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. I think that's why the "trial" is 30 days, so you can make sure you get over that.

    been on it since Friday morning and just did a 32 mile ride...felt fine, even set a pr or two on strava.

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    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frantik View Post
    I'm just over the weight limit to be a 'clyde' and also a vegetarian for over 10 years. I drive a pedicab and challenge anyone to say I'm not healthy

    You don't "need" to eat meat at all. However, the transition period for many meat eaters can sometimes be tough. You have to learn which foods to eat that don't leave you feeling like you're missing something in your diet.


    also, this

    That was great... I have lots of vegan and vegetarian friends.

    This too is funny...


  21. #21
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by vesteroid View Post
    i have heard that Neil, anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. I think that's why the "trial" is 30 days, so you can make sure you get over that.

    been on it since Friday morning and just did a 32 mile ride...felt fine, even set a pr or two on strava.
    Understood. But since I was at my low weight and in the best health of my life I saw no benefit to feeling off, especially since it proved nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    That was great... I have lots of vegan and vegetarian friends.

    This too is funny...

    that picture is almost obligatory for any thread on vegetarianism
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    Senior Member tergal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike View Post
    The vast majority of vegans have absolutely no idea how to eat a healthy vegetarian diet. They think that avoiding meat = healthy. WRONG.

    The nutjobs at PETA attack young audiences, just like the tobacco industry, trying to influence kids before they are smart enough to think for themselves. Unfortunately, many of these youths see some grotesque photos and then just stop eating meat. That doesn't work.

    Meat provides very important PROTEINS. Vegetables provide amino acids which are not the same protein chain and not assimilated in the body like meat. If you are going to take meat out of your diet, you really need to study in-depth how to replace it - and it isn't as easy as just eating tofu and lentils. You can even feel the power provided by the different proteins - Beef, pork, poultry, fish - Beef provides a much higher intensity of strength, stamina, and drive compared with fish, for example.

    Honestly, you can spot the vegan man in any crowd - he is the guy that looks like he was castrated; a steer, not a bull. Ya, ya, ya, you can show photos of lean muscled vegans, but put them up against a beef eating man and he will get slapped down. The strength, power, and testosterone between a vegan man and a meat-eater is completely different. I teach fighting and self defense and the vegans might look strong, but when you put bone to bone, muscle to muscle, they are flimsy at best. Vegans are the guys who get sand kicked on them at the beach and have their girlfriends taken away from them like in the comic book ads.

    So, before you get brainwashed by the whole vegan thing, do some more research. Hang out with some vegan men and compare them pound for pound against a meat eater. The difference is undeniable.

    I pray to someones god that this post is sarcasm

    for the Vegan/vegitarian, i think you can only stick with it if you enjoy it . I eat meat for dinner normally twice a week. I try to make only 1 of those red meat, the other will be fish .

    Eat what you want as long as it is in moderation you are taking a step in the right direction.....
    Last edited by tergal; 11-25-12 at 07:08 PM.
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    Senior Member maidenfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike View Post
    The vast majority of vegans have absolutely no idea how to eat a healthy vegetarian diet. They think that avoiding meat = healthy. WRONG.

    The nutjobs at PETA attack young audiences, just like the tobacco industry, trying to influence kids before they are smart enough to think for themselves. Unfortunately, many of these youths see some grotesque photos and then just stop eating meat. That doesn't work.

    Meat provides very important PROTEINS. Vegetables provide amino acids which are not the same protein chain and not assimilated in the body like meat. If you are going to take meat out of your diet, you really need to study in-depth how to replace it - and it isn't as easy as just eating tofu and lentils. You can even feel the power provided by the different proteins - Beef, pork, poultry, fish - Beef provides a much higher intensity of strength, stamina, and drive compared with fish, for example.

    Honestly, you can spot the vegan man in any crowd - he is the guy that looks like he was castrated; a steer, not a bull. Ya, ya, ya, you can show photos of lean muscled vegans, but put them up against a beef eating man and he will get slapped down. The strength, power, and testosterone between a vegan man and a meat-eater is completely different. I teach fighting and self defense and the vegans might look strong, but when you put bone to bone, muscle to muscle, they are flimsy at best. Vegans are the guys who get sand kicked on them at the beach and have their girlfriends taken away from them like in the comic book ads.

    So, before you get brainwashed by the whole vegan thing, do some more research. Hang out with some vegan men and compare them pound for pound against a meat eater. The difference is undeniable.
    Dave Grossman would be proud bro
    "Others don't understand because I train every day of my life as they have never trained a day in theirs." Alexandr Karelin - the most dominating Greco-Roman wrestler - ever

  25. #25
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
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    I know plenty of wimpy meat-eaters. Think there might be right and wrong ways to do anything?
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
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