Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Training plans?

  1. #1
    internettubes engineer st3venb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Mesa, Az.
    My Bikes
    2012 Felt Z85
    Posts
    305
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Training plans?

    Background -- I average about 115-130 miles a week, I mix in intervals and climbing into my rides... but at this point I feel like I'm just riding to ride... and not with any real goal / accomplishment in mind.

    My wife is a marathon runner, and she's always following a training routine that gives her focus and direction... She keeps asking me if I am ever going to follow such a plan, but I literally have no idea.

    I have set some goals related to my cycling
    1. Have fun.
    2. Lose weight.
    3. Get my racing license, and move from cat5 -> cat4.
    4. Be competitive in local criteriums and Road races. (sub goals here are; finish Tour de Scottsdale (68 miles) in sub 5 hours, and finish Tour de Tucson (111 miles) in sub 7 hours.)


    Do any of you guys follow plans, or any sort of training that sort of lines up with what I'm doing? Do any of you guys have suggestions?

    edit: I'm sorry I didn't add that I am training using a HRM, on my Edge 500. I would love to get a Powermeter, but $$$ is too tight currently for me to do that.
    Last edited by st3venb; 11-28-12 at 11:32 AM.

    Is that all you've got?
    mrclydesdale.com :: my blog!

  2. #2
    got the climbing bug jsigone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Escondido>>>>San Diego, CA
    My Bikes
    smashed Supersix
    Posts
    6,887
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you start a training plan for racing you might not like it. There are plenty of plans in the web. But I'd suggest doung intervals once a week. Ride balls out for 2 rides solo orin with friendsthe for 90 min eachwalk day then one long ride like with a club for a couple hours on the weekend.

    The short rides will keep your power up and the club ride will keep you on your toes and make you hold those power threshold longer.

  3. #3
    Climbers Apprentice vesteroid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,473
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In my opinion, unless you are willing to invest in a power meter or at the minimum a hr meter, training on your own is pretty difficult. It's very hard to be honest with yourself about how much work you are putting in.

    as an example, I did a local climb on Sunday with my wife. It's not all that long or steep and was about the hallway point of my ride so I decided I was going to push and get a new pr on strava. I was convinced I had blown away my previous record when I got to the top. However when I got home and looked on strava, I was to the second the exact same as my previous time.

    over the summer I was training with a coach. What I saw was mostly tempo rides during the week, or working at 80% of my FTP for given intervals. In the beginning the intervals were short. Say 3 sets of 3 minute work with 3 minute rest, then ride below 60% for the remainder of the ride. Over time they increased to 3 x 20 with 5 minute rest. Once a week he would give me death intervals (my name) where I would do short intervals to 100-120% FTP. On weekend I had a long ride that started around two hours and worked up to over 4 by the end of the summer. He would throw in one rest day and one easy spin day in the week usually.

    i know many people don't train with power or think its a waste. I am in the other camp. It's amazing to me to see me start a big climb. I can hold say 220 for about an hour, but then I just watch my power taper off to the 180 range. I simply can't hold that power any longer. Odd thing is even when I do hit that wall and drop back to the 180 range, my hr doesn't really go down, so if I was only looking at that, I am not sure i would realize how much I had slacked off.

    Also watching my peak 5 minute, and 20 minute power increase over the summer was kind of fun.

    in addition what js said about competitive groups is oh so true. I got stupid and went out with a mixed a and b grouped for a 30 mile ride...I learned what pain was all about that day. One little mistake, you select the wrong gear, you don't stand quickly enough on a little rise, you don't pay attention to a break, and you are shot off the back with little hope of ever reeling in that lead group.

    i hit new highs in all my power ranges that day only because I was so focused on hanging with the skinnies. Had I been solo, I would have thought that too hard and not continued to push.

    i agree with your wife, find a plan. I would however suggest a base building plan for the winter then start a more race oriented plan prior to spring.

    if you have a trainer, or hr meter check out trainerroad.com. For 10 bucks a month they give you workouts, a complete training plan, and analysis of your efforts. I love that software...but be prepared for the suck that comes with training indoors...I hate that part...an hour on the trainer is like two outdoors (to me anyway). Those guys that post they did 3 and 4 hours on a trainer are forking nuts

  4. #4
    Senior Member mkadam68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    30 minutes North-West of Los Angeles.
    My Bikes
    2012 MotorHouse road bike. No. You can't get one.
    Posts
    3,570
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vesteroid View Post
    In my opinion, unless you are willing to invest in a power meter or at the minimum a hr meter, training on your own is pretty difficult. It's very hard to be honest with yourself about how much work you are putting in.
    No, not difficult. Just disadvantaged compared to those that do own & use them properly. Racers for 100+ years didn't have either of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by st3venb View Post
    I have set some goals related to my cycling
    1. Have fun.
    2. Lose weight.
    3. Get my racing license, and move from cat5 -> cat4.
    4. Be competitive in local criteriums and Road races. (sub goals here are; finish Tour de Scottsdale (68 miles) in sub 5 hours, and finish Tour de Tucson (111 miles) in sub 7 hours.)
    Upgrading from 5 to 4 is somewhat easy (used to be easier): just finish 10 races. But, that entails not getting dropped big time.

    The best thing you can do is follow Botto's rules:

    1. Find some group rides, fast group rides. Sit in the back.
    2. Don't get discouraged if/when you get dropped from those group rides.
    3. Go back the following week and do the fast group ride again.
    4. If you're dropped a 2nd time, repeat steps 2 & 3
    5. Once you're comfortable with the group and pace (and vice versa), take some pulls.
    6. Once you're comfortable taking pulls, try some attacks (if it's that kind of group ride).
    7. Once you're comfortable with steps 5 & 6, it's time to enter a race.
    8. At your first race, repeat steps 1-6, but substitute 'race' for 'group ride'.

    I would only add, during the off-season, make sure you're getting in the miles. For me personally, I need about 10-12 hours a week to be fit for racing, and that's minimum. 14-16 if I want to be active in the race or competitive.

    Good luck, let us know how it goes.

    Visit The C-Blog : the blog about cycling.

  5. #5
    Climbers Apprentice vesteroid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,473
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sure but 100 years ago people were dying from diseases that don't even exist any more.

    there are hr based power meters available now that are within most people's financial reach.

    and don't under estimate the difficulty of joining a fast group ride when you think you are new and out of shape....getting dropped off the back by a half a mile in the first ten minutes isn't a group ride anymore.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    339
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Things may be a bit different over in the US but over here in Oz, I would encourage you to just get out there and race from the start. If you were a complete beginner, then I wouldn't suggest it, but you have some sort of fitness so I would recommend it. The lower grades for us are very diverse in terms of ability. There's not much bunch racing due to this, but it certainly gives you a clear indication of just how good you are and how much better you need to be. You can get a feel for who you want to go riding with to improve your own level. Say find out when the Cat 3 (I guess) guys ride and tag along with them.

    For my own purpose, racing keeps me motivated to train harder. Without racing, I just couldn't keep any real level of intensity. You really need some sort of goal. Just getting better is not a real goal, a tangible milestone is what you really need, be that time or weight or any other motivation.

    I read a lot on forums everywhere that riders believe they have to be incredibly good before they can even contemplate racing. They spend a year or more trying to improve their strength and endurance before even getting into racing. I say just get in and have a go. There will be other riders most likely at your level, be that due to age or illness or level of motivation or time constrained. For me, most of the people I raced against in my first year were 20+years older than me. My first race I was middle of the bunch, but worked to win the grade at the end of the season.

    Just go for it and race! Really, what have you got to lose?

  7. #7
    got the climbing bug jsigone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Escondido>>>>San Diego, CA
    My Bikes
    smashed Supersix
    Posts
    6,887
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    you only need 10 starts to move to cat 4, that doesn't mean you have to finish those 10 races. And Cat 4 isn't much safer, just ALLOT ore stupid people to worry about. Cat5 are limited to 50 riders. Cat4 is limited to 130. Master's races are capped at 75-80 around here, I felt like those were the safest.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    NZ
    My Bikes
    More than 1, but, less than S-1
    Posts
    3,539
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    When I got back on the bike last August, it was with the goal of finishing the 153km Taupo Challenge with the minimum amount of suffering. That one goal gave me something to work towards for those 12-13 weeks. With that done I set a goal for this year that was reasonably ambitious.

    And, thus began my regular training and ultimate adoption of a "plan".

    One thing I would caution you on, is that training to be competitive in both criteriums and longer road races will be quite difficult. They involve to a certain degree different levels of output and endurance. That said, the power necessary for the criteriums won't be without use on longer endurance rides.

    I started by recognizing that I needed to be faster and stronger in order to reach my goals and in order to enjoy riding with the local groups. And, I had limited time to train (as I was still employed at that point). So, I implemented an ad hoc High Intensity Interval Training plan of my own creation and based loosely on a few magazine articles. High intensity riding on Tuesdays and Thursdays, spirited group ride on Saturday mornings, easy'ish ride on Sunday or Monday.

    I fell into a couple pits along the way. Subsequently purchased Carmichael's Time Crunched Cyclist and Friel's Training Bible. I'm a bit disappointed in Time Crunched. It wasn't nearly as good as I anticipated. But, it helped fill in a few gaps. Friel's Training Bible is great for educating you on the principles involved, but, leaves you to build your own program.

    Time Crunched promisses that you can be fast and powerful in 6-9 hours per week, BUT, with some restrictions. Your endurance will be good to about 3 hours and I can confirm that, and, your top end gains won't be as long lasting as they would be if built on top of a good base.

    To put some more endurance in my legs for last weeks Taupo Challenge I started doing an endurance block of 300km weeks which means more like 10-12 hours on the bike each week. If you're going to aim for compeating in century length events you'll need to be consistantly putting in those sort of weeks.

    For a first year I would recommend finding a social but spirited riding group and working up through their ranks, starting with the slowest group. Work on strenght and speed as the primary components of power that will benefit you regardless of race length. Then, enter a couple race/rides of varying length and try to figure out what appeals to you and how much time you're going to be able to commit to training going forward.

    By the way, I've got a new goal for next years 153km ride. Then, I'll probably refocus my training toward tt's and track, where I believe a clyde like myself has a better chance of comparing favourably. Instead of road races that infallibly involve plenty of climbing.
    Last edited by bigfred; 11-29-12 at 12:41 AM.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  9. #9
    Senior Member mkadam68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    30 minutes North-West of Los Angeles.
    My Bikes
    2012 MotorHouse road bike. No. You can't get one.
    Posts
    3,570
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jsigone View Post
    you only need 10 starts to move to cat 4, that doesn't mean you have to finish those 10 races. And Cat 4 isn't much safer, just ALLOT ore stupid people to worry about. Cat5 are limited to 50 riders. Cat4 is limited to 130. Master's races are capped at 75-80 around here, I felt like those were the safest.
    At the beginning of 2012, USAC changed that. You do need to finish now. Fortunately, I noticed, the officials rarely pull someone from a 5's race now. (Used to do it no problem.)

    Visit The C-Blog : the blog about cycling.

  10. #10
    got the climbing bug jsigone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Escondido>>>>San Diego, CA
    My Bikes
    smashed Supersix
    Posts
    6,887
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    dang I shoulda upgraded last yr then. I only did one crit this yr and pulled out with 3 to go....and there was 5 crashes in that last 3 laps.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    450
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vesteroid View Post
    over the summer I was training with a coach. What I saw was mostly tempo rides during the week, or working at 80% of my FTP for given intervals. In the beginning the intervals were short. Say 3 sets of 3 minute work with 3 minute rest, then ride below 60% for the remainder of the ride. Over time they increased to 3 x 20 with 5 minute rest. Once a week he would give me death intervals (my name) where I would do short intervals to 100-120% FTP. On weekend I had a long ride that started around two hours and worked up to over 4 by the end of the summer. He would throw in one rest day and one easy spin day in the week usually.

    <snip>

    if you have a trainer, or hr meter check out trainerroad.com. For 10 bucks a month they give you workouts, a complete training plan, and analysis of your efforts. I love that software...but be prepared for the suck that comes with training indoors...I hate that part...an hour on the trainer is like two outdoors (to me anyway). Those guys that post they did 3 and 4 hours on a trainer are forking nuts
    Vesteroid and I have talked back and forth about trainerroad, and for me it's my first experience using power (and I can't afford the $1000+ meters, I'm using their virtual power feature)

    And it's eye opening compared to using a HR monitor. The long intervals at FTP are killer, and I'm fully recognizing how weak I was in long, sustained output at 80-90% of threshold. I've been weeks now working up to the 3 x 20 minute intervals that Vesteroid mentions.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •