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  1. #1
    Senior Member melvinator's Avatar
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    Is My New Wheelset Broken?

    Hello everyone!

    Ok so i bought a new handmade wheelset as states on the forumn below.
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    Last thursday i got a flat on the way to work and when closely examining the tire i noticed it was just getting worn out thus allowing small objects to puncture them. I had a spare 28c tire laying around and decided to put it on the rear wheel till payday and buy a new tire. This morning on way out the door i heard some funky sounds ... i got off the bike and noticed this:




    The rear wheel tire hits the frame.. Out of curiosity i but the 25c tire back on and noticed that the only reason i didnt realize this before is because the tire was skinny enough and gave it clearance.

    What can i do? I have made sure that the wheel was placed correctly two times and is well set on the frame.

    Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Homeyba's Avatar
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    Your wheel doesn't look centered in the frame. Are you sure you have the skewer tight enough? When you spin it does it move to the center or does it rub all the way around. If it rubs all the way around you don't have the wheel in straight. If it rubs and then centers again as it spins your wheel is out of true and you need to have a chat with the guy who built your wheels.
    It doesn't get harder, you just go slower.

  3. #3
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    ^^^^What he said.
    Best thing about cycling is when I'm at work I'm thinking of cycling, when I'm cycling I'm thinking about cycling.

  4. #4
    Starting over CraigB's Avatar
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    I've always found it to be a minor pain to get the rear wheel centered - it's one of those tasks that would benefit from a third hand to pull the wheel all the way back in the dropouts while the other hands close the QR. Some people seem to be able to do it quickly and easily, but not me.

    Your pic shows all the indications of a QR that's not tight enough. One of the first times I changed a rear flat, I thought the skewer was tight, but pedaling torque pulled the drive side of the wheel forward in the dropout, causing the tire to rub on the inside of the non-drive chain stay, similar to your pic. Rubbed the paint right off the stay.
    Craig in Indy

  5. #5
    Senior Member melvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homeyba View Post
    Your wheel doesn't look centered in the frame. Are you sure you have the skewer tight enough? When you spin it does it move to the center or does it rub all the way around. If it rubs all the way around you don't have the wheel in straight. If it rubs and then centers again as it spins your wheel is out of true and you need to have a chat with the guy who built your wheels.
    The wheel is true and stay exactly like that true... i am pretty sure i checked to make sure the wheel was placed correctly and skewers were tight...
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  6. #6
    Senior Member melvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigB View Post
    I've always found it to be a minor pain to get the rear wheel centered - it's one of those tasks that would benefit from a third hand to pull the wheel all the way back in the dropouts while the other hands close the QR. Some people seem to be able to do it quickly and easily, but not me.

    One other thing to watch for is to make sure the QR is tight enough. One of the first times I changed a rear flat, I thought the skewer was tight, but pedaling torque pulled the drive side of the wheel forward in the dropout, causing the tire to rub on the inside of the non-drive chain stay, similar to your pic. Rubbed the paint right off the stay.

    I will try to take more detailed pictures today showing these areas.
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  7. #7
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    If the wheel is true then it's not placed properly. Here is a little hint. When taking your rear wheel off always take it to the smallest cog on the back as for the front you will have to experiment, one of my bikes it works better in the big, the other works better in the small. This way you will always have a reference as to where your chain should be so your gears do not hinder free movement into dropouts. Also make sure if there are any washes on your quick release system they are both on the outside of your dropouts, sometimes they will even go in crocked which also will cause what you pictured. It's safe to bet there is nothing wrong with the wheel or frame.
    Best thing about cycling is when I'm at work I'm thinking of cycling, when I'm cycling I'm thinking about cycling.

  8. #8
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    Well if your wheel is placed correctly and true as you say, seems you don't have clearence for a 28c tire, which seems odd. Is your frame bent?

  9. #9
    Senior Member bhchdh's Avatar
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    Perhaps the rim is not properly centered on the hub, it may only need to be re-centered by a knowleable wheel builder.

  10. #10
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    I would say your dish is off. If it is installed correctly and it spins true, bring it to the builder and have it fixed. If you didnt have them built locally, learn a lesson and find a local builder to redish them.
    I do not claim to be a doctor, scientist, genie, bike magician, good looking, or qualified in any way. The contents of my post are opinions and should be taken as such.

  11. #11
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melvinator View Post
    i am pretty sure i checked to make sure the wheel was placed correctly and skewers were tight...
    Check again. Wheels don't go that far out of dish unless the spokes are very loose. With the bike standing on the ground, release the skewer and jiggle and pull the rear wheel into place while watching the gap between the chainstays. Then tighten the quick release. You should need enough force on the quick release lever to leave an impression on your palm for several seconds.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member goldfinch's Avatar
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    I agree with those who say that your wheel likely isn't in the dropouts correctly. The same thing happened to me last fall when I was fussing with my cousin's bike. No matter what it seemed like the rear wheel would rub on one side. I thought maybe his frame was bent or the wheel goofed up. I walked away. I came back and worked really hard to make sure the wheel was in straight as I tightened the skewer. Then it was fine. You can't just assume you can slam the wheel all the way into the dropouts and have it be right as you tighten the skewer. Follow Cyclocommutes directions. Finesse may be required.

  13. #13
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Pretty much all of the above, there are only two reasons for a tire of proper size to rub like that; either the wheel is not centered correctly, or the wheels dish is off. Since you just had the wheel built, I bet on the firs. Loosen the QR, center the tire by moving it to be centered in between the chain stays, then tighten the QR lever, tight! IF you don't need to use the chain stay for leverage to engage the lever then its not tight enough. If its not tight enough the wheel will pull over to the side due to torque. If you don't understand what I am talking about, go to your local bike shop and have them show you how to properly center and tighten the wheel. Also, that tire is too big for your frame, hate to say it but a 23 or a 25 mm width is all it can handle.

    Good Luck and Good riding.
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  14. #14
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Could be the wheel is out of dish. Take it to a shop and ask them to check the dish for you. It takes about 2 minutes and I bet they don't charge you a dime.

    I once has had a bike that suddenly got hard to pedal ona ride. Turns out the axle broke allowing the wheel to rub the frame. I was new to riding and didn't know enough to tell it was broken but the shop guy knew right away. Ya never know.

  15. #15
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Oh by the way, if you have not figured it out, don't ride with the tire rubbing, you and wear through the frame and ruin it(the frame) that way, or ruin the tire, or both, as well as making it very difficult to pedal.
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  16. #16
    Senior Member Bill Kapaun's Avatar
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    You can check dish by simply reversing the wheel.
    IF the dish is wrong, it'll be on the opposite side.

  17. #17
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
    You can check dish by simply reversing the wheel.
    IF the dish is wrong, it'll be on the opposite side.
    Unless the drop outs are misaligned, but then no wheel would have been right. I used to work for a small framebuilder in the 1970's, and braised up one of my own like that.
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  18. #18
    Senior Member adrien's Avatar
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    Hmmm.

    First, advice here is good so far. Two things to add.

    1. Look at the skewer. Is it bent? is it holding? if external cam, how is the cam bed? It could just be a slipping skewer.
    2. How I center wheels -- I use the brake blocks:
    - shift to smallest cog
    - open QR
    - insert wheel
    - put bike on ground, so frame weight "pushes" skewer axle into drop outs
    - look at the brake block
    - close the brakes to bring them close to the wheel
    - get QR into position to lock down
    - with right hand, put index finger over brake bridge and thumb in the rim. have left hand on the QR
    - align rim visually between brake blocks
    - tighten down QR
    - lift bike, spin wheel, ensure no brake rub
    - adjust as needed
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  19. #19
    Senior Member bassjones's Avatar
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    What bike do you have? Most modern racing frames won't take a 28C. 25C is usually max. Comfort frames will take a 28 max... Even then some tires are narrower than others and one company's 28 may be closer to a 27, while another's is closer to a 29.

  20. #20
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bassjones View Post
    What bike do you have? Most modern racing frames won't take a 28C. 25C is usually max. Comfort frames will take a 28 max... Even then some tires are narrower than others and one company's 28 may be closer to a 27, while another's is closer to a 29.
    I thought about that as the 25's used to rub paint from the inside of my frame on the Lemonds. But looking at his picture, he has plenty of clearance on one side.

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    Post a picture of the rear wheel hub showing how it is mounted into the frame. If any spacers or such are out of place I am betting someone will notice it immediately. If everything is inorder, then just loosening and placing the wheel in the correct position and tightening up the skewer will probably make things right.

  22. #22
    Senior Member melvinator's Avatar
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    alright everyone .... last night i flipped around the wheel on the frame to check dish as someone suggested and it looks the same and in the same position flipped (scratching the rims being the issue)... I did read online that my bike does have a maximum of 25c and prefered 23c ... Yes i get clearance with the 25c but it bugs me that its not perfectly parallel to the frame. Whats odd is that on my old crap alex rims it was parallel. What i did notice was that the old rear wheel rim width was smaller than the deep v making it appear to be more parrallel to the frame and only off but a smidge, but now with the deep v rims as they are a little wider (and probably hell of alot better built and aligned) it makes it appear that way. I really dont know if this might be the issue.
    Last edited by melvinator; 01-23-13 at 07:35 AM.
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  23. #23
    Starting over CraigB's Avatar
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    Can you post a detailed pic of the dropouts? Do they have any adjusting features or are they plain? If it has adjusting bolts make sure they extend the same distance at both dropouts.

    I'm still of the mind that you're not getting the wheel positioned correctly, or that you are, but then your pedaling torque is pulling the drive side forward, which would again go back to the QR either not being tight enough, or being broken in some way. It seems to me that if a) the old wheel centers OK (indicating it isn't an issue with the frame alignment or the dropouts not being parallel), b) the new wheel is true and c) the dish on the new wheel is OK, there's nothing left but incorrect installation of the wheel or a broken skewer. I know on my own bikes I have to really crank the QR down tight to prevent this sort of thing. The previous poster was right who said it needs to be tight enough to require leveraging the lever against the stays with your hand, and leave a pretty good impression in your palm when you close it.
    Craig in Indy

  24. #24
    Senior Member Bill Kapaun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    Unless the drop outs are misaligned, but then no wheel would have been right. I used to work for a small framebuilder in the 1970's, and braised up one of my own like that.
    How does that change the dish?

  25. #25
    Senior Member Bill Kapaun's Avatar
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    One unlikely possibility is a bent axle.
    Hold the wheel up and rotate the axle with your fingers. Does the lock nut "wobble"?

    I notice in your picture, that you have the chain on the big ring.
    IF you also have it on a larger cog, the chain tension will tend to pull the cog side forward.
    Are you PUSHING the wheel back hard enough to FULLY overcome chain tension?
    I usually have the chain at the least tension when removing/installing the rear wheel.

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