Is My New Wheelset Broken?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 181
Bikes: 2012 Marin Larkspur CS Series.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Is My New Wheelset Broken?
Hello everyone!
Ok so i bought a new handmade wheelset as states on the forumn below.
Last thursday i got a flat on the way to work and when closely examining the tire i noticed it was just getting worn out thus allowing small objects to puncture them. I had a spare 28c tire laying around and decided to put it on the rear wheel till payday and buy a new tire. This morning on way out the door i heard some funky sounds ... i got off the bike and noticed this:
The rear wheel tire hits the frame.. Out of curiosity i but the 25c tire back on and noticed that the only reason i didnt realize this before is because the tire was skinny enough and gave it clearance.
What can i do? I have made sure that the wheel was placed correctly two times and is well set on the frame.
Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.
Ok so i bought a new handmade wheelset as states on the forumn below.
HTML Code:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/866209-Deep-V-Rims-(Need-New-Rims!)-Help-Please
The rear wheel tire hits the frame.. Out of curiosity i but the 25c tire back on and noticed that the only reason i didnt realize this before is because the tire was skinny enough and gave it clearance.
What can i do? I have made sure that the wheel was placed correctly two times and is well set on the frame.
Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Central Coast, California
Posts: 3,370
Bikes: Colnago C-50, Calfee Dragonfly Tandem, Specialized Allez Pro, Peugeot Competition Light
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Your wheel doesn't look centered in the frame. Are you sure you have the skewer tight enough? When you spin it does it move to the center or does it rub all the way around. If it rubs all the way around you don't have the wheel in straight. If it rubs and then centers again as it spins your wheel is out of true and you need to have a chat with the guy who built your wheels.
#4
Starting over
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 4,077
Bikes: 1990 Trek 1500; 2006 Gary Fisher Marlin; 2011 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 105; 2012 Catrike Trail
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I've always found it to be a minor pain to get the rear wheel centered - it's one of those tasks that would benefit from a third hand to pull the wheel all the way back in the dropouts while the other hands close the QR. Some people seem to be able to do it quickly and easily, but not me.
Your pic shows all the indications of a QR that's not tight enough. One of the first times I changed a rear flat, I thought the skewer was tight, but pedaling torque pulled the drive side of the wheel forward in the dropout, causing the tire to rub on the inside of the non-drive chain stay, similar to your pic. Rubbed the paint right off the stay.
Your pic shows all the indications of a QR that's not tight enough. One of the first times I changed a rear flat, I thought the skewer was tight, but pedaling torque pulled the drive side of the wheel forward in the dropout, causing the tire to rub on the inside of the non-drive chain stay, similar to your pic. Rubbed the paint right off the stay.
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 181
Bikes: 2012 Marin Larkspur CS Series.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Your wheel doesn't look centered in the frame. Are you sure you have the skewer tight enough? When you spin it does it move to the center or does it rub all the way around. If it rubs all the way around you don't have the wheel in straight. If it rubs and then centers again as it spins your wheel is out of true and you need to have a chat with the guy who built your wheels.
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 181
Bikes: 2012 Marin Larkspur CS Series.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I've always found it to be a minor pain to get the rear wheel centered - it's one of those tasks that would benefit from a third hand to pull the wheel all the way back in the dropouts while the other hands close the QR. Some people seem to be able to do it quickly and easily, but not me.
One other thing to watch for is to make sure the QR is tight enough. One of the first times I changed a rear flat, I thought the skewer was tight, but pedaling torque pulled the drive side of the wheel forward in the dropout, causing the tire to rub on the inside of the non-drive chain stay, similar to your pic. Rubbed the paint right off the stay.
One other thing to watch for is to make sure the QR is tight enough. One of the first times I changed a rear flat, I thought the skewer was tight, but pedaling torque pulled the drive side of the wheel forward in the dropout, causing the tire to rub on the inside of the non-drive chain stay, similar to your pic. Rubbed the paint right off the stay.
I will try to take more detailed pictures today showing these areas.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cobourg Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,206
Bikes: ParleeZ5/Parlee Chebacco/Trek Farley/Cannondale Slice/Burley Tandem
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
4 Posts
If the wheel is true then it's not placed properly. Here is a little hint. When taking your rear wheel off always take it to the smallest cog on the back as for the front you will have to experiment, one of my bikes it works better in the big, the other works better in the small. This way you will always have a reference as to where your chain should be so your gears do not hinder free movement into dropouts. Also make sure if there are any washes on your quick release system they are both on the outside of your dropouts, sometimes they will even go in crocked which also will cause what you pictured. It's safe to bet there is nothing wrong with the wheel or frame.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,237
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18413 Post(s)
Liked 15,536 Times
in
7,328 Posts
Well if your wheel is placed correctly and true as you say, seems you don't have clearence for a 28c tire, which seems odd. Is your frame bent?
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hampton Roads VA
Posts: 1,787
Bikes: '07 Trek 520, '09 Gary Fisher Triton, '04 Trek 8000, '85 Trek 500, '84 Trek 610, '85 Trek 510, '88 Trek 660, '92 Trek 930, Trek Multitrack 700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Perhaps the rim is not properly centered on the hub, it may only need to be re-centered by a knowleable wheel builder.
__________________
"When I hear another express an opinion, which is not mine, I say to myself, He has a right to his opinion, as I to mine; why should I question it. His error does me no injury, and shall I become a Don Quixot to bring all men by force of argument, to one opinion? If a fact be misstated, it is probable he is gratified by a belief of it, and I have no right to deprive him of the gratification."
T. Jefferson
"When I hear another express an opinion, which is not mine, I say to myself, He has a right to his opinion, as I to mine; why should I question it. His error does me no injury, and shall I become a Don Quixot to bring all men by force of argument, to one opinion? If a fact be misstated, it is probable he is gratified by a belief of it, and I have no right to deprive him of the gratification."
T. Jefferson
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Posts: 592
Bikes: Soma Double Cross DC, Salsa Vaya, Redline D440, '87 Schwinn Super Sport
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I would say your dish is off. If it is installed correctly and it spins true, bring it to the builder and have it fixed. If you didnt have them built locally, learn a lesson and find a local builder to redish them.
#11
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,362
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 152 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6219 Post(s)
Liked 4,218 Times
in
2,365 Posts
Check again. Wheels don't go that far out of dish unless the spokes are very loose. With the bike standing on the ground, release the skewer and jiggle and pull the rear wheel into place while watching the gap between the chainstays. Then tighten the quick release. You should need enough force on the quick release lever to leave an impression on your palm for several seconds.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#12
Senior Member
I agree with those who say that your wheel likely isn't in the dropouts correctly. The same thing happened to me last fall when I was fussing with my cousin's bike. No matter what it seemed like the rear wheel would rub on one side. I thought maybe his frame was bent or the wheel goofed up. I walked away. I came back and worked really hard to make sure the wheel was in straight as I tightened the skewer. Then it was fine. You can't just assume you can slam the wheel all the way into the dropouts and have it be right as you tighten the skewer. Follow Cyclocommutes directions. Finesse may be required.
#13
Senior Member
Pretty much all of the above, there are only two reasons for a tire of proper size to rub like that; either the wheel is not centered correctly, or the wheels dish is off. Since you just had the wheel built, I bet on the firs. Loosen the QR, center the tire by moving it to be centered in between the chain stays, then tighten the QR lever, tight! IF you don't need to use the chain stay for leverage to engage the lever then its not tight enough. If its not tight enough the wheel will pull over to the side due to torque. If you don't understand what I am talking about, go to your local bike shop and have them show you how to properly center and tighten the wheel. Also, that tire is too big for your frame, hate to say it but a 23 or a 25 mm width is all it can handle.
Good Luck and Good riding.
Good Luck and Good riding.
#14
Banned.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upland Ca
Posts: 19,895
Bikes: Lemond Chambery/Cannondale R-900/Trek 8000 MTB/Burley Duet tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
Could be the wheel is out of dish. Take it to a shop and ask them to check the dish for you. It takes about 2 minutes and I bet they don't charge you a dime.
I once has had a bike that suddenly got hard to pedal ona ride. Turns out the axle broke allowing the wheel to rub the frame. I was new to riding and didn't know enough to tell it was broken but the shop guy knew right away. Ya never know.
I once has had a bike that suddenly got hard to pedal ona ride. Turns out the axle broke allowing the wheel to rub the frame. I was new to riding and didn't know enough to tell it was broken but the shop guy knew right away. Ya never know.
#15
Senior Member
Oh by the way, if you have not figured it out, don't ride with the tire rubbing, you and wear through the frame and ruin it(the frame) that way, or ruin the tire, or both, as well as making it very difficult to pedal.
#16
Really Old Senior Member
You can check dish by simply reversing the wheel.
IF the dish is wrong, it'll be on the opposite side.
IF the dish is wrong, it'll be on the opposite side.
#17
Senior Member
Unless the drop outs are misaligned, but then no wheel would have been right. I used to work for a small framebuilder in the 1970's, and braised up one of my own like that.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,210
Bikes: Firefly custom Road, Ira Ryan custom road bike, Ira Ryan custom fixed gear
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Hmmm.
First, advice here is good so far. Two things to add.
1. Look at the skewer. Is it bent? is it holding? if external cam, how is the cam bed? It could just be a slipping skewer.
2. How I center wheels -- I use the brake blocks:
- shift to smallest cog
- open QR
- insert wheel
- put bike on ground, so frame weight "pushes" skewer axle into drop outs
- look at the brake block
- close the brakes to bring them close to the wheel
- get QR into position to lock down
- with right hand, put index finger over brake bridge and thumb in the rim. have left hand on the QR
- align rim visually between brake blocks
- tighten down QR
- lift bike, spin wheel, ensure no brake rub
- adjust as needed
First, advice here is good so far. Two things to add.
1. Look at the skewer. Is it bent? is it holding? if external cam, how is the cam bed? It could just be a slipping skewer.
2. How I center wheels -- I use the brake blocks:
- shift to smallest cog
- open QR
- insert wheel
- put bike on ground, so frame weight "pushes" skewer axle into drop outs
- look at the brake block
- close the brakes to bring them close to the wheel
- get QR into position to lock down
- with right hand, put index finger over brake bridge and thumb in the rim. have left hand on the QR
- align rim visually between brake blocks
- tighten down QR
- lift bike, spin wheel, ensure no brake rub
- adjust as needed
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 1,690
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9-4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
What bike do you have? Most modern racing frames won't take a 28C. 25C is usually max. Comfort frames will take a 28 max... Even then some tires are narrower than others and one company's 28 may be closer to a 27, while another's is closer to a 29.
#20
Banned.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Upland Ca
Posts: 19,895
Bikes: Lemond Chambery/Cannondale R-900/Trek 8000 MTB/Burley Duet tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
I thought about that as the 25's used to rub paint from the inside of my frame on the Lemonds. But looking at his picture, he has plenty of clearance on one side.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Post a picture of the rear wheel hub showing how it is mounted into the frame. If any spacers or such are out of place I am betting someone will notice it immediately. If everything is inorder, then just loosening and placing the wheel in the correct position and tightening up the skewer will probably make things right.
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 181
Bikes: 2012 Marin Larkspur CS Series.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
alright everyone .... last night i flipped around the wheel on the frame to check dish as someone suggested and it looks the same and in the same position flipped (scratching the rims being the issue)... I did read online that my bike does have a maximum of 25c and prefered 23c ... Yes i get clearance with the 25c but it bugs me that its not perfectly parallel to the frame. Whats odd is that on my old crap alex rims it was parallel. What i did notice was that the old rear wheel rim width was smaller than the deep v making it appear to be more parrallel to the frame and only off but a smidge, but now with the deep v rims as they are a little wider (and probably hell of alot better built and aligned) it makes it appear that way. I really dont know if this might be the issue.
Last edited by melvinator; 01-23-13 at 07:35 AM.
#23
Starting over
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 4,077
Bikes: 1990 Trek 1500; 2006 Gary Fisher Marlin; 2011 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 105; 2012 Catrike Trail
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Can you post a detailed pic of the dropouts? Do they have any adjusting features or are they plain? If it has adjusting bolts make sure they extend the same distance at both dropouts.
I'm still of the mind that you're not getting the wheel positioned correctly, or that you are, but then your pedaling torque is pulling the drive side forward, which would again go back to the QR either not being tight enough, or being broken in some way. It seems to me that if a) the old wheel centers OK (indicating it isn't an issue with the frame alignment or the dropouts not being parallel), b) the new wheel is true and c) the dish on the new wheel is OK, there's nothing left but incorrect installation of the wheel or a broken skewer. I know on my own bikes I have to really crank the QR down tight to prevent this sort of thing. The previous poster was right who said it needs to be tight enough to require leveraging the lever against the stays with your hand, and leave a pretty good impression in your palm when you close it.
I'm still of the mind that you're not getting the wheel positioned correctly, or that you are, but then your pedaling torque is pulling the drive side forward, which would again go back to the QR either not being tight enough, or being broken in some way. It seems to me that if a) the old wheel centers OK (indicating it isn't an issue with the frame alignment or the dropouts not being parallel), b) the new wheel is true and c) the dish on the new wheel is OK, there's nothing left but incorrect installation of the wheel or a broken skewer. I know on my own bikes I have to really crank the QR down tight to prevent this sort of thing. The previous poster was right who said it needs to be tight enough to require leveraging the lever against the stays with your hand, and leave a pretty good impression in your palm when you close it.
#24
Really Old Senior Member
#25
Really Old Senior Member
One unlikely possibility is a bent axle.
Hold the wheel up and rotate the axle with your fingers. Does the lock nut "wobble"?
I notice in your picture, that you have the chain on the big ring.
IF you also have it on a larger cog, the chain tension will tend to pull the cog side forward.
Are you PUSHING the wheel back hard enough to FULLY overcome chain tension?
I usually have the chain at the least tension when removing/installing the rear wheel.
Hold the wheel up and rotate the axle with your fingers. Does the lock nut "wobble"?
I notice in your picture, that you have the chain on the big ring.
IF you also have it on a larger cog, the chain tension will tend to pull the cog side forward.
Are you PUSHING the wheel back hard enough to FULLY overcome chain tension?
I usually have the chain at the least tension when removing/installing the rear wheel.