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  1. #26
    Senior Member Shellyrides's Avatar
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    35% protein
    30% fat
    35% carbs
    If you keep you calories to theses numbers and eat the right amount for you level of exercise and body weight you will lose. If you do not eat enough, exercise will not help.

  2. #27
    Senior Member Catlikeone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellyrides View Post
    35% protein
    30% fat
    35% carbs
    If you keep you calories to theses numbers and eat the right amount for you level of exercise and body weight you will lose. If you do not eat enough, exercise will not help.
    All I will say is please do some in-depth research. Not directed specifically at you Shelly, but everyone in general. This is one dietary view but not the one for maximal fat-loss. Research widely outside of mainstream media and especially BF.
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  3. #28
    The Recumbent Quant cplager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catlikeone View Post
    All I will say is please do some in-depth research. Not directed specifically at you Shelly, but everyone in general. This is one dietary view but not the one for maximal fat-loss. Research widely outside of mainstream media and especially BF.
    You're right that people should do their own research. But I'll just caution you that maximal fat loss probably shouldn't be the goal. Being healthier is what I would recommend. The OP is having issues exactly because of this (he's on a diet that isn't allowing his body to do the exercise he wants it to do).
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  4. #29
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    I've been on a low carb diet (Paleo) for about 8 months now and am down over 85 lbs. From my experience (from starting fresh or after falling off the wagon) it takes about 2 weeks to get through what I call my addiction phase. The body takes a little bit to start using protien more efficiently. Now withat that said - I am getting some carbs from fruit and veggies. Plus when i'm doing my long rides 50+ miles I do add sweet potatoes for the day before and the day after as well as eat some of the cleaner energy products during the breaks.

    Also I think you should look at more than just your carb intake and compare that with your work out regimine. If you are working out say 3+ hours a day you will need to increase your carbs (some). But anything under that and a good clean diet of Meat, Fruit and Veggies will provide you with all the energy you need.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisan View Post
    Aside from the dietary issue, this could very well just be a case of overtraining and fatigue. Correct me if I'm wrong but you've really only started hitting the cardio hard over the last month. Give yourself time to rest and recover and your body time to adapt to the new workload before piling on more work. This is one of the hardest lessons for newer folks. Ask Chef. I had to beat this into his head for months before he got the lesson. If I was you, I would take a day or two off to rest and then resume the cardio at either a lower intensity or cut the duration back a bit until you feel fresh again.
    This is very true. Working out everyday, like riding a lot everyday for example, can really hurt the efforts. You become fatigued and lose interest in working out too. Not good.

    Work out 4-5 times a week and maybe sneak in a walk on the days you do not work out.

    As for healthy carbs, in my opinion, complex carbs (for me) work the best. Quinoa, cous cous, brown rice, wild rice, teff, farro, etc etc. Use google.
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  6. #31
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    There are endless varieties of theories on what the diet should be composed of. It is nearly impossible to "do your own research"and make sense of it. I have a degree in biochemistry ( and economics) and find the arguments for low carb, 40/30/30, reduced calories, paleo, so on and on to all be relatively compelling, and all based on some forms of research. Point is the average consumer has little to no chance to go out there and really survey the literature and form a opinion. In the face of this, I have found that pretty much anything that gets you to reduce calories will end up in some weight loss if you stick with it. I know that as far as the losing end of weight management, low carb/low calorie combo works well, and for me ends up after a couple of weeks leaving me feel relatively energetic. Weight Watchers has has worked for me in the past, and on a very limited basis, the 40/30/30 carb/protein/fat regime proposed by Barry Sears also works, but not part of Sears regime is to have greatly reduced calories. What you will need to do is find out what works best for you. Understand that while losing weight there will be times you are feeling low energy, after all you are eating less than needed to maintain yourself, and are having to draw down emergency reserves.

    I think you are feeling run down because your newfound zeal for activity is a bit over the top. You need to schedule in a rest day or two during each week. You also need to have relatively lesser week as a rebuilding week every third or fourth week. After all, when you weight near 400, any exercise is Olympian in proportion.

    Thats my take, its free and probably worth less.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    There are endless varieties of theories on what the diet should be composed of. It is nearly impossible to "do your own research"and make sense of it. I have a degree in biochemistry ( and economics) and find the arguments for low carb, 40/30/30, reduced calories, paleo, so on and on to all be relatively compelling, and all based on some forms of research. Point is the average consumer has little to no chance to go out there and really survey the literature and form a opinion. In the face of this, I have found that pretty much anything that gets you to reduce calories will end up in some weight loss if you stick with it. I know that as far as the losing end of weight management, low carb/low calorie combo works well, and for me ends up after a couple of weeks leaving me feel relatively energetic. Weight Watchers has has worked for me in the past, and on a very limited basis, the 40/30/30 carb/protein/fat regime proposed by Barry Sears also works, but not part of Sears regime is to have greatly reduced calories. What you will need to do is find out what works best for you. Understand that while losing weight there will be times you are feeling low energy, after all you are eating less than needed to maintain yourself, and are having to draw down emergency reserves.

    I think you are feeling run down because your newfound zeal for activity is a bit over the top. You need to schedule in a rest day or two during each week. You also need to have relatively lesser week as a rebuilding week every third or fourth week. After all, when you weight near 400, any exercise is Olympian in proportion.

    Thats my take, its free and probably worth less.
    Good points.

    Though on th research front, typing in "complex carbs" in google would really yield a lot of great information.
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  8. #33
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    True on the complex carbs,although one must be cautious when using google for research, there's a lot of chaff with the wheat. I recently read a somewhat well documented article that total trashed the Glycemic index idea.
    Recycle, Reclaim, Reuse and Repair
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  9. #34
    Senior Member CommuteCommando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerys View Post

    I notice also my bowel movement was small. so my body kept and used more of what I ingested less to go out the rear :-) Seems to confirm I was lacking and had just "corrected" the lacking.
    Heavy Cardio burns carbs, which exit your body mostly through your lungs as CO2. Some is glycogen from fat, but your body cannot process that fast enough to fuel an intense workout, so eating enough prior to working out is important too.

    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    There are endless varieties of theories on what the diet should be composed of. It is nearly impossible to "do your own research"and make sense of it. I have a degree in biochemistry ( and economics) and find the arguments for low carb, 40/30/30, reduced calories. . .
    When I first started tracking, I found that attaining any thing close to these ratios to be very difficult. It was almost as hard to increase protean as it is to lower carbs.

    Also, I am almost finished reading The Omnivores Dilemma by Michael Polan.

    The sheer novelty and glamor of the Western diet, with its seventeen thousand new food products every year and the marketing power - thirty-two billion dollars a year - used to sell us those products, has overwhelmed the force of tradition and left us where we now find ourselves: relying on science and journalism and government and marketing to help us decide what to eat.
    His main thesis is that until the last hundred years or so, millennia of cultural experience guided our food choices. Unlike Koalas, for whom, if it looks and smells like eucalyptus, its edible, we have more difficult choices to make. The profit motive has driven the food industry to market to us what is better for their bottom line than our health. We then rely for fixes on other "experts" Like Atkins. Not that there is not something to what Atkins and the others are saying, but much is contradictory and downright confusing.

    Good luck. I now do much of my shopping at farmers markets, and am trying to increase it, with my wife kicking and screaming all the way.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    True on the complex carbs,although one must be cautious when using google for research, there's a lot of chaff with the wheat. I recently read a somewhat well documented article that total trashed the Glycemic index idea.
    Agreed. You will find anyone with miss infrmation. I've talked with serveral dieticians and get conflicting answers.

    So this leaves you with three things to do: Research a lot, draw your own conclusions, and then try it for yourself and see how it works.
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  11. #36
    Senior Member nerys's Avatar
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    this is my core problem. all the information is confusing (and I am a rather intelligent critter I have no problem designing a rocket but food? yeah right)

    The exercise is actually "fun" and I don't think I am over doing it too much. I actually don't think I am doing all that much exercise but physical limitations and scheduling limitations abound.

    I DO get rest days. wed/thur/fri are basically zero exercise days (work and I stay at work to save on fuel and time for all 3 days)

    when the weather is warmer I bring the bike to work.

    One weekend day is "heavy" with activity (hike or ride plus gym)

    the other days are usually just gym. right now 60 minutes on the stationary in either 2 30 minute chunks or 3 20 minute chunks.

    I do the weight machines twice a week

    it "appears" pretty clear to me that when I altered my diet I removed something I "need". ie X

    I am just trying to figure our what that X is so I can add it to my daily diet in a more healthy manner than chinese food.

    I am going to try "pasta" this week and see if that has the same positive impact then maybe I can figure our what is common to both chinese and pasta if that works.

    I see quinoa is a grain. its also available in pasta form. is that healthy? is it available in local stores? how would I find it?

    How difficult is it to process raw quinoa into pasta myself? (this is also important to me as the family likes pasta so if it tastes good and is equitable (ow expensive is it ?) maybe I can inject it into family meals and everyone can start eating healthier without even realizing it.

    Hopefully Vitacost prices are NOT the normal. Ouch $2.50 a box !! (versus 69 cents for regular pasta)

    its why I ask about making it myself. maybe cheaper.

    I am curious why you like quinoa it has MORE calories and MORE carbs in the same 57g serving size (205 versus 200 and 46 versus 42) ??? pretty much the same really but what makes it special over semolina pasta?

    whats special about it?

    also what is the deal with Cous Cous ?

    that is just Semolina. ie regular pasta ???

    What about TEFF ?? it has TRIPLE the calories and TRIPLE the carbs versus regular pasta. What is the advantage of using Teff ?

    Farro is just whole grain wheat. what is special about it ?

    I am not trying to be argumentative but I am curious why you eat these when they appear to be much worse for you as far as calories and carbs are concerned.

    IE what makes them special?

    Has anyone tried Shirataki ? VERY expensive and unstorable (comes in water) but EXTREMELY low in calories (almost low enough to not have to count it)

    how does it taste mainly texture ? cheaper sources? $2.38 for 7oz and since it comes in water sounds about like 2 servings !! ouch :-)

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerys View Post
    this is my core problem. all the information is confusing (and I am a rather intelligent critter I have no problem designing a rocket but food? yeah right)

    The exercise is actually "fun" and I don't think I am over doing it too much. I actually don't think I am doing all that much exercise but physical limitations and scheduling limitations abound.

    I DO get rest days. wed/thur/fri are basically zero exercise days (work and I stay at work to save on fuel and time for all 3 days)

    when the weather is warmer I bring the bike to work.

    One weekend day is "heavy" with activity (hike or ride plus gym)

    the other days are usually just gym. right now 60 minutes on the stationary in either 2 30 minute chunks or 3 20 minute chunks.

    I do the weight machines twice a week

    it "appears" pretty clear to me that when I altered my diet I removed something I "need". ie X

    I am just trying to figure our what that X is so I can add it to my daily diet in a more healthy manner than chinese food.

    I am going to try "pasta" this week and see if that has the same positive impact then maybe I can figure our what is common to both chinese and pasta if that works.

    I see quinoa is a grain. its also available in pasta form. is that healthy? is it available in local stores? how would I find it?

    How difficult is it to process raw quinoa into pasta myself? (this is also important to me as the family likes pasta so if it tastes good and is equitable (ow expensive is it ?) maybe I can inject it into family meals and everyone can start eating healthier without even realizing it.

    Hopefully Vitacost prices are NOT the normal. Ouch $2.50 a box !! (versus 69 cents for regular pasta)

    its why I ask about making it myself. maybe cheaper.

    I am curious why you like quinoa it has MORE calories and MORE carbs in the same 57g serving size (205 versus 200 and 46 versus 42) ??? pretty much the same really but what makes it special over semolina pasta?

    whats special about it?

    also what is the deal with Cous Cous ?

    that is just Semolina. ie regular pasta ???

    What about TEFF ?? it has TRIPLE the calories and TRIPLE the carbs versus regular pasta. What is the advantage of using Teff ?

    Farro is just whole grain wheat. what is special about it ?

    I am not trying to be argumentative but I am curious why you eat these when they appear to be much worse for you as far as calories and carbs are concerned.

    IE what makes them special?

    Has anyone tried Shirataki ? VERY expensive and unstorable (comes in water) but EXTREMELY low in calories (almost low enough to not have to count it)

    how does it taste mainly texture ? cheaper sources? $2.38 for 7oz and since it comes in water sounds about like 2 servings !! ouch :-)
    Most pasta in the USA is made with white processed flour which is a simple carb. They get processed too fast in your body and you crave more. Can you eat them.... sure. Its your journey. For me, I want complex carbs so it lasts longer in my body.

    Why so hung up on pasta? You mentioned Shirataki. No real nutrients there. Remember what a calorie means.... it means a measurement of energy. If it has not many cals, that means it has little carbs to help you.

    A carb is not equal my friend. Simple carbs versus complex carbs. I will take teff, quinoa, cous cous, and amaranth over anything made with white flour. But thats just for me.

    I think Chris, it is time that you contact a dietican. You have a lot of questions around food, a bright person, have a tough time research (meaning too many opinions) and looking for harder facts about food. You might want to consider this option. They do it for a career.
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  13. #38
    Senior Member nerys's Avatar
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    Exactly. (do it as a career) which means they charge money :-) hehe

    Hmm I could be dead wrong here (you are a chef i am not) but I am pretty sure all my pasta is 100% semolina. I did not even know they made pasta from regular white flour I just thought semolina was "normal" Yep I just checked says 100% semolina. Huh. I have never SEEN pasta made with flour. I guess its just a coincidence that the pasta I buy is semolina pasta (I will be sure to check next time I goto the store)

    Its interesting that semolina is wheat so what is different versus wheat pasta?

    I know its virtually zero calorie (Shirataki) and that's kind of the point because then I can make all the calories the good stuff (veggies sauce meat) without blowing my calorie load on what is really the filler (the pasta)

    it also means I can make the family eat healthier too without sacrificing the taste they desire. (pasta was just a convenient example)

    Is there a "free" method for me to talk to a dietician?
    Last edited by nerys; 02-01-13 at 01:23 PM.

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    Shirataki is pretty much undigestable. It goes in one end and comes out the other. :/ That's kind of the point of it. Weird texture, slightly odd taste, but it can be used to curb pasta cravings.

    Quinoa is good not necessarily because of the carbs but because what other nutrients it contains. It isn't too expensive in bulk, but it's still kind of niche so it isn't super cheap. I mix it in 50/50 with brown rice or in thirds with brown and wild rice. I know Red Mill brand sells for a litltle over $34 on Amazon for 6.5lbs from Amazon itself so free shipping. Can't remember what I pay when I stop at the local hippie coop.

    If you're going with less or no meat the reason some of the other stuff is important is building complete proteins. Quinoa (and soy) are technically complete, but they are barely so, pretty deficient in a few aminos. There are a few things your body just can't build on its own too well or not at all.

    Cous cous is just a pasta of a specific shape.

  15. #40
    Senior Member Shellyrides's Avatar
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    I would save money and just go whole wheat unless you are like me and gluten intolerant. The rest cost a lot and taste and feel just wrong for pasta.
    A huge +1 on the dietitian. Mine put me on the diet I am on and I do not run low and I have plenty to eat.

  16. #41
    Senior Member nerys's Avatar
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    That is what I am trying to figure out. how to add in whatever it is I am missing without adding all the "bad stuff" around it.

    I am keeping my protein high to help with preserving my muscle mass. I am actually trying to eat MORE MEAT than I usually do (high protien) the only meats I avoid are Red Meats (beef etc..) since it has double the calories but not double the protein as lean meats.

    Primarily Chicken - Turkey - Pork - Fish

    unless I can find a free one or a REALLY insanely cheap one I can't afford a dietician. right now at least its not an option.

    I thought semolina was wheat ? I tried actual "wheat" labeled pasta and its total CRAP. it quite literally tastes like cardboard (yes I have tasted card board)

    Think I will just avoid pasta except once in a while. too addictive. I love making sauces and the spices and ingredients you add to sauces to put on pasta. the pasta is just the medium to "get" the other stuff I like (and is good for me) so I was trying to find an alternative to it.

    but I could not afford $2.38 for 7oz for very long :-)

    found a video of someone making his own "pasta" from the powder form of this stuff. I wonder if I can make perogee's or ravioli from this stuff. they "stuff" they with the "good stuff" I need to eat without the "bad" that comes in the normal pasta packaging.

    SO how about some of you guys who are eating 2000-2500 cals a day and do not have issues share a weeks menu so I can get an idea of what your eating what I am eating and where each differs and see if I can figure out what I am missing.
    Last edited by nerys; 02-01-13 at 01:42 PM.

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    I had high hopes for Shirataki. Could. Not. Do.It. Awful, IMO.

    I can't answer your questions about diet, but there are so many on line resources. I wonder if you are over thinking it all a bit? Perhaps the Chinese food satisfied you simply because you had eaten so few calories the day before? Seems like if you want to have some pasta, just be sure you have a portioned out serving of it with some veggies and chicken. You could try mixing whole wheat and regular pasta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nerys View Post

    I am keeping my protein high to help with preserving my muscle mass. I am actually trying to eat MORE MEAT than I usually do (high protien) the only meats I avoid are Red Meats (beef etc..) since it has double the calories but not double the protein as lean meats.
    Almost all beef found in regular grocery stores is grain fed from feedlots. It is cheaper to fatten cows on a feedlot with corn that to graze them. Problem is that grain feeding greatly increases the ratio of saturated to unsaturated fat in the beef. I will eat grass fed when I can get it, but it's expensive, so rarely on that.
    As much as you paid for that Beemer [Mercedies, Audi, Escalade], I'm surprised it didn't come equipped with turn signals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nerys View Post
    That is what I am trying to figure out. how to add in whatever it is I am missing without adding all the "bad stuff" around it.

    I am keeping my protein high to help with preserving my muscle mass. I am actually trying to eat MORE MEAT than I usually do (high protien) the only meats I avoid are Red Meats (beef etc..) since it has double the calories but not double the protein as lean meats.

    Primarily Chicken - Turkey - Pork - Fish

    unless I can find a free one or a REALLY insanely cheap one I can't afford a dietician. right now at least its not an option.

    I thought semolina was wheat ? I tried actual "wheat" labeled pasta and its total CRAP. it quite literally tastes like cardboard (yes I have tasted card board)

    Think I will just avoid pasta except once in a while. too addictive. I love making sauces and the spices and ingredients you add to sauces to put on pasta. the pasta is just the medium to "get" the other stuff I like (and is good for me) so I was trying to find an alternative to it.

    but I could not afford $2.38 for 7oz for very long :-)

    found a video of someone making his own "pasta" from the powder form of this stuff. I wonder if I can make perogee's or ravioli from this stuff. they "stuff" they with the "good stuff" I need to eat without the "bad" that comes in the normal pasta packaging.

    SO how about some of you guys who are eating 2000-2500 cals a day and do not have issues share a weeks menu so I can get an idea of what your eating what I am eating and where each differs and see if I can figure out what I am missing.
    Chris, your messages are screaming for a dietican. I do know one.... the one I use. I owe her a lot since she has done a lot for me. Let me reach out to her. I remember her cost was very cheap because I used her when I had no money. All of your questions are screaming the need to talk with a dietitian.

    I do not mean that or any of my messages to be disrespect. I am to the point.... especially on this subject. You are asking the right questions though there needs to be deeper research and the BEST way to do this really is talk with a dietitian. Mine was instrumental in my journey and still is.

    FYI..... pasta is made with flour. Flour is wheat. Semolina comes from the wheat when milling. Cous cous is made from semlina. Just like with flours, there are many types of semlina. You have the "white" type which is more like yellow when is similar to white flour and then you have whole wheat. Semilna is made from durum wheat endosperm while whole what semilina is made from same without the seperation of the bran and germ. Think of it like this..... white bread made with white flour. 100% whole wheat bread made with 100% whole wheat flour. Which one is better for you? Same concept with cous cous.

    So you like to make sauces...... many things can be the carrier. Farro, cous cous, teff, brown rice, farrotto, wild rice, quinoa, barley, etc.
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  20. #45
    Senior Member nerys's Avatar
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    except I had the same number of calories (around 2000) hmmm unless I am recording the wrong calories for the chinese? I will dissect it next time and see if I can get a more accurate calorie count of whats in it.

    I MIGHT have access to a nutritionist (same thing ???) one of my co workers he friend is a certified personal trainer and nutritionist. I can't afford training but she said he would probably help me out with the nutrition part of the equation.

    SO as pure luck would have it that might be a solution path for me.

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    Shirataki is really useless to be frank. Has no nutritional value (aka no cals... no nothing!)

    However, we did dome some experimenting with it and yes, to make it taste good, you have to do a lot to it but it can work. But still sucks in the nutritional realm.
    Feel free to visit my blog www.chefonabicycle.com

  22. #47
    Senior Member bassjones's Avatar
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    Nerys, you might do well with the Body For Life plan. It's pretty easy to follow. You can exchange a homemade smoothie for their supplement shakes (in fact, I'd recommend it). No calorie counting, just proper portioning. You should be able to get the book at your library.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nerys View Post
    except I had the same number of calories (around 2000) hmmm unless I am recording the wrong calories for the chinese? I will dissect it next time and see if I can get a more accurate calorie count of whats in it.

    I MIGHT have access to a nutritionist (same thing ???) one of my co workers he friend is a certified personal trainer and nutritionist. I can't afford training but she said he would probably help me out with the nutrition part of the equation.

    SO as pure luck would have it that might be a solution path for me.

    Nope, they are not the same thing. A nutritionist is like a home cook (for lack of a better analogy) while the dietitian is more like a chef.

    But a nutritionist is better then nothing.

    I know, crappy analogy but thats all i got!
    Feel free to visit my blog www.chefonabicycle.com

  24. #49
    Senior Member nerys's Avatar
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    yes love to make sauces. hmm never thought of trying marinara type sauces on rice instead of pasta. that might be interesting.

    I tend to use white rice (because I can get it in instant form cheap which makes it super fast :-) and you can store it a very long time.

    I will get some brown/wild rice and try something in the coming week or so. see what happens.

    No disrespect is perceived. I fully admit when I am largely clueless on a topic and that state of being does not bother me (if your not learning your dead right?)

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    Senior Member bassjones's Avatar
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    White rice? Just say no. Zero nutritional value, and lots of empty calories.

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