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  1. #51
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSC View Post
    Went for a ride on some actual MTB trails today, Much harder than the other stuff I have been riding, 1600 calories in 5.7mi due to all the elevation changes. 5.7mi offroad was much harder than 13 on pavement.

    Attachment 304872
    I wouldn't believe 1600 calories - if you go there you'll start thinking you're burning 300-odd calories per mile which is way over the odds.

    I weigh about the same as you and work on a ballpark figure of 40 calories per mile and still have people saying that's too high. Mountain biking is harder than road cycling and obviously we heavier folks burn more energy than a lighter rider when climbing, but even so 300 calories per mile seems spectacularly high.

    Energy figures aside, good job on the ride, some trails on gradients can be seriously hard work. I remember the feeling of elation the first time I defeated a hill that had defeated me multiple times previously, and that sense of wondering how much further it was to the top only to realise I was at the top.
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    Not Road biking, plenty of climb.

  3. #53
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  4. #54
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    So I finally started riding during the week when I get home from work, been tough to commit the time but I am enjoying it.

    This weekend I did my longest ride yet 16.6mi which isn't too bad on a mountain bike with a bit of climb:

  5. #55
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cplager View Post
    A 20% grade is monster. The biggest hill in the US is something like 32% or 33%. I'm guessing your definition of grade is slightly different (standard is rise over run or tangent of the angle).
    One of the trails I like to hike in PA is pretty brutal - the grade indicator on my GPS topped out at something like 42%. Not one I'd attempt to ride (and I don't think mountain bikers are allowed on that trail)

    There's another trail that I had to use both hands to get up. Ironically it's called Little Flat Trail, and the local mountain bikers go down it. Based on the picture of gradients I'd estimate it at 100% and maybe more.
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  6. #56
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSC View Post
    Not Road biking, plenty of climb.
    300 calories per mile still seems way over the top.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSC View Post
    So I finally started riding during the week when I get home from work, been tough to commit the time but I am enjoying it.

    This weekend I did my longest ride yet 16.6mi which isn't too bad on a mountain bike with a bit of climb:
    Good effort. Be pleased with yourself for setting a new personal record - no need for the justification with the "mountain bike with a bit of climb" bit. You set a new personal best and that's something to be proud of. When you beat it (and sooner or later you will), that's something else to be proud of too
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  7. #57
    The Recumbent Quant cplager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by contango View Post
    One of the trails I like to hike in PA is pretty brutal - the grade indicator on my GPS topped out at something like 42%. Not one I'd attempt to ride (and I don't think mountain bikers are allowed on that trail)

    There's another trail that I had to use both hands to get up. Ironically it's called Little Flat Trail, and the local mountain bikers go down it. Based on the picture of gradients I'd estimate it at 100% and maybe more.
    Trails are much more likely to have ridiculous grades than roads I'll also mention that I wouldn't put too much faith in local elevation gain reporting (although I've seen 45 degree trails which would be 100% grades).
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    I hear you on the calories, but this ride was less climb/mile (what I meant by a bit of climb) and it gauged me at 190/mile. My wife went with me using the same meter and came up with half the calories/mile. Kind of fits considering she is dragging around half the weight.

  9. #59
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSC View Post
    I hear you on the calories, but this ride was less climb/mile (what I meant by a bit of climb) and it gauged me at 190/mile. My wife went with me using the same meter and came up with half the calories/mile. Kind of fits considering she is dragging around half the weight.
    190/mile still sounds way over the top. I weigh about 250 and to get to 190 calories per mile I reckon I'd have to be sprinting up huge hills.

    If you're interested in calories burned try taking your bike on the road, looking for the flattest circuit you can find, and see what figures it reports. It seems to be a recurring theme that a lot of estimates of calories burned are way over the top. Which is a shame, especially if you think you've burned 1000 calories and feel you've earned 400 calories worth of refuelling at the end of a ride if you only actually burned 300.
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  10. #60
    Senior Member IBOHUNT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by contango View Post
    190/mile still sounds way over the top. I weigh about 250 and to get to 190 calories per mile I reckon I'd have to be sprinting up huge hills.
    I agree. To get to 190 calories/mi would take a herculean effort.
    Best I have in me on a good day is ~15.4Kj / min. I believe, and correct me if I am wrong here, a Kj is roughly equal to a food calorie. I'd have to be putting out some serious power to get to 190 calories/mile

    I say find a power meter, do a test and compare the numbers to the device you are using. I know my Garmin Edge 500 is REAL(!) bad at calculating calories if I look at my powermeter data. The numbers are ~35% off.

  11. #61
    The Recumbent Quant cplager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBOHUNT View Post
    I agree. To get to 190 calories/mi would take a herculean effort.
    Best I have in me on a good day is ~15.4Kj / min. I believe, and correct me if I am wrong here, a Kj is roughly equal to a food calorie. I'd have to be putting out some serious power to get to 190 calories/mile

    I say find a power meter, do a test and compare the numbers to the device you are using. I know my Garmin Edge 500 is REAL(!) bad at calculating calories if I look at my powermeter data. The numbers are ~35% off.
    A powermeter itself is going to measure how much energy your muscles are producing. Not how much energy it took the human body to make the energy (and the human body is far from 100% efficient and different people have different efficiencies).

    That isn't to say that I wouldn't trust a what a power meter reads over a Garmin (mine lies to me horribly - I don't think I burned over 4,000 calories in just over two hours).

    In general, I'd only use the numbers to compare different workouts against each other. If you are going to go out and eat as (half) many calories as it claims you burned, you're not going to be pleased.
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    I agree with that, I am not a calorie counter but it does make a good yardstick. The numbers I pay the most attention to are miles, and climb.

  13. #63
    Senior Member IBOHUNT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cplager View Post
    A powermeter itself is going to measure how much energy your muscles are producing. Not how much energy it took the human body to make the energy (and the human body is far from 100% efficient and different people have different efficiencies).

    That isn't to say that I wouldn't trust a what a power meter reads over a Garmin (mine lies to me horribly - I don't think I burned over 4,000 calories in just over two hours).

    In general, I'd only use the numbers to compare different workouts against each other. If you are going to go out and eat as (half) many calories as it claims you burned, you're not going to be pleased.
    Understand that the powermeter is only going to measure work.

    My understanding of the math for getting food calorie expenditure is you multiply the average power in W by the time in seconds to get Joules; divide by the kcal/kJ conversion of 4.184; then divide by your metabolic efficiency for cycling (generally in the range 20-25%) to figure out the number of food calories you burned to get from A to B then multiply that mess by .001 to get rid of the messy k bit.

    therfore, on tonight's 63 min 15 second ride where I went a whopping 15 miles on the road bike

    Avg power was 227 Watts

    3795 seconds * 227 / 4.184 / .25 (efficiency)* .001 = 823 food calories. If I use normalized power of 258 watts then the figure is 936 food calories. Not a bad workout at 13 calories/min

    The "work" reported by Garmin was 860kJ where the calorie expenditure reported was 630.

    Even if I add my basil metabolic rate to the Garmin figure that only gets me to 700; a far cry from what the powermeter math tells me.

    At the end of the day I'm just saying ain't a chance I can ever get to 190 calories/mile much less 300 calories a mile. My legs and lungs wouldn't support it and I couldn't digest as many calories to keep me from bonking at that rate.

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    New Rule: when the people you are riding with tell you to run 40PSI even though your tire says 65PSI don't listen...... If you did listen and then finally tried 60PSI feel really dumb about how much harder you made all your previous rides.

  15. #65
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSC View Post
    New Rule: when the people you are riding with tell you to run 40PSI even though your tire says 65PSI don't listen...... If you did listen and then finally tried 60PSI feel really dumb about how much harder you made all your previous rides.
    General principle: Don't take what anyone says without considering why it might work or not work
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