beecee

That just hurt me... Bought the 2013 XXL model and now it's offered in 3XL? The 66cm would have been even better for my 6'8" frame!

But hey, still love my bike!

kingsqueak

Not 747 specific but for the discussion, I had my seat height way too high...by 7cm After realizing this the bar height issue went away as did saddle adjustment and comfort issues. The 24" XXL Ogre frame was fine. However I also learned another geometry lesson. The top tube was too long to get the reach to drops short enough. Ultimately I went to a Jones loop bar and the bike was transformed. It is made for a flat bar and works great that way.

I now understand a bit better how geo works for fit.

In 747 context I think the XXL would work for me at 6'5" going by the geo compared with my ogre where the XXXL matches the top tube I have now which was a long reach for drops for me. Keeping in mind I'm mostly legs with a 37" inseam and a 83cm seat height (930cm inseam)

expatbrit

Interesting. This is one of the high-listed bikes (along with the 64cm Roubaix, at least if they make any for 2014) for me at the start of next year. LBS figures I need an ETT of 620mm, which puts me on the smaller of the 2014s (200cm, 945mm cycling inseam -- all torso and especially arm).

The Roubaix/Secteur is close at 615, the Major Jake at 620 (but a shorter head tube) and the KHS at 620 or even 635. MUCKING HUGE.

donalson

I personally found that the most interesting thing bout the longer cranks was that with longer cranks you can use a longer top tube... it's logical but I hadn't considered it before and based on that I'd discarded the 747 as to long for me... I've found that a 60cm top tube to be about right for me (based purely on my own comfort not a pro fitter)... but 2.5cm longer cranks would not only put the saddle position lower, it would also move the saddle position further forward to keep the ideal KOPS location (or even if you don't exactly do KOPS you'd move forward to mimic the old saddle setback position you're used to)... with that the 62cm ett on the 747 would be more like me riding a 595mm top tube... add in the short reach sallow drop bars and it all starts to add up to me...

I've already talked with my wife about weight goals and rewarding myself with a bike... I was considering one of the plush style carbon bikes but now I've got my mind thinking on the 747... just a shame that my local KHS lbs that I used just closed his doors :-/

expatbrit

I hadn't considered that either; I was looking at the fact that I don't have to slam my saddle back (which I haven't done on my MTB, so I'm NOWHERE near KOP) and have my weight all hanging over the rear wheel. Plus I'm all torso and especially arm.

The reviews I read from people who've tried the long cranks seem overwhelmingly positive, as well. Seem especially true in terms of power to the ground and short power hill climbs.

I'm realising that a roadbike will probably be MUCH better for the riding I'm doing. Like you, I was digging the plush carbon but finding one in my size is proving exceptionally tricky (not to mention expensive) and I /just/ found an LBS that seem really good /and/ do KHS.

I wish I could test ride, but I suspect that just isn't happening on ANYTHING in the LARGE frame sizes.

H.S.Clydesdale

hey, good to see the thread still active. Just for internet archival purposes, KHS/Zinn did send me a new tire. So they do stand behind their product. It was the same model and brand as the old one which crapped out so soon, but I think thats the most you can expect. I have done nothing with it, having already put on the Rubinos.

Other than the tire issue, the bike is still amazing.

I am glad to see the changes to the 2014 model. It looks like they did change the tires and wheels. Which indicates to me that they knew the tires and wheels are the weak link. That said, the new tires and wheels look similar in price/construction, so who knows if they are in fact better.

Also surprising to see a larger model offered. This has to mean the bike has been profitable for KHS, and we may see the XXL+ bike market pick up with other manufacturers as well. It may just be a matter of time before we see a huge marketing blitz by specialized/shimano for their newest technological breakthrough; proportional cranks! Much like the "amazingly sophisticated" new single chainrings.

expatbrit, I know you are considering other "large" bikes, but as you mention, there are huge differences in geometry due to the crank size. A bike with similar tube lengths (the Roubaix/Sectuer/Major Jake), are really nothing like the KHS due to crank size. I have not ridden a carbon bike, but the 747 is very smooth IMHO. Have you come across the blog https://66cmtallbike.blogspot.com/. That guy shops the 64cm Roubaix and end up getting steel gunnar frame. Of course, that is because he is 6'9" and the 64cm was still a bit small for him, but I think the benefits of carbon are much outweighed by a bike that actually fits your body (proportional cranks). Plus I like steel, the modern oversized steel tubes are very stiff/light/plush, and you dont have to baby them while riding through gravel.

expatbrit

It's true. And it's really quite affordable. Still keeping shopping for a bit as finances clear up. I hear the long crank thing, but I guess I just don't know enough and can't read enough -- and $1800 is a lot of 'test money', as it were. I'm oddly nervous about steel, given the weight (however much my brain says 'you're almost 200lbs, 5lbs on a bike can't matter that much)

I'm long torso, short legs (6'7, 945mm cycling inseam). I did see the blog; wasn't quite sure how small, since the ETT on the 68cm Gunnar is actually shorter than I thought.

typevii

Interesting, looks like a few changes beyond the new sizes. long cage rear derailleur and now a 11-32 rear sprocket. It also looks like the tube sizes have changed as well, larger diameter (seat post too).

Now if only they would add really wide rear tire clearances and I could build myself a nice cyclocross bike as well. Probably have to wait for a disc braked version. I can dream.

Blind

Does anyone know anywhere in california that a demo ride on a 747 would be possible?

I'm wanting to update from my `80's 68cm road bike frame to hopefully something lighter and faster...and I keep coming back to this.

bigfred 

Presuming your 68cm 80's vintage frame was of some reasonable quality (Reynolds, Columbus, etc.) the 747 may not be much if any lighter. It's big selling point is the opportunity to utilized proportionally long cranks without spending on a custom frame. It may have been mentioned earlier in this thread, or not, but, I believe the 747 weighs in the mid 20's.

If proportional cranks and their benefits are what you're after the 747 is the only stock offering out there.

But, if "light" is what you're after, there are probably better alternatives.

"Light" and proportional cranks can only be achieved through a custom build.

Blind

it really isn't, I weighed in in race trim before I did the catalina triathlon last saturday and it was right on 30lbs, I really can't drop too much weight through different components either (velomax ascent front wheel, mavic open pro rear, full dura-ace 7700 group set except cranks, which are 180mm sram apex compact double), 3t ergo drop bars, continental 700x25 gp4000s tires. The frame is a bit of a tank.

From what I've read the 747 is 25lbs, dropping 5lbs would be pretty cool, as I can't drop that much off myself without losing muscle (6'5", 205lbs).

bigfred 

In that case, carry on. The 200mm cranks required a bit of adaptation for me. But, seem to be worth it.

Blind

just in case anyone else found this thread the same way I id (looking for a fast but big bike for a tall rider)

I stumbled across an ebay ad for a broken 64cm trek madone carbon frame, and that led me to looking around. You can't get that size in every model madone, at least from what I could find most max at 62cm, but the 5.2 is available in 64cm. They don't make very many each year.

I feel like I hit the lottery by snagging this bike off CL for $1550 last weekend. I haven't weighed it yet, but it literally feels like half the weight of my KHS which is 30lbs. I think this is probably 18-19lbs and apparently about 1.5lbs can be shaved off by swapping the wheelset!



Just figured I'd throw that out there as an option for other tall guys like myself. It's a 64cm marked frame, the previous owner cut the steer tube down a bit but I still fit great. I am 6'5" 205lbs and wear 36" inseam pants. Since this picture I swapped the stem from the 120mm stock one to a 100mm with a bit of rise and it fits me damn near perfect.

expatbrit

Blind -- the 64cm H2 Madone is another one I keep looking at. I'm not buying until after Xmas else I might have snatched up one from Trek Superstore's sale; they had a pretty killer deal on the 4.5 for a while, but I just can't spend like that right now.

brons2

YUCK. I don't know about other people but I don't ride like that. If I can't put my handlebars more or less even with my seat, then the bike is not acceptable.

I can't think of any circumstance under which I would want to ride such a bicycle for more than a few miles.

bigfred 

You've got your fit and style. Others have their own.

For what it's worth, you might be happy to hear I'm going to be decreasing the saddle-bar drop on Bierwagen. Not by enough to satisfy your requirements, but, hopefully by enough to assist my herniated disc in healing.

Now, if only we could convince Trek and Specialized to produce their 64cm frames with a higher bottom bracket:-)

Blind

it's definitely not a cruiser, the seat to bar drop is no where close to that of a real race bike. I like to go fast

brons2

How fast, and for how long? If I want to hammer out some miles at 20+, I ride in the drops.

I am doing a 300K brevet on the 23rd, folks that come out and do brevets with bikes like that usually end up coming back later with bikes like mine

brons2

If Grant said it, it must be true!
https://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=38

bigfred 

If all of us were primarily concerned with "Comfort On The Bike", Grant might be right.

But, alas, some of us Middle Aged Men In Lycra still cling to illussions of competitiveness and of crushing the souls of other slightly portly, wrinkled, greying and deluded cyclists, when we drop our brittle handled and ever lighter hammer.

"No!," we say. We will not go easily, gracefully, nor without struggle into the category of individuals who ride in an upright manner with bars equal in height to one's saddle. If we were to place our bars above the height of our saddle, we might as well add fenders and a wire basket on the front of our cycles. Next thing, we'll be seen coasting on the flat and level with loaves of bread and bottles of wine sticking from said basket and a wedge of cheese protruding from yon jersey pocket and reclining on the grass beneath shading trees to consume this crap.

No! We will not call a pickle, "Corniche". Nor ride on into the night with dim lights aimed down and shoulders up.

We face our age, decrepid backs and sore knees with disdain. The shoulders remain down, the lights of pre-dawn training rides aimed high.

Our bottom brackets........High.

Our Saddles,.........Tall

Our Cranks,........Long

Our bars,............Low,.............well sorta',........kinda,.........well,.............at least below the level of our saddle.

Viva la' MAMIL!

brons2

LMAO that's great Fred.

Actually I am going to try converting my Rivendell to 650b so I can run fenders. Not sure if it will be practical, as the bike already has a lowish bottom bracket and 180 cranks. But I'm looking to take another run at PBP in 2015 and I am not (not, not, not) going back without fenders. If'n I'm going to be riding my bike in the rain for 4 straight days, at least I don't also want to be covered in road grime.

As for the basket in front, not so much, I tried it once and the wheel flop was pretty horrible. The geometry just isn't set up for a front load. Of course the other option is a new frame, but the least expensive Rivendell frameset is $1500. Maybe a Soma Grand Randonneur 65 frame, if it's big enough, kinda doubting it though, my current Riv has a 68cm ST and 64CM TT.

bigfred 

Disturbingly, I may end up with a bike not that different from the brons collection.

Mrs. Fred would be absolutely thrilled to have a "Baguette Bike" (her title) and go on a few CC & Baguette tours.

But, all of this is truly OT from discussing the KHS 747, it's new second size option, Andel cranks, other crank options and what combo's of proportional crank and stock frame people have found to be successful for their particular riding style.

Blind

I commute to work every day about 15 miles total, usually average 23mph. My typical weekend road ride is over 100 miles. I like to climb hills and do intervals as part of my training so my pace is all over the place, usually 17.5+mph average over that distance unless I'm going through a loop in the santa monica/malibu mountains area. I have no idea what a brevet is, sorry.

brons2

https://www.rusa.org/glossary.html

You should try one out sometime, if you are brave enough.....err I mean crazy enough. There are definitely some very fast ex-racer types that do them, although I'm more towards the middle of the pack myself. Not that it's competitive, it isn't, except against yourself and the time limits.

typevii

Yes, about 25lbs as it comes. Easy to drop a lot more weight by changing the fork and wheels. After that it is all marginal gains with the seat and seatpost, stem, bars etc.
At the end of the day it is always going to be a 105 group-set equipped large steel frame with 200mm aluminium cranks (and we know what they weigh from bigfreds build).
I am quite happy with mine at around 20lbs now with pedals and bottle cages. The initial cost was a lot lower than a madone or roubaix in 64cm, which then let me change out the 'heavier' parts when funds allowed.