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Thread: KHS Flight 747

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    KHS Flight 747

    Has anyone ridden one? I am 6' 4" with a 37" cycling inseam. Am looking to get a new better equipped and better fitting bike. Only concern I have is that my right kne has been replaced and does not bend as much as it used to. I have to assume that cranks that are 25mm longer would require leg to bend more. I am intrigued by the idea of longer cranks for longer legs. It makes sense.

    Any one with experience with this bike or any other with long cranks? I know Bigfred is building one and am eagerly waiting for result.

    Price of the flight 747 seem reasonable for 105 components just hate to order one and find I don't like it.

    It is rough being large. You can go to any bike shop and test drive anything if you are normal.
    Last edited by Sasquatch16; 06-04-13 at 06:18 AM.

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    For now, I'm simply subscribed to the thread.

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    Would lowering seat of bike I currently ride 25mm be an accurate way of determining what the knees will feel like at the top of the pedal stroke? Is there more to it than this? Probably cannot ride long like this without proper extension.

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    I bought a KHS Flite 747 about a year ago, and overall am quite pleased with it. I am 195cm (~6'5") tall with a PBH of 97cm (~38"). If this is what you are referring to as "cycling inseam," then we're pretty close. There are a few things that you should be aware of if you are going to buy one of these...

    First, I had to swap out the seatpost, as the stock one was about an inch or two too short. Seems odd that a bike for a big/tall person has such a short seatpost... Next, I changed the stem to one that had an appreciable rise. Stock, the saddle was about 3" to 4" higher than the top of the handlebars for my preferred saddle height. Now the saddle's about 1.5" higher. Liveable. Finally, I found that the stock tires (Kenda Kontenders, 700c X 26) gave me a lot of flats. Given that these tires are very high pressure (recommended 125 psi) and quite light, they didn't seem suitable for riding on anything but smooth, pristine road surfaces. I only ride this bike on roads, but it seemed like every time I'd go through some loose gravel/grit on the road (road peripheries, intersections, etc), I'd flat. I just purchased some schwalbes (yesterday!) to hopefully reduce this. Be aware that if you purchase different tires, there is very little clearance, particularly at the rear. You might be able to fit a small section 700c X 28, maybe. I went tougher, not bigger... I'm sure that the extra weight of the schwalbe will slow the bike down some, but it's worth it to me to not have to get off and fix flats every second ride. Overall, there's nothing different about this than from buying any other bike and fitting / tweaking it to your preferences.

    I found that on a typical ride, my average speed has increased about 5% compared to a similar bike with shorter (175mm) cranks. I believe that this is due to the extra leverage you get with the longer crank allows me to turn a bigger gear for the same perceived effort. Like you, I have some issues with one of my knees. I've not had a replacement, but have had several surgeries for assorted damage that has left me with some range of motion restrictions. I found that after the initial "hey, this is different!" feeling, I quickly grew accustomed to the longer crank, and it's now the new normal. And that is the big selling point of this bike... I'm not sure that lowering the saddle on another bike will mimic the longer cranks. It'll probably feel like your saddle is too low... It may help in showing if your knee can move through the new arc given by a longer crank though, but only at the top of the stroke.

    I hope that this helps.

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    Information very helpful. I have read some reviews and they say most of what you have experienced. Seems like a far price for a 105 equipped bike that also fits. Even after spending on a few upgrades I think it is a good deal compared to a custom frame.
    I am going to put my bike on a trainer this weekend since it is going to rain and lower my seat just to see what it feels like at the top. I will have to lower 50mm to mimic where pedal will be at the top.

    I have read in some posts here that climbing is a lot better with the longer cranks. Have you found this to be true? I currently have a triple and need most of it to get up some hills near me so I am a little concerned about the 50/34.

    Also were you able to try one before you bought or did you just take a leap of faith and order one?

    Again thanks for your help.

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    I was able to do a ride of about 5 minutes on a bike that belonged to someone I met on a ride in the Seattle area... Not long, but enough to let me know that this would work for me. I live in Vancouver BC (plenty of hills, and mountains nearby if you're so inclined), and have found that I do indeed climb better with the longer cranks that with a comparable bike with shorter cranks. Well, the perceived effort is less for a given gear, anyway. I don't really know if I'm any faster as I've never timed just the climbs... but it feels faster. It took a couple of rides to get the cadence back up, but once I did, I noticed that my average speed for a given ride improved about 5% over the speed for the same ride on a different bike similarly set up, but with 175mm cranks. Mind you, that bike has a triple (48-38-26), but I generally only use the granny gear as a bail out, at the end of a very long ride if I have to climb any long/steep hill. You can always do a comparison of what you're riding now to the Flite 747 (in terms of relative gearing) on Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator:
    http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/
    If you use "gain ratio" you'll get an idea of perceived effort... Mind you, that site only lists cranks of up to 190mm, so you'll have to extrapolate a bit. Also, road triples are often 52-42-30, so going to the 50-34 on the Flite 747 may give you a low enough gear to still climb comfortably. Check it out...

    And if you're going to raise the saddle on your current bike, wouldn't it be 25mm, not 50? I'm guessing that your current bike has 175mm cranks...

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    I originally thought that lowering seat 25mm would be a good comparison but it was explained to me this way. Saddle will have to be lowered 25mm to reach bottom pedal. There is a 400 mm distance from bottom pedal to top pedal and 350mm with 175mm cranks. I keep confusing myself thinking about it but you lower 25mm to reach bottom pedal with 200mm crank. This would put a top crank of 175mm 25mm higher. Change upper to 200mm and you are another 25mm closer. If you were not on the other side of continent I would think about asking you if I could ride it a little but I am in PA so that is out of question.

    I called KHS and they could give me no information as to what dealers or where any have been sold.

    I had looked at Sheldon Browns website and it seems like you would be gaining a gear with the longer cranks.

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    Senior Member Bill Kapaun's Avatar
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    IF you have a limited range of motion in your knee, you need shorter cranks!
    You make up for the loss of leverage by changing the cassette to lower gears and make up the difference with a faster cadence.

    Picture this-
    The longer the crank, the more you lower the seat to get proper leg extension when the crank is in the 6 o' clock position.
    Now, when the crank is in the 12 o'clock position, the difference is 2X since the pedal is higher above the ground AND you have lowered the seat.

    You might look at this old thread I created. Go to post 110 for my results.
    BTW, I've shrunk to 5-11" from a scant 6-1", in my old age- (kind of short legged)

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...Too-Long/page4

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    Hip and knee angles are one of my concerns with this. I can report that with a higher bottom bracket and matching the pedal spindle to seat dimensions between my two bikes, the top of the 200's are 40mm higher than my 180's. Cables should get installed this week. Photos of my fitting process with details of knee realative to pedal spindle, hip angle, etc. will follow.

    One of the proponents I e-mailed with described having to concentrate on keeping his rear down when standing on climbs for the first several weeks. He just wasn't accustomed to his feet revolving through such a large diameter and had to relearn the degree to which his knee and hip needed to flex.

    You might try pm'ing laxpatrick. Or, go look at the thread about his Gunnar build. I think he commented on leg flextion as well.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

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    Sasquatch:

    I get it now... I didn't think about the aspect of lowering the saddle. I know the height from my saddle top to bottom of pedal stroke, but didn't think it through. What I have found is that for me, there is no down side to the effect of knee angle at the top of the pedal stroke. At first, it was noticeable, but now not an issue. I do notice that I feel something is missing when I ride bikes with shorter cranks now. In fact, I've found similar results to what many, many others (granted, all with long legs - well over the so-called "norm") have noted when switching to longer cranks. If you read this thread you'll see what I mean, particularly post #21:
    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...k-Ghetto-Build
    I truly agree with his statement "Proportional length cranks just makes sense to my mind - smaller circles if you ars smaller - larger circles if you are larger - but proportionally - the same sized circles - same angles..." Yes, I appreciate that there are some knee mobility issues that may preclude your use of longer cranks, but if you can accommodate the range of motion, go for it! If you can't, then Bill K's statement is the way to go, although I would suggest that you stay with the crank length you have now, as going shorter may also generate other issues...

    Since I purchased the Flite 747 from my LBS, the owner there approached me if I could let another customer of his check it out with a test ride... That person bought one as well. Yeah, I know that whole line about "what's in it for me?" but at the end of the day I don't mind helping someone out. That bike shop has helped me out more than once... I would suggest that you go to some local bike shops that stock KHS and see if any of those have sold a 747, and then ask if the shop will contact that person to see if you can do a test ride. Failing that, go to some of the shops that either have a "race" following, or core group that does a lot of road riding, and ask around to see if anyone knows anyone who...

    I like the longer cranks so much that I've been sizing up my other bikes to see if any of them will accommodate that length. Sadly, the XXL Salsa Fargo is the only candidate... BB drop, chainstay clearance, and heel clearance are all quite critical. To the best of my knowledge, Zinn is the only manufacturer who is really serious about tall customers. The KHS Flite 747 is a good value introduction to his products/designs. Maybe some day I'll buy one of his custom products...

    Good luck with it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
    IF you have a limited range of motion in your knee, you need shorter cranks!
    You make up for the loss of leverage by changing the cassette to lower gears and make up the difference with a faster cadence.

    Picture this-
    The longer the crank, the more you lower the seat to get proper leg extension when the crank is in the 6 o' clock position.
    Now, when the crank is in the 12 o'clock position, the difference is 2X since the pedal is higher above the ground AND you have lowered the seat.

    You might look at this old thread I created. Go to post 110 for my results.
    BTW, I've shrunk to 5-11" from a scant 6-1", in my old age- (kind of short legged)

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...Too-Long/page4
    I have plenty of range of motion for the 175's. I have a little less in one leg than the other. Looking to buy new bike and just checking all of the options. Specialized Roubaix is an option at 64cm but they do not make a triple anymore. I think the longer cranks will make up for the 4 less teeth on the compact vs.triple. Definitely would not buy bike with long cranks without trying first and I am about to give up on that. Most of the area KHS dealers did not even know what the 747 was and were not interested in bringing one in without me purchasing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    Hip and knee angles are one of my concerns with this. I can report that with a higher bottom bracket and matching the pedal spindle to seat dimensions between my two bikes, the top of the 200's are 40mm higher than my 180's. Cables should get installed this week. Photos of my fitting process with details of knee realative to pedal spindle, hip angle, etc. will follow.

    One of the proponents I e-mailed with described having to concentrate on keeping his rear down when standing on climbs for the first several weeks. He just wasn't accustomed to his feet revolving through such a large diameter and had to relearn the degree to which his knee and hip needed to flex.

    You might try pm'ing laxpatrick. Or, go look at the thread about his Gunnar build. I think he commented on leg flextion as well.
    If your measuring 40mm difference between your 180mm cranks and your 200mm cranks than the 50mm I came up with makes sense.

    I am going to put my bike on trainer and lower seat 50mm and pedal awhile. This should give me some idea what it feels like at the top anyway. Better than nothing.

    Bigfred any idea how large you can practically go on cranks with a standard frame? That is another option I was thinking of. If I find cranks I like than I can match them later to a frame that fits better. I could also wait till your finished and take a trip to NZ. I hear it is beautiful there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch16 View Post
    I have plenty of range of motion for the 175's. I have a little less in one leg than the other. Looking to buy new bike and just checking all of the options. Specialized Roubaix is an option at 64cm but they do not make a triple anymore. I think the longer cranks will make up for the 4 less teeth on the compact vs.triple. Definitely would not buy bike with long cranks without trying first and I am about to give up on that. Most of the area KHS dealers did not even know what the 747 was and were not interested in bringing one in without me purchasing it.
    The two stock carbon frames that were at the top of my list were the 64cm Roubaix and 64cm Madone. Ridley also does some realatively large frames, but, I don't know if the outlier sizes are imported to the states.

    Zinn has an adjustable crank rental option. I do not know if they can be ridden on the street, or, if they are limited to the trainer for fitting purposes. That might be an option to try various arm lengths on your current frame before committing to the purchase of cranks or a complete bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch16 View Post
    If your measuring 40mm difference between your 180mm cranks and your 200mm cranks than the 50mm I came up with makes sense.

    I am going to put my bike on trainer and lower seat 50mm and pedal awhile. This should give me some idea what it feels like at the top anyway. Better than nothing.

    Bigfred any idea how large you can practically go on cranks with a standard frame? That is another option I was thinking of. If I find cranks I like than I can match them later to a frame that fits better. I could also wait till your finished and take a trip to NZ. I hear it is beautiful there.
    I would be extremely careful about basing any decission on the lowered saddle experiment. Top dead center will be the same, but, the rest of your stroke will be completely different.

    The maximum crank length you can run on a standard frame is going to be determined by your usage, cornering style, bottom bracket height, arm clearance at the chain stay, foot size and width, etc. One helpfull experiment is to lean your bike with shoe attached over and determine it's point of contact. For me it's the outside edge of my shoe. Cut an appropriately sized small block of styrofoam and double sided tape it to your contact point. Go for a few hard rides and see if you scrub it off or not. That'll help sort how much ground clearance you have. Pick rides with the tightest, fastest corners you are likely to experience.

    Just as important is crank arm clearance. I've not measured the inside Q factor on the 200's. But, my Dura Ace 180's come within a few mm of the chainstays. Unless the 200's are measurablely wider they would certainly contact the stock chainstays.

    Typically it seems that builds are usually including slightly longer chainstays as well as a higher bottom bracket when designing for individuals who warrant long cranks. The new bike certainly has more chainstay sculpting or relief further aft than my existing rig.

    I should have Bierwagen finished by next weekend. That's my goal. So, start looking at air fares. It is beautiful hear. Mind you, I live in Auckland (aka The Big Smoke). But, I'm sitting on the sofa trying to ward off craps right now after completing what was a wonderful 4:00 110km Saturday morning ride through the country side and back to my door with a stop at a local cafe along the way. Leave the big city and it only gets better. The South Island has some truly spectacular scenery and I highly recommend it. The only real down side is that we have what many have agreed to be some of the coarsest chip seal in the world. I've ridden and driven many gravel roads that were smoother and faster. Some of the group rides publish intended averages with as much as 3-5 kph difference depending upon whether the ride is mostly on asphalt or chip seal.

    I should have Bierwagen together within the week and intend to post plenty of photos of the initial fit process. You'll get to see plenty of comparisons of knee and hip angle at top and bottom dead center, knee positions realative to pedal spindle, etc.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

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    I just read bigfred's response and went down to my garage and measured the KHS Flite 747 sitting there. Not 100% accurate, but pretty close. I used a vernier caliper and eyeballed the placement... I measured the gap on both drive side and non-drive side between the crank arm and the chainstays, in line with the pedal spindle. Next, I measured the distance across the chainstays at that point. Finally, I measured the thickness of the crank arm, at the pedal spindle.

    Here are the measurements:
    Drive side gap = 13.8 mm
    Non-drive side gap = 19.9 mm
    Distance across chainstays = 104.7 mm
    Crank thickness (both sides are the same) = 15.9 mm

    This gives me a total Q factor of (15.9 + 13.8 + 104.7 + 19.9 + 15.9) = 170.2 mm. Given the length of the cranks, this relatively high Q does the job of keeping them clear of the stays.

    The difference in the clearance gaps on each side is a bit disconcerting, but in practice, I don't notice it. Everything is tight, and these are the stock Andel crank arms, stock bb, and frame. Neither the chainstays nor the seatstays are sculpted. The gap at the ends of the crank arms are about 3 mm less than at the pedal spindles on each side. The bb height above ground, with the stock tires, is about 300 mm. You can always check the KHS website for the bb drop, if that is what you're after.

    Bigfred, it certainly sounds like you know your stuff for building up bikes. One suggestion that I may have if you have chainstay clearance issues is to go with a longer length bb spindle.

    I've travelled to NZ about 20 or so years back, and it sounds like the roads haven't gotten any better! I have a friend in Napier who keeps inviting me down, so maybe one of these days my wife and I will make the trip again... Definitely a beautiful country. I look forward to seeing the photos of your new build... Have fun with it!

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    Bigfred I am looking forward to you finishing your bike. I am new to cycling having only been riding for a little over a year on a used 63cm Trek that I found. Having decided that this is something that I enjoy and can do without discomfort to my ailing knees I want to invest in a better bike. I am enjoying the process of trying to figure out what I want. As you know finding bikes to test ride is not easy at our size.

    I wear size 52 shoes and currently use pedal extenders to keep my heels from contacting chainstays so this is a concern for me. My one foot being a little ducked out makes this worse.

    I think I will eventually find something with long cranks to try. I was looking on ebay last night and saw a triple crank setup with 180mm cranks that was very cheap. Thinking about getting that as a starting point to longer crank experiment.

    Looking on Google earth Vancouver is a stones throw compared to NZ. My wife already thinks I am a little obsessed with the whole cycling thing. Finding the passport to go look at a bike she will probably try to have me committed.

    I appreciate everyones comments and it has been a big help.

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    You guys got all technical on me, but for what it's worth, I bought a 747 about 3 weeks ago. I'm in Montreal and our roads are more than horrendous, but I still commute to work with it, which was the original reason why I wanted a bike. Not the best commuter comfort-wise (as it shouldn't be), but a great bike altogether for a tall guy trying out the sport. I get to work about 30 minutes faster riding as opposed to taking the bus/train...

    I'm planning on taking it on longer rides and will eventually try a lighter custom frame if I really get into it (which I'm thinking I will).

    Anyway, back to the bike... My seatpost is maxed out. I'm 6'7" with a 37" inseam, which isn't "that long" for a guy my size. I hear people talking about a Thomson Elite, so I may look into that eventually, but it seems to fit perfectly for now. It's also my first road bike so I can't comment extensively on it, but I love it!!!

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    beecee:

    Congratulations on the purchase - I think you'll like both the bike and the sport. It sounds like we're pretty close in leg length... My trouser inseam is 37" and my PBH is about 1.25" longer. I found that I had to change the seatpost as it was quite a bit too short. Are you sure your saddle is high enough? You may want to check out a few sites to see if you are close... Here's a couple that explain it a bit:

    http://sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html
    http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/art...t-right-14608/

    There's lots of sites out there that explain it. I generally go with raising the saddle until I feel my hips rocking, and then lowering it a bit. Fore and aft positions are important too, and that's explained there as well. As for cycling in PQ, I'm totally impressed with les routes vertes - I wish we had them in BC!

    Sasquatch16: Have you thought about checking through the forum here and e-mailing those who have this bike to see if anyone is close to you? There's been several threads about this bike, and it's a good bet that one of those people - if they're close enough - would hook you up for a trial ride. The cost of getting to BC would come pretty close to that of the bike!
    I have size 48s, and I find that my left foot occasionally would contact the quick release skewer. The style on this bike is one of those high profile external cam boutique aluminum jobs... I'll get around to changing it for a Shimano one sooner or later. More clearance. For now I've just turned the lever arm up behind the seatstay, and it seems out of the way. I've currently got Shimano A520 pedals on it, but change back and forth between them and some old-school Looks. I don't find that I need pedal extenders... in fact, I had to google the term to see what they were. Anyhow, these crank arms seem plenty beefy, so should stand up to the extra forces developed by the longer lever the pedal extenders would generate. I weigh about 110 kg (~240 lbs) and I haven't noticed any deflection or flex in this set of cranks. In fact, the bike is pretty rock solid all-round.

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    Beecee,

    Welcome to the forum. And, it's great to hear from another 747 owner.

    Thomson Elite posts are very popular amongst the clyde community. Not only are they hella' strong, but, their clamping mechanism provides a continuous and full 40mm of support both above and below the saddle rails. Which helps minimize the chance of bending or breaking rails.

    Are you riding with normal sneakers, or, cleated cycling shoes? Typically there will be a fair bit of difference in saddle position between those two. Sneakers tend to be realatively soft soled and allow one's heel to sag. While cycling shoes tend to have a degree of false high heel built into them and keep ones heel higher. Which necessitates, allows or encourages a higher saddle position.

    Cheers,
    Fred
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    Beecee,

    Welcome to the forum. You will find a lot of good information here. I am new to cycling like you. Have only been doing it for about a year and have done lots of reading here. Good luck with the bike.

    Johhnyo,

    I have been searching and so far I have found 2 747's. Yours in BC which is a little far to check out a bike and Beecee's in Montreal which is a lot closer. i have been checking with local dealers with no luck. Will expand my search a little. I would welcome the chance to ride anything with long cranks. I would buy the 747 site unseen if I knew I would be okay with the cranks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    Are you riding with normal sneakers, or, cleated cycling shoes? Typically there will be a fair bit of difference in saddle position between those two. Sneakers tend to be realatively soft soled and allow one's heel to sag. While cycling shoes tend to have a degree of false high heel built into them and keep ones heel higher. Which necessitates, allows or encourages a higher saddle position.
    I'm riding with regular shoes, which from my understanding is not ideal! Shoes and pedals are my next purchase, which may also mean I will be needing a new seatpost. My seat is fully extended when riding now...

    Thanks for your comments and for welcoming me. I'm not huge on message boards (i.e. you most likely won't see my post count skyrocket anytime soon), but this community is great, respectful and helpful! I've been lurking around for months!

    Merci!

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    I also just purchased a 747 this week. Another big bike in the Great White North. I'm 6'6" and 340lbs and will be mounting this on my trainer until I get myself down under the 300lb mark. In the meantime, I will continue to ride my Specialized Stumpjumper tank that I set up for road riding last year. Even once riding down at 300lbs, I am very interested in mounting some 28c Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires on this bike. I have read a couple threads that indicated 28c would be a tight fit but it looks like they should fit fine on my bike.

    I was surprised that my bike came with Weinmann DA17 rims instead of the Weinmann DP18 rims the bike is spec'd with. Anyone else get these rims? From the Weinmann site, they appear to be a wider trekking rim designed for 23c/28c tires versus the DP18 which is a racing tire for 18c/23c tires. I am hoping that with the wider rim, a 28c tire might fit better. Thoughts?

    Jeff

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    Good luck with the bike. After talking with rep. from KHS he tells me they have only sold about 30 of these bikes with 90% being on the west coast. I do not see any reaon why you have to wait till you lose weight to start riding it. I started riding with my current road bike when I was 350lbs and never had a problem other than the new cyclist saddle problems. I would think that if the tires just barely fit you will not have much tolerance for wheel true. Might be truing them a lot more than you usually would have to.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyo View Post
    Sasquatch:

    I get it now... I didn't think about the aspect of lowering the saddle. I know the height from my saddle top to bottom of pedal stroke, but didn't think it through. What I have found is that for me, there is no down side to the effect of knee angle at the top of the pedal stroke. At first, it was noticeable, but now not an issue. I do notice that I feel something is missing when I ride bikes with shorter cranks now. In fact, I've found similar results to what many, many others (granted, all with long legs - well over the so-called "norm") have noted when switching to longer cranks. If you read this thread you'll see what I mean, particularly post #21:
    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...k-Ghetto-Build
    I truly agree with his statement "Proportional length cranks just makes sense to my mind - smaller circles if you ars smaller - larger circles if you are larger - but proportionally - the same sized circles - same angles..." Yes, I appreciate that there are some knee mobility issues that may preclude your use of longer cranks, but if you can accommodate the range of motion, go for it! If you can't, then Bill K's statement is the way to go, although I would suggest that you stay with the crank length you have now, as going shorter may also generate other issues...

    Since I purchased the Flite 747 from my LBS, the owner there approached me if I could let another customer of his check it out with a test ride... That person bought one as well. Yeah, I know that whole line about "what's in it for me?" but at the end of the day I don't mind helping someone out. That bike shop has helped me out more than once... I would suggest that you go to some local bike shops that stock KHS and see if any of those have sold a 747, and then ask if the shop will contact that person to see if you can do a test ride. Failing that, go to some of the shops that either have a "race" following, or core group that does a lot of road riding, and ask around to see if anyone knows anyone who...

    I like the longer cranks so much that I've been sizing up my other bikes to see if any of them will accommodate that length. Sadly, the XXL Salsa Fargo is the only candidate... BB drop, chainstay clearance, and heel clearance are all quite critical. To the best of my knowledge, Zinn is the only manufacturer who is really serious about tall customers. The KHS Flite 747 is a good value introduction to his products/designs. Maybe some day I'll buy one of his custom products...

    Good luck with it!
    One of the issues I have w/Zinns are the extremely boring paint schemes/looks of the frames and bikes overall. If I'm going to spend $3-$4-$5K on a bike, it better have nice aesthetics as well, besides fitting. I'm tall too(6'6"), and maybe you should give the GURU bike company(out of CN) a try possibly Sasquatch? They custom make bikes for taller riders too, and their prices are in line with the big names.
    Last edited by barnabyjames; 06-16-13 at 04:58 AM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnabyjames View Post
    One of the issues I have w/Zinns are the extremely boring paint schemes/looks of the frames and bikes overall. If I'm going to spend $3-$4-$5K on a bike, it better have nice aesthetics as well, besides fitting. I'm tall too(6'6"), and maybe you should give the GURU bike company(out of CN) a try possibly Sasquatch? They custom make bikes for taller riders too, and their prices are in line with the big names.
    One of the challenges to widespread adoptation of proportional cranks amongst the tall set is the necessity and cost of such custom frames. For those of us who have to think twice about spending $1,800 on a complete 747, for what amounts to a personal experiment that may or may not be successful, the $2400-6000 for a custom frame from Zinn, Guru, Parlee is a huge investment in something that may not work for us and which will have an extremely limited resale market. For those that are interested in a custom frame but not the prices listed above, Laxpatrick started with a custom steel Gunnar. I believe those can be had for $1300-1500.

    My whole ghetto build has been an effort to overcome this conundrum. If it weren't for the extremely affordable frame and the existance of the reasonably priced Andel cranks it wouldn't be happening. Once I learn if the cranks work for me, I might consider a custom frame at some point.

    Sasquatch's challenge is to find a 747 to trial before buying. The purchase of a custom frame would be an even larger leap of faith.

    As for the conservative paint schemes on Zinns: Do you really want to draw even more attention to a frame that is not going to ever come close to fitting most cyclist definition of aesthetic? Keep my simple. Black, White, etc.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    One of the challenges to widespread adoptation of proportional cranks amongst the tall set is the necessity and cost of such custom frames. For those of us who have to think twice about spending $1,800 on a complete 747, for what amounts to a personal experiment that may or may not be successful, the $2400-6000 for a custom frame from Zinn, Guru, Parlee is a huge investment in something that may not work for us and which will have an extremely limited resale market. For those that are interested in a custom frame but not the prices listed above, Laxpatrick started with a custom steel Gunnar. I believe those can be had for $1300-1500.

    My whole ghetto build has been an effort to overcome this conundrum. If it weren't for the extremely affordable frame and the existance of the reasonably priced Andel cranks it wouldn't be happening. Once I learn if the cranks work for me, I might consider a custom frame at some point.

    Sasquatch's challenge is to find a 747 to trial before buying. The purchase of a custom frame would be an even larger leap of faith.

    As for the conservative paint schemes on Zinns: Do you really want to draw even more attention to a frame that is not going to ever come close to fitting most cyclist definition of aesthetic? Keep my simple. Black, White, etc.
    Lol, you got me there BF. But still, I mentioned Zinn because someone else did. Maybe op can call around to shops, or get on the net and start scouring the net in hopes of finding a trial bike somewhere? I wouldn't recommend buying any of the $2400-$6k bikes either unless I was in love with a particular bike and I could afford it. I may buy this Specialized Roubaix from a LBS here, I had an old Specialized ALLEZ at one point when I was younger( & shorter), one of the best bikes I ever owned. As soon as I saw American Flyers, I had to have one.

    I get what you're saying about Zinns, but man are they ugly bikes.

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