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  1. #51
    Klaatu..Verata..Necktie? genejockey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    Try being a chemist "Oh, it's organic and contains no chemicals," just chaps my hide! Everything on this planet, around this planet and in the universe that isn't a vacuum is made of chemicals. Some are good and some are bad and others fall in between. Sucrose has an LD50 of 29,0000 mg/kg in rats. The only reason that it's that high is because some of the rats were fast enough to get out of the way when the sugar was dropped on them
    So, the LD50 is directly proportional to the size of the cage, eh?
    "Donít take life so seriousóit ainít nohow permanent."

  2. #52
    Junior Member RaveLeTour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatherAlabaster View Post
    I do better with a bit of carb-loading
    Carb loading as a Clyde/Ahtena is not necessary. If you are a large person (given that most of that weight is excess) your body has a lot of stored energy as fat. Training your body without the extra intake of carbs for "energy" will give you quicker results.

    As far as "clean eating" goes, just don't drink soda, don't get your protein in the form of fast food hamburgers, and don't go crazy with the portions. Train your body to not need junk food, willpower is the best diet.

  3. #53
    Junior Member RaveLeTour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billh View Post
    it's because our brains crave to build fat stores for the coming famine
    No. Our bodies crave food because the average American eats massive amounts of "addictive" processed food. Your standard supermarket packaged food item is engineered to make you buy more, and to make you want to eat more.

    Read the book "Salt Sugar Fat" by Michael Moss. You can get a used copy on Amazon.com for $10. This book will change your diet forever.

  4. #54
    Senior Member MikeRides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaveLeTour View Post
    Carb loading as a Clyde/Ahtena is not necessary. If you are a large person (given that most of that weight is excess) your body has a lot of stored energy as fat. Training your body without the extra intake of carbs for "energy" will give you quicker results.

    As far as "clean eating" goes, just don't drink soda, don't get your protein in the form of fast food hamburgers, and don't go crazy with the portions. Train your body to not need junk food, willpower is the best diet.
    This is excellent advice. I was addicted to soda much through my teens, using it for it's caffeine kick mostly. I blame the soda for ballooning to 225 pounds, before kicking the habit and improving my lifestyle with healthier food choices and regular exercise. I still don't believe some cyclists drink Coke on long rides, that seems like you're just asking for trouble. As for fast food hamburgers, the last time I stepped foot in a McDonalds or BK, was back in 2009? I don't miss it one bit. I now visit farmer's markets or produce stands instead, substituting a large fry for an apple or banana.
    Want to ride fast? Just ride with a slower group.
    Want to feel like a kid again? Dust off that old bike hanging in your garage!

  5. #55
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    I have been using a site called calorie count. It has a good forum, and info. This summer from 'eating clean' and lots of bicycling I lost 12 pounds. I want to lose 10 more

  6. #56
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    Good title for the thread- "CLEAN eating.

    Lots of interesting ideas/thoughts/comments/conjecture. I'm going to add more.

    I have been studying our food makeup. Where it comes from and whats in it. I'm appaled with what we easily get that is called "food." For cycocommute, I've been in chemical research and worked for Monsanto before it became evil. He really is right about HFCS and store bought honey. They are both crap, and about the same in composition. You all have undoubtedly heard the cry about "GMOs." Its a good cry and needs to be heard an acted on. GMO's are bad. Lets take Monsantos corn for example. The initial idea wasnt well thought out. Big M has this chemical called roundup. It was great for killing plants. It was great because after it killed the plant it broke down and didnt leave nasty stuff like say DDT. SO now they work on the plant a little and make it immune to Roundup. Unfortunately, making a plant that is hosed down with roundup that never gets broken down then CONSUMED by humans means roundup ends up in your body. There it wreaks havoc on your endocrine system and gut bacteria. Thats just one example. We see the charts all the time. A rise in diabetes. (I'm one of those statistics!) and other health problems such as we bring up in here- obesity. Your food is making you fat. Lets be more specific- Your crappy food is making you fat. Many of you have understood leaving behind the processed food, but even the less processed isnt good. Most meats of any kind at raised by giant farms that just feed their animals whatever it takes to make them fat because they get paid by the pound. You get those leftovers too. I saw a list of FDA recalls the other day. 80% of those recalls where Listeria contamination. I never even heard of Listeria until maybe 15 years ago! WHy is it such a problem now? Becusae of the way we get our food.

    Do what you can to get your food from people with a conscience that try to grow it for human consumption and not poison you. Farmers markets and small companies are the BEST and deserve our business. Make them rich, not the other guys who are trying to put small farms out of business.

    "Clean" food is healthy food and will make your body feel better and stay that way. I'm trying to figure out exactly how to do it, but just changing a few of my own food habits is finally making my pants fall down instead of getting tighter and I know I still eat too much.

    Anyone who PM's me I'll send you some links to what I consider good information on most of this. A friend of mine has been sending me her links, and 90% of them I debunk, and keep the rest.

    My best to all. Enjoy your food, health, and have a blast on two wheels.

    -SP

  7. #57
    Junior Member RaveLeTour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy25 View Post
    Do what you can to get your food from people with a conscience that try to grow it for human consumption and not poison you. Farmers markets and small companies are the BEST and deserve our business. Make them rich, not the other guys who are trying to put small farms out of business.
    You couldn't have said this better. This is the primary way to rid yourself of addictive/toxin riddled processed food. Its not conspiracy theory, its real. Buy local and organic and you will see changes in your body and performance on and off the bike.

  8. #58
    Senior Member LuckySailor's Avatar
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    Yep, did the Eat clean stuff for a while, did the wheat belly stuff, abs diet really to no avail.What does makes sense to me (now) is trying to get all of my nutritional needs from the proper original sources, ie, not in a processed form. I went to eatracker.ca and started tracking eveything that I eat on a daily basis. Down in the nutrional tab it gives you a breakdown of what you have consumed and shows you what vitamins/nutrients you're lacking or consuming too much of. So for instance, I don't add salt to anything that I eat as I already have high blood pressure and am on meds for it for 20+ years. As I keep track of my food consumption, there have been days that my sodium goes over the recommended daily allowance. With this info in mind, it now is easier for me to make modifications to my diet so that I consume less of what is bad and more of the good. So there is eat clean ideas here but that is not the mantra of the site. It is time consuming to use and get started with. But I found after using it, the first 6 weeks were the hardest because you're establishing your pantry (stuff you eat all the time). Once you start saving your foods to your pantry (high light the star) it make tracking things soo much easier. It got to the point of weighing and measuring my foods as well, because I found that I got pissed off that I wasn't meeting the goals I set out for myself. So then it helps you with portion control as well. Yep, it gets anal but then the portion size of our north american diet is stupid huge, which then gets us into food addictions, sugar, salt and fat. Ok, lets not go there today. Is this in the nutritional thread-I don't think so!...............

  9. #59
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    eating fat is not a problem

    eating both fat and carbs is the plague

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaveLeTour View Post
    You couldn't have said this better. This is the primary way to rid yourself of addictive/toxin riddled processed food. Its not conspiracy theory, its real. Buy local and organic and you will see changes in your body and performance on and off the bike.
    Processed foods are no more toxic or addictive than the alternatives. It is because of processed foods that malnutrition is not a real problem in developed countries anymore.

    The problem is eating too much, especially too much of things that our bodies are extremely efficient at storing.

    And GMOs are pretty awesome for the most part. Thanks to GM we have extremely drought resistant, disease resistant grains that can grow in some pretty inhospitable places so people who live in those places can eat.

  11. #61
    Senior Member billh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaveLeTour View Post
    No. Our bodies crave food because the average American eats massive amounts of "addictive" processed food. Your standard supermarket packaged food item is engineered to make you buy more, and to make you want to eat more.

    Read the book "Salt Sugar Fat" by Michael Moss. You can get a used copy on Amazon.com for $10. This book will change your diet forever.
    I'm with you . . . but I'm guessing addiction to modern processed food is linked to our genes which evolved to withstand periodic famines and die-outs . . .
    "The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one" JD Salinger, Catcher in the Rye, 1963

  12. #62
    Senior Member billh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    In terms of carbohydrates, yes. Yes they do. Honey has a few other minor components but honey actually has a slightly higher caloric content and a slightly higher carbohydrate content. But, overall, honey and high fructose corn syrup have the same composition. HFCS is used to adulterate honey because their composition is essentially the same.
    I remember something from organic chemistry called "enantiomers", that is two molecules may have the same chemical composition, ie. same number of carbon, oxygen, and nitrogen atoms, for example; but have slightly different 3D arrangements; the amazing thing is that different enantiomers have completely different actions in the body; like one is a vitamin and the other a poison. this is off the top of my head, and certainly no expert. but I'd be surprised if HFCS acts the same way . . . in the body . . . that natural sugars do. then again, maybe it's all an urban myth. who knows?

    King Corn was a great docu-drama. The guys actually tried making some HFCS in their kitchen. it's about an 8 hour protocol. they had to contact a chemist to get the "recipe", which went several pages long, and required some technical equipment. the idea was anything so complicated to make can't be good for you. It was very convincing. Also, interesting in that movie was that 99% of the corn we see in the fields tastes like sawdust, completely tasteless because it is produced for feed or to be turned into a corn product. They walked down the grocery aisle, and nearly every package had some highly processed corn product in it, usually based on HFCS.
    "The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one" JD Salinger, Catcher in the Rye, 1963

  13. #63
    just pedal donalson's Avatar
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    My wife went Gluten free about a year ago... changing nothing else and even with a serious back injury (that she had surgery for 2 weeks ago) she's lost prob 40#... but she has Celiac disease now that gluten isn't killing her intestines she can actually absorb nutrition like she should... that has been one nice thing about the tons of fad diets that have made finding Gluten free stuff in the US easier (in Europe it was so much easier)

    for me... meh... I just eat what sounds good... for breakfast I had a big bowl of frozen/steamed veggie mix... was yummy, for lunch it was stove top type stuffing and pork-n-beans
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  14. #64
    Klaatu..Verata..Necktie? genejockey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billh View Post
    I remember something from organic chemistry called "enantiomers", that is two molecules may have the same chemical composition, ie. same number of carbon, oxygen, and nitrogen atoms, for example; but have slightly different 3D arrangements; the amazing thing is that different enantiomers have completely different actions in the body; like one is a vitamin and the other a poison. this is off the top of my head, and certainly no expert. but I'd be surprised if HFCS acts the same way . . . in the body . . . that natural sugars do. then again, maybe it's all an urban myth. who knows?
    No, the glucose and fructose in HFCS are the natural enantiomers, so yeah, your body process them the same way.

    King Corn was a great docu-drama. The guys actually tried making some HFCS in their kitchen. it's about an 8 hour protocol. they had to contact a chemist to get the "recipe", which went several pages long, and required some technical equipment. the idea was anything so complicated to make can't be good for you. It was very convincing. Also, interesting in that movie was that 99% of the corn we see in the fields tastes like sawdust, completely tasteless because it is produced for feed or to be turned into a corn product. They walked down the grocery aisle, and nearly every package had some highly processed corn product in it, usually based on HFCS.
    Ever made Indian food?
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  15. #65
    That guy from the Chi Chitown_Mike's Avatar
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    I didn't read every post but I will say a couple of things.

    My wife and I did a hardcore primal/paleo diet. We didn't really lose any weight, but we stayed away from almost all grains. I did this and did a boot-camp style class. I didn't really lose any weight but I did build quite a bit of muscle. However my GI tract was a mess and I never really had normal BM's. My wife said she did great on it, but got pregnant with our first and the diet went out the window. I tried to continue to eat primal/paleo but got caught up with a newborn and not having time to cook. While the idea makes sense, it seemed a bit time consuming to ensure I have the food ready to cook or eat, and honestly I never really felt as good as other described the way I should have.

    Since about November 2012 I have been really watching my caloric intake AND what I eat. I have tried to avoid refined carbs, sugary treats, and highly processed foods and have lost 56 lbs in that amount of time. I have maintained a weight between 218-220 for the last about 4 months and haven't starved myself. I do give rooms for "allowances" in my diet, and even though I have not ridden like I want to (broken hand now so won't be riding for a month or so) I haven't gained any weight.

    I will say that the biggest boost in weight loss came from a genetic weight loss test I took a few years ago that pointed out the type of food and exercise that my genes are best suited for. When I applied that is when I lost the weight the fastest and easiest.

    I think fad diets are OK if you want to boost weight loss, or hit a goal, but they aren't sustainable I feel. For instance, I am considering doing a juice only fast starting January 1st and running to the 30th. I am doing a lot of reading between now and then. I know that if I do that I will probably see a dramatic loss of weight in that time, BUT I also know once I go back to eating I will have to regulate that harder then if I hadn't dieted like that. My goal isn't to just lose the weight, but also replace a meal a day with a juiced option. That is what I feel is missing, is people who follow a diet to lose weight will get off the diet completely at the end and gain the weight back. If people were to incorporate the major facets of the diet into their normal eating, I'd imagine the weight might come back a little but they wouldn't find it all coming back.

    Just my experience and 2 cents.
    Looking forward to my winter commuting adventure.....

  16. #66
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    It's clear from your post that you have a conservative approach with reasonable expectations.

    I can't say that for myself any longer since I am a true believer in the no grain, high fat lifestyle. Although I try not to preach, sometimes it just slips out and I wonder what in the heck is wrong with you people. :-)

    I'm curious how long did you did low-carb? It was a good couple of months before I adjusted.

  17. #67
    Senior Member LuckySailor's Avatar
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    Chitown-why would you want to do a juice diet? Pure fad. Not sustainable. Nothing scientific about it. And you know this already. I Just think it would be a waste of your time as you know that you'll end up gaining most or all of the weight lost, back. I'll give you an A for your effort, but an F for even thinking of doing it! And to be clear here, I'm not a nutritionist, but I am quite concerned about healthy eating and the effects of not eating the proper foods. If you're trying to loose weight, and want to be healthier, check out eatracker.ca. Track your foods and adjust accordingly. This way, you get the RDA of what you need, and you'll see real quick what it is that's killing your diet everyday.

  18. #68
    That guy from the Chi Chitown_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckySailor View Post
    Chitown-why would you want to do a juice diet? Pure fad. Not sustainable. Nothing scientific about it. And you know this already. I Just think it would be a waste of your time as you know that you'll end up gaining most or all of the weight lost, back. I'll give you an A for your effort, but an F for even thinking of doing it! And to be clear here, I'm not a nutritionist, but I am quite concerned about healthy eating and the effects of not eating the proper foods. If you're trying to loose weight, and want to be healthier, check out eatracker.ca. Track your foods and adjust accordingly. This way, you get the RDA of what you need, and you'll see real quick what it is that's killing your diet everyday.


    Actually I did a lot more reading into it, honestly I just need to push veggies and with a black hole for food with my 15 month old son and a pregnant wife I need something drastic to kick off more weight, but I think I will incorporate juicing/smoothies into my diet to increase my veggie intake. I don't have the time of day to eat as much as I want. But yeah I am leaning away from a full fledge juice-only diet.
    Looking forward to my winter commuting adventure.....

  19. #69
    Senior Member LuckySailor's Avatar
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    Habits are usually very tough to change. Especially the eating ones. I've done the try to incorporate smoothie thing as well. For us, it goes in cycles more than total change. Cleaning a blender 1,2,3 times a day gets old fast-but of course we do the dishes every day don't we? I've got a few years on you likely (you have have a 15 month old and one on the way-Lucky Man) My youngest is 13 and her brother is 26. So I am only sharing personal info, and nothing scientific. My highest weight was 219. I'm 201 today. That's nearly 3 years of weight loss. When I entered the USN in 1983 I was 185-and that was mostly muscle and 7% body fat. I (and likely you) didn't gain all that weight over night, or even after a couple months. It's years of just getting bigger and bigger, and our sqewed thoughts about food, beer, and smokes. I quit the smokes cold turkey. I dropped the coke from my rum cold turkey once I figured out that I don't drink Coke any other time, so why would I spoil my Rum with it! An unintentional bonus was that the alcohol consumption went way down, cause I drink it straight now. So usually 3-4 ounces is enough once a week now. Kinda cool. Now sugar, salt and fat, that's another problem, cause people gotta eat! BTW, Sugar, Salt and Fat is a must read book, and so is the book, The End of Overeating. Hopefully some motivation for you. Don't try to shed it in record time, man. Go slow and steady-just like you do with that wife of yours! Cheers.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by kc0bbq View Post
    Processed foods are no more toxic or addictive than the alternatives. It is because of processed foods that malnutrition is not a real problem in developed countries anymore.

    The problem is eating too much, especially too much of things that our bodies are extremely efficient at storing.

    And GMOs are pretty awesome for the most part. Thanks to GM we have extremely drought resistant, disease resistant grains that can grow in some pretty inhospitable places so people who live in those places can eat.
    That was my thoughts too. Sorry, not anymore. Malnutrition is STILL a huge problem since people cannot or will not eat a balanced diet. Buying quality food is still a problem for those on a low fixed income.

    Processed foods ARE addictive. Really! And they are toxic, especially to children. An example of this is the outrageous rise in Autism. Only in the USA is this a giant problem. Unsafe additives in foods disrupt hormonal balance in father/mother/child and cause a lot of problems. I used to think the behavior problems were mostly from inattentive parents, but its being proven that additives DO cause behavior problems.

    GMO foods were not created to be drought or disease resistant. They were created to be herbicide resistant, especially Roundup resistant. Roundup is a great product for killing plants because after absorbtion by the plant it is broken down into non-hazardous byproducts. Unfortunately, when GMO plants arew doused in roundup, they dont die. The roundup stays in its regular form, and then (GASP!) we eat it. Add to that roundup is also a bateriocide. You eat it, it kills bacteria in your gut, and the food you eat doesnt get processed and you have food absorbtion problems or stomach problems.

    My opinions about food were VERY different even a few years ago. I suppose I should assemble a database about all these subjects so I can actually quote some sources.

    Genejockey- glucose and fructose are NOT processed the same way! Glucose is absorbed into the bloodstream and used to fuel the body. Fructose cannot be absorbed and goes to the liver. The liver stores it as fat. HCFS can be a sole contributor to obesity on that alone. I credit HCFS as what altered my body and made me diabetic. When I told friends of my diagnosis, they gave me a look and remarked that I was neither overweight or sedate that most associate with diabetes onset. Well I was overweight, but not as bad as most.

    My sweetie and I are working on better ways to eat. Its not easy. I think the big turnaround for us was when her son developed epilepsy. A probably source of this problem was his mass consumption of beverages with aspartame. I'm watching labels more carefully to avoid it as much as I can.

    Eat healthier and enjoy your riding much more my friends.

    -SP

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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy25 View Post
    GMO foods were not created to be drought or disease resistant. They were created to be herbicide resistant, especially Roundup resistant.
    One category of GMO != All categories of GMO.

    Autism rates are higher pretty much solely because of changes in what is categorized as autism and the fact that we actually diagnose it now.

    Round-Up's half life in plants is the same whether or not the plant dies from it.

    Fructose totally can be absorbed into the bloodstream or it never would get to the liver in the first place.

    Too much of any sugar is bad. But that's any sugar. Eating the appropriate amount is what matters.

  22. #72
    Klaatu..Verata..Necktie? genejockey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy25 View Post

    Genejockey- glucose and fructose are NOT processed the same way!
    No, you missed the point.

    billh mentioned enantiomers and pondered whether this had anything to do with HFCS. I pointed out that both the fructose and the glucose in HFCS ARE the natural enantiomers, so they are absorbed the same way as the fructose and glucose (respectively) in honey, which I hope we can agree is a natural product.

    Speaking of natural products, sucrose is a dimer of fructose and glucose, so eating regular old table sugar means you're getting pretty much the same fructose/glucose ratio as with any HFCS.

    The problem is not that HFCS is higher in fructose than sucrose, because it isn't. It's CHEAPER than sucrose, but the real problem is that BOTH sucrose and HFCS are so prevalent. We eat way too much sugar.
    "Donít take life so seriousóit ainít nohow permanent."

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    there is no appropriate amount of sugar

  24. #74
    Klaatu..Verata..Necktie? genejockey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenA View Post
    there is no appropriate amount of sugar
    It's fuel, not poison. It exists naturally in any number of healthy foods like fruit. An appropriate amount is that amount which does not exceed your need for fuel, in a diet that provides all the other nutrients you need.
    "Donít take life so seriousóit ainít nohow permanent."

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    Around now and then DnvrFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kc0bbq View Post
    One category of GMO != All categories of GMO.

    Autism rates are higher pretty much solely because of changes in what is categorized as autism and the fact that we actually diagnose it now.


    Round-Up's half life in plants is the same whether or not the plant dies from it.

    Fructose totally can be absorbed into the bloodstream or it never would get to the liver in the first place.

    Too much of any sugar is bad. But that's any sugar. Eating the appropriate amount is what matters.
    Autism rates are higher because one can get funding for the treatment of autism. Many conditions which used to have different names are now diagnosed as "Autism" because it is often the only way that funding and treatment can be achieved. I.e., Pervasive Developmental Disability used to be a common diagnosis - or at least a descriptor - of a condition. Not so much now.
    DnvrFox - still bicycling, swimming, walking and weight lifting at 74yo is participating a bit in BFN 50+.

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