MRT2

True, but you get the build you want. That may or may not make a difference to the OP. When I bought my Salsa last year, I talked with the LBS about a build from the ground up, but decided against it. It was far cheaper to just swap a few parts off the stock build.

Edit:
I could imagine a scenario where OP wanted a steel road bike, say a Surly Pacer or All City Spacehorse or Mr. Pink, but wanted high spoke count wheels and upgraded tires, upgraded cranks, beefier seatpost, and even a mountain drivetrain, where a custom build might make sense.

ill.clyde

One suggestion (borrowed from another subsection of the forums) ... you're not far from Fort Worth ... there's a Performance Bike Shop there and they're blowing out all their 2013 inventory.

Nice thing about Performance is you can get "internet-ish" prices with similar service as you'd get from a local bike shop too.

Sizes might be limited, but worth checking out.

Example:

https://www.performancebike.com/bikes...21015__1821015

Edit to add ... with the money you save you could get higher spoke count wheels (Performance may even work with you on a swap, I'm not sure)

Wilfred Laurier

in general
building a bike part by part
is much more expensive
than buying a complete manufactured bike
even if you get a less expensive frame

the only exception is if you have time
to scour the interwebs and epay
for heavily discounted items

Jarrett2

I checked a few places recommended above. The Trek's I rode last week were 60cm which I guess is there XL size frame. Most of the local shops don't carry the larger bikes it seems.

I did find a new 2012 Giant Defy Composite 3 XL in stock at a local dealer that was in my price range. It appears they are $1650 new and they are at $1200.

Wilfred Laurier

if it fits you
then that would be a great bike

it comes stock with 24 and 28 spoke wheels ont he front and rear
respectively
you should consider having a trusted wheelbuilder
lace you up a set of 36 spoke wheels

something like shmiano tiagra or 105 hubs
laced to velocity dyad or some other sturdy rim

the shop might take the stock wheels as a trade in
against the price of the custom wheels
or they might not
but then you could sell them
or keep them for if you ever want to use them
or if you want to sell the bike and keep your custom wheels

mtalinm

I have a rear wheel built on a velocity dyad rim. it is 24mm wide so you can't really fit a 23c tire, but at our weight whowants to ? 25s are great. it's like a tank.


btw I only got the REAR wheel rebuilt. have never, ever had a problem with th3 front wheel on any of mybikes though I have broken rear spokes on most of them.

Jarrett2

I rode some more bikes this weekend, so far I've been on:

Trek Domane 2.0
Trek Domane 2.3
Trek Domane 4.0
Trek Madone 2.0
Giant Defy 5.0
Giant Defy Composite 3

So far my faves have been the Trek Domane 2.3 and the Giant Defy 5.0. The carbon fiber isn't wowing me as much as I would have thought. I was surprised how much I liked the $549 Large frame Giant Defy 5.0. It felt pretty good to me. Maybe a hair small, but more comfortable fit wise than riding the XL framed Composite Defy 3. I had to reach quite a bit to get into good position on the XL frame.

I'm interested in steel, but the local Surly dealer doesn't have anything in my size for me to ride other than a single speed tricross style bike they said. Which didn't sound terribly interesting. I'm going to go back and give the Domane's a second ride tonight.

Jarrett2

I had a couple of questions after this weekend:

If I liked both bikes, is there a compelling reason to go with a $1900 bike over a $550 bike for a Clyde?

Also, a salesperson told me this weekend that she had a customer my size that killed mountain bikes, but once she put him on a Dumane that he had no problems with the wheels. She assumed he was rougher on the mountain bike and only took the road bike on smooth roads. Anyone else find this to be the case and if so, does that change my need for bigger tires, stronger wheels?

Speaking of, what's a good tire size for a Clyde road bike? I think the ones I've been looking at are around 700x23/25.

That reminds me of another question I road with some rode bike folks this weekend and one of them went down in a fast turn. Back tire slid out. Is there a size where that is more prevalent?

Thanks for all the help so far, it is much appreciated.

ill.clyde

Regarding cost: hard to answer that question without knowing if the bikes are the same/similar, if they're not comparable it's hard to say.

Re: tires/wheels ... they'll react to how you take care of them I don't beat up my road wheels and they've taken good care of me. I replaced the stock wheels on my roadie with a set of Fulcrum Racing 7s and I've been very pleased with them. I don't baby them, but I also don't roll over/through everything that presents itself on a ride.

Tire size? Largely subjective. I think my current tires are 23s, but when I replace them prior to next season I'm seriously contemplating 25s. Most of what I've read on these forums lately makes me question if there's a significant trade off/improvement between 23s and 25s. As for the bike tire sliding out ... there's a lot of potential reasons for that happening, and tire size is just one. Was there gravel/sand on the road? Was the tire inflated properly? Was he flatting slowly? Was the tire in good condition?

Jarrett2

$550 was the Giant Defy 5, $1900 is a closeout Trek Domane 4.0.

I spoke to people after the fall and they said he has been falling a lot lately. We were going down what I considered to be a big hill around 30 MPH and they said his back wheel slipped once, then twice, then down. Almost took down some other riders. I went around the same turn on my hybrid at similar speeds and felt no issue. Just made me wonder about tire size.

MRT2

I ride a 700 x 32 so maybe I am not the guy to ask, but I would go for a 28c, if your new road bike has clearance for it. That is what we did with my wife's new Jamis road bike, though she is not a Clyde. But we bought it more for day or half day leisure rides than for pure racing or even fast club rides. (that said, if she were so inclined I don't see any reason a rider couldn't do fast club rides on a road bike with 28 c tires) My vew is, for comfort, versatility (for riding short stretches of rough roads or packed dirt, crushed limestone, or packed gravel), safety, and flat protection, it was worth the tiny weight penalty to go with the 28 c over the 23 or 25 c tire.

Jarrett2

I was planning on keeping my Trek DS 8.3 for more leisure rides. Where the new road bike would be for pushing myself on pavement mostly, occasionally trying to keep up with the faster riders on group rides.

ill.clyde

One is Aluminum, the other is CF ... not sure they're really comparable.

The Trek is a Tiagra groupset.

The Giant is Shimano's low end groupset.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

If you opt for the Defy, you're saving a lot initially, and you'll have money built into your budget for wheels, and improvements to contact points (saddle, pedals, bar tape, etc) AND money for shorts/jersey/helmet.

If you pop for Trek, you're probably (?) blowing your budget on the bike itself ... and little else.

The Defy will get you in the door and likely in the door comfortably. Make sense?

There's nothing wrong with it (my Trek has the low end Sora set and I ride it a lot and have had no problems in three years).

Jarrett2

Definitely understand on the financial standpoint, I'm wondering if quality and durability factors in. Meaning with the $550 Defy be as durable over the next year as the $1900 Domane. Right now I'm eying the Domane 2.3. I'm a little concerned about the IsoSpeed thing though, but not sure I want to spend the bucks to get into CF. I rode a 58cm Madone without the IsoSpeed over the weekend and didn't like it. 10 minute test ride and my back was hurting.

MRT2

Be wary the N + 1 trap, especially in your desire to save money by going for a bike with lower end components. You could find yourself next year outgrowing that bike and contemplating a higher end bike.

As for my versatility comment and riding on broken pavement, gravel, etc...that happens to us on our regular road rides. You don't always get to map out miles and miles of smooth pavement. Once this summer, my wife and I rode though all those obstacles (road under construction and stripped to the rough surface below the pavement, broken pavement, potholes, broken glass, gravel and sand at the edge of the road, and even some grass and dirt where we had to ride around some broken up MUP through a public park), all on one 28 mile loop. It doesn't happen every ride but when it does, it is good to know that your road bike tires can handle it.

ill.clyde

Why not consider upping yourself into the Defy 2 or 3 (seems like there's room in your budget)?

It seems (at least on the surface) you can get a bit better componentry on the Giants than on a Trek in the same price range and still have a little leftover for upgrades, etc.

Regarding CF ... and this is just my personal opinion, I don't think I'd ever personally reap any/enough benefits from going CF over Aluminum until/unless I get my butt down into the low 200s in terms of my weight. Plus, I don't want to "worry" about how I'm treating the CF frame.

Jarrett2

Looking on the site, it appears the Domane 2.3 has Bontrager R1 700x25c tires. Not quite 28's but more than 23's. I think it was a diff model I rode that had the 23's.

Jarrett2

I noticed this too. The shop that carries Giant is a bit far away and light on customer service. The shop that treats me the best is closer and only carries Trek and Specialized.

The more I ride them and think about it, the more I feel this way. But the sales people said you will start to appreciate the difference between aluminum and CF around the 20 mile mark.

MRT2

The $550 Defy will likely work fine for years, but you might get tired of it. Lower end components like Shimano Sora or even 2300 work well, but are heavier and not quite as crisp. If you are just getting into biking, a $550 bike is as likely as not to serve you just fine. Since you already own a quality bike, maybe just wait a year or two. Get a feel for your DS. Take it for club rides. While you probably won't hang with the hammers for long, you should be able to at least finish club rides on your DS.

When you upgrade, make sure you make a big upgrade, or you are likely to have a stable of $500 to $700 bikes in your garage or more likely, take a huge depreciation hit everytime you upgrade.

ill.clyde

Ahh ... well, the shop makes a difference, no doubt. What about the Trek Madone 2 series? They're aluminum and the 2.1 has 105/Tiagra componentry at MSRP of $1,429? Also have the CF fork which I think makes a big difference in comfort.

Eh ... I can't speak to the difference at longer miles ... again, until I'm in the low 200s I don't think there's enough of a benefit for me to justify CF over AL. My bike lust makes me want CF. But my head and years of experience tell me I'm doing just fine on my AL bike

Jarrett2

I rode one this weekend, didn't like it. Least comfortable bike out of all of them I have ridden.

ill.clyde

Looks like you're going to have to compromise somewhere

MRT makes good points about making a "good" upgrade ... Definitely worth thinking about.

FWIW I've had many, many (3,000+) happy miles on my Trek 1.2 ... it's by no means the sexiest bike around, wasn't terribly expenseive and it's a Sora equipped bike. But I smile a lot when I ride it.

Jarrett2

I'm planning on trading in my FX on the road bike, so still will just have two bikes in the garage. Yes, taking an ugly hit on the FX trade, but I'm lazy and don't want to deal with CL trying to eek out another $75 in a sale.

Regarding waiting two years, not happening I did a 30 mile ride with a nice group of road bikers in the Texas hill country this weekend and loved it. I was able to stay within a half a mile of them or so, but the whole experience really let me see the difference between riding a hybrid on the road and a road bike on the road. Now the itch is inflamed

Wilfred Laurier

there are few parts that are affected by weight
that are upgraded between an intermediate bike
and an expensive bike

the only one i can think of
is the wheel bearings
but i think you will likely have to upgrade the wheels
to something sturdier
on whatever you buy

one note of caution
23 and 25mm tires
are for racing or fast recreational riding
and at 300 plu pounds
you will have to keep them inflated rock hard
to avoid pinch flats

also
23 and 25mm wide tires
limit your riding to paved roads and trails
and any gravel will be a serious challenge
or impossible
so make sure you can get wider tires on whatever you buy

i think i made these reccomendations earlier
but i think they bear repeating

MRT2

Congratulations on finding your niche. In that case, buy the best level of quality road bike you can afford, making sure to budget for higher spoke count wheels, or at least a better back wheel, and I would repeat my recommendation of a 28 tire. Given that you are already pushing 125 to 150 lbs more than many skinny road bikers, a lb or 2 of heavier wheels and tires won't make much difference in speed, but it will make a huge difference in comfort and durability for you, allowing you to ride longer distances in relative comfort.

It is too bad your Surly dealer has so little you can test ride, as I really like my steel adventure/ touring bike. Rode it on several 35 to 50 mile club rides this season and had no problem finishing (though not finishing with the hammers of the group).