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-   -   Mavic wheel question (http://www.bikeforums.net/clydesdales-athenas-200-lb-91-kg/916584-mavic-wheel-question.html)

copswithguns 10-05-13 08:09 PM

Mavic wheel question
 
I have 2 questions on some wheels I was considering. I was in my LBS the other day and a young guy behind the counter was talking to me about upgrading my Allez groupset from the stock Sora to the 105 group. He told me the rear hub wouldn't be wide enough for the 10 speed cassette and I would need to upgrade wheels with a new hub. Not sure that sounds right though.

Second, I'm concerned about these wheels handling my weight. I'm just south of 300 lbs right now and they are only 20 spoke. The LBS owner says he has had a set for years and at 250 lbs he's never had any issues, I just don't wanna dump the $$ into them if the spokes are gonna aspolde.

Thoughts or suggestions?

http://www.sunadventure.com/product/...t-156084-1.htm

sstorkel 10-05-13 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copswithguns (Post 16136030)
I have 2 questions on some wheels I was considering. I was in my LBS the other day and a young guy behind the counter was talking to me about upgrading my Allez groupset from the stock Sora to the 105 group. He told me the rear hub wouldn't be wide enough for the 10 speed cassette and I would need to upgrade wheels with a new hub. Not sure that sounds right though.

Do you have the 8- or 9-speed version of Sora? Do you know which rear hub your bike uses? It doesn't sound out of the real of possibility that you might need a different rear hub in order to mount a 10-speed cassette.

Quote:

Second, I'm concerned about these wheels handling my weight. I'm just south of 300 lbs right now and they are only 20 spoke. The LBS owner says he has had a set for years and at 250 lbs he's never had any issues, I just don't wanna dump the $$ into them if the spokes are gonna aspolde.
At your weight, I'd be concerned about riding 20-spoke wheels that were hand-crafted by a master wheelsmith. Cheap Mavic Aksiums? I'd pass...

koolerb 10-05-13 11:01 PM

A friend of mine thats probably 250ish, bought a set that was 24 rear, 20 front. He kept breaking spokes on the rear wheel and ended up taking them off. Was not an expensive wheel set though.

Erwin8r 10-05-13 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sstorkel (Post 16136322)
Do you have the 8- or 9-speed version of Sora? Do you know which rear hub your bike uses? It doesn't sound out of the real of possibility that you might need a different rear hub in order to mount a 10-speed cassette.


At your weight, I'd be concerned about riding 20-spoke wheels that were hand-crafted by a master wheelsmith. Cheap Mavic Aksiums? I'd pass...

In reality, Mavik Aksium have an excellent reputation as a "Clyde" wheel--they're stiff and strong, and fare better under heavier riders than other, much more expensive wheels. They're a great choice. Are you saying your bike is equipped with Aksiums? If so, ride on! :thumb:

Crash_N_Carry 10-05-13 11:18 PM

I bought some Mavic Equipe's last year and they hold up to my weight just fine (I'm about 250lbs) and so far I've only had to get the rear wheel trued up only once. Although they aren't Mavic's top of the line they were a major step up from the Alexrims my bike came stock with. I couldn't tell you how the Aksium's are though overall, but they're using the same spokes that mine have, so I'd be really surprised if you have a problem.

What are you currently running for gearing right now? That doesn't sound right to me either since the hubs should be a standard size, and when you change rear cogs the spacers (and the thickness of the cogs themselves) would be either thicker or thinner depending on what you go to (i.e.: 9 speed to 11 speed, etc). I quickly looked up the specs on your bike and one of them states you could have an 8-speed though. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but if you really do have an 8-speed cassette, I'm pretty sure you have a standard rear hub size and that it could take a 10 speed cassette with no problems (and it's currently using a spacer). I'd be willing to bet a nickle that you could do a complete groupset upgrade and go to a 10 speed on your current wheels. In that case instead of upgrading the wheels to Aksiums, you could hold off for a while and upgrade to better wheels later when you can afford a better wheelset.

Crash_N_Carry 10-05-13 11:24 PM

BTW if you can take a photo of the rear cogs it may be apparent if it can take a 10 speed cog. I honestly don't remember where I read this but I remember reading that to use an 8 speed cassette some mfgs were using a spacer. I haven't seen a new 8-speed cassette on a relatively new bike, but to me logistically speaking it doesn't make any sense for a company to make a new wheel+hub that's specifically engineered to only work with a specific cassette only when the same thing can be accomplished with a $.05 spacer.

Then again, corporations have proven me wrong before though. :D

bobotech 10-05-13 11:27 PM

You are a big clyde. You are thinking of upgrading to the 105 group, why? What is the driving reason behind that? The Sora groupset is a perfectly serviceable and will shift just as well as a 105 or even ultrega or dura ace when it is properly tuned.

The ONLY real differences in groupsets is the weight and fnishes and to a lesser extent the materials used for them. The Sora may have more plastic and may not be as pretty but they shift just as well as the other groupsets when they are tuned. The 105 is like Sora with nicer finishes but still not super light. Then you get into the Ultegra and Dura Ace territory where you start losing weight. One thing, Dura Ace cassettes tend to not last as long as the lower series cassettes due to using alloys rather than plain steel for the cogs. Sure its lighter but they don't last as long.

I just wonder if you are throwing good money at something that really doesn't need to be upgraded. If you really don't need to upgrade, why bother?

copswithguns 10-05-13 11:57 PM

All good points. Yes, mine is an 8 speed cassette. I'll get a pic or two up here in a sec. I have my bike tuned pretty well. I mainly wanted the 105 for a little better shifing/faster shifting, and for the additional gears. I can spin out on some downhills around where I ride and could use a bit more top end. I also think (just my own theory) that perhaps my legs are long enough to justify a longer crank arm. Currently I have a 170mm and was thinking of upping that a bit. Bottom line: I want to go as fast as possible as soon as possible. Bobo you may be right about it being an unnecessary upgrade. I was originally going to swing for the new Ultegra 6800 set but have since decided that the 105 would do just fine.

Assuming I continue at the rate I'm going now, and I don't see why I won't, I won't be in the upper 200s for long. I'm only getting lighter and faster. I just want to go faster....well, faster. LOL

copswithguns 10-05-13 11:59 PM

2 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=344435http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=344436

Sorry for the bad quality, I took the pics with my iPad. Hoping that helps answer the question on the spacers.

copswithguns 10-06-13 12:03 AM

Maybe I'd be better of going with something like this with a 36h rear

bobotech 10-06-13 12:44 AM

Well you do have the older 8speed sora. Honestly, I would consider upgrading to 105 if you wanted brifters that didn't have the older Sora protruding thumb shifter that is mainly usable on the hoods. Upgrading from those older Soras to the 105 (even older 105 9 speed stuff) would be nice if you don't like the Sora thumb clicker.

If it were my bike and I was on a budget, I would just upgrade the rear cassette to a 9 speed, new chain (9 speed chains are cheap, like 17 dollars at Fred Meyer), and a set of 105, Tiagra, or Ultegra 9 speed brifters that I could find.

New cassette should be less than 30 dollars, new chain under 20, and you can find a nice set of brifters on ebay for around 150-175 or so.

You can use your current Sora rear derailleur, front derailleur, crankset, brakes, and they will operate just fine. Yeah it won't be all matchy matchy but it will be functionally nicer.

Currently, if you don't mind going the ebay route, 9 speed stuff is the sweet spot. Almost as cheap as the older 8 speed stuff yet new enough that it can be quite a bit nicer than the older 8 speed stuff. ONly thing is that you might need to go ebay for acquiring a nice set of brifters. ALL of my brifter equipped bikes are 9 speed with either 105 or Ultegra shifters.

I'm betting since you have a Sora 8 speed stuff, you have a triple. If so then most likely you have a long cage derailleur. Then you should be safe to go to like a 11/12 to 28t rear cassette which might help you out if you decide to upgrade.

Its funny, I have 5 road style bikes that i rotate and they have either 170 or 175 cranksets, I can't tell the difference at all from one to the next. I know some people can, but I just can't. They all feel the same to me.

socalrider 10-06-13 01:34 AM

If they are charging you 300.00 for that wheelset - it would be better to have something custom built on 105 or ultegra hubset. 36 hole using like a Velocity Deep V or DT Swiss rim or Mavic CXP33.. all these come in 36 hole option..

Do not go with the mavic open pro rim - at your weight you will have the eyelets crack within a year.. The new model open pros just do not last like the older models.

jazzgeek79 10-06-13 04:28 AM

I would go with a 32 or 36 hole rim myself. I don't think the weight savings of a few spokes will translate into a noticeable change in your speed. If you believe that the key to more speed for you is wider gearing than my question would be would you need a new rear wheel to go up to nine speed? If not then that would be a LOT cheaper than converting your bike to 10 speed. Bobotech says your current rear derailleur works for 9 speed. I bet it won't work for ten. So when you are factoring in the costs for ten factor in a new rear derailleur. Do you have a triple in the front? Is there a 10/3 set of brifters? How much are they? Just saying your not just looking at wheel costs going to ten, but you might be able to get away with a new cassette and brifters to go to nine. And sadly (for me and you) nothing will make you faster than loosing weight, and interval training. Its so much easier in the long run to lose ten pounds of fat than two pounds of bike. I bet if the two of us took on two pro racers and switched bikes with them first (us on the $6000 light weight race bikes them on your allez and my touring bike) we'd still lose. Having said that, it would be fun to at least test a super light bike.

lenny866 10-06-13 04:53 AM

What is the cost for the upgrades? This is a great time of the year to get a new bike!

Bill Kapaun 10-06-13 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copswithguns (Post 16136413)
........ I can spin out on some downhills around where I ride and could use a bit more top end. I also think (just my own theory) that perhaps my legs are long enough to justify a longer crank arm. Currently I have a 170mm and was thinking of upping that a bit.......

Maybe a simple cassette change? What cogs do you have now?

Depending on your leg length etc., a longer crank may slow down your cadence.

I find I get to my destination sooner if I rest on the downhills and save myself for the uphills.

sstorkel 10-06-13 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erwin8r (Post 16136338)
In reality, Mavik Aksium have an excellent reputation as a "Clyde" wheel--they're stiff and strong, and fare better under heavier riders than other, much more expensive wheels. They're a great choice. Are you saying your bike is equipped with Aksiums? If so, ride on! :thumb:

Older versions of the Aksium, perhaps the ones that people used to recommend for Clydes, had more spokes. If you've been in this forum for any length of time, you must know that the number of machine-made 20-spoke wheels recommended for uber-Clydes approaches zero. Based on the other low-end Mavic wheels I've seen recently, I wouldn't trust the Aksium... and I weigh half (well, almost ;)) what the OP does!

My suggestion for the OP would be to take the $329 he would have spent on a set of Aksiums and have a single rear wheel hand-built by someone who knows what they're doing (ex: not your average LBS mechanic).

sstorkel 10-06-13 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copswithguns (Post 16136413)
Bottom line: I want to go as fast as possible as soon as possible.

Buy yourself a power meter, a Garmin, and start doing intervals. A new grouppo won't make you any faster...

Erwin8r 10-06-13 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sstorkel (Post 16137059)
Older versions of the Aksium, perhaps the ones that people used to recommend for Clydes, had more spokes. If you've been in this forum for any length of time, you must know that the number of machine-made 20-spoke wheels recommended for uber-Clydes approaches zero. Based on the other low-end Mavic wheels I've seen recently, I wouldn't trust the Aksium... and I weigh half (well, almost ;)) what the OP does!

My suggestion for the OP would be to take the $329 he would have spent on a set of Aksiums and have a single rear wheel hand-built by someone who knows what they're doing (ex: not your average LBS mechanic).

Only since 2008... :). But that is meaningless. Meaningful is others' experience with the Aksiums. Pretty solid wheel for us Clydes. I'd agree that a custom-built 36h wheel can be made sturdier (with proper assembly), but that doesn't change the fact that the Aksium (and Equipe and Ksyriums) are proven strong wheels.

But no sense debating this one--this is just my opinion based on my experience (and not a little reading)with the above-mentioned. YMMV :)

copswithguns 10-06-13 10:25 AM

Lots of good info here, thanks again. No, mine is a double, not a triple. Honestly, the $$ isn't an issue, at least not as far as pulling the trigger on an upgrade. I don't, however, think I could feel comfortable with myself spending $3000 on a new carbon bike with Ultegra gruppos on it (though that would be sweet). I like my Allez. I love working on my bike. I think it would be challenging and rewarding to buy a whole set of components and install them myself. I taught myself how to adjust derailleurs and what not by watching youtube vids and from the Park Tools website. I enjoy doing it on my own.

From what I gather, the mechanical differences between the 105 and Ultegra and even Dura Ace components are almost 0. I'm good with the 105 stuff. It seems to be a great training set and I have no doubt they will last me a good while.

I have decided to hold off on the 20h cheap Mavics. I'll do some more research and probably go with some 36h that are lighter than the stock wheels on my bike, which shouldn't be hard. I think these wheels are just about 3000g.

phread59 10-13-13 09:37 AM

I just got a set of Mavic CXP22's laced to 105 hubs from Amazon. I believe they are machine built my Wheelmaster. I just gave them my first run last night. I got the 32 spoke version. They do sell a 36 spoker. But I'm only 190# so I didn't think the extra 4 spokes would mean much.

I only got about 5 miles on them. I'm running Specialized Espiore blackbelts on the wheels with lightweight Spesh butyl tubes. They seem to have a good ride to them. They do seem a tad harsh on big bumps. But they doo feel tighter than the previous wheels(Gipiemme Grecal Parade's 16 spoke). They even feel tighter than the DT Swiss 2 on my Rubaix(24 front 32 rear). I am very impressed after the short ride I had on them. I'll give them a good run next weekend, weather permitting.

I'd venture to say they are a good bang for the buck. And as for the 105 upgrade. Id do that. And go with the medium cage 105 rear. I think that would be the best for flexability. You won't run out of chain wrap with a bigger rear cassette. I'd look into a 12-30 or 11-30 myself. Good all around gearing set up.

Mark Shuman

TrojanHorse 10-13-13 12:51 PM

I'd skip the wheel upgrade... and by that I mean "upgrade". :)

As for the 105 upgrade, AFAIK 8, 9 and 10 speed Shimano drive trains all use the same width hub and are all completely interchangeable (with the notable exception of the first Dura Ace 10 speed group, they had different hub splining. I skipped 8 speed though, so I could be off. 7spd had 126mm hubs and 8, 9 10 all use 130mm, and just used a narrower chain each time. 11 speed also uses a 130mm hub but the actual cassette body is wider to fit in all those cogs, so the overall hub width is the same but the amount of hub available for cassette is wider. You can use 8, 9 or 10 speed cassettes on an 11 speed hub with a spacer (Campy is different of course)

Axiom 10-13-13 03:00 PM

They are a great set of wheels and should hold your weight fine (they held my weight at 280), but the $300 price tag is asking too much. You can find 'take-off' pairs of eBay for half of that and have hardly any miles on them. Although you'd probably feel much more comfortable on the second set you linked. These are also another great choice:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-105-...item3a6e4a6c68

BoJaffa 10-13-13 08:51 PM

I would upgrade to the 105.. It's a work horse groupset for sure and will last a long time. As for the wheels, I have a set of Mavic Kysiriums that are 12 years old and have been bomb proof. I also ride a set CXP33's 32 hole on Ultegra hubs on a back up bike. Also very reliable. Most of my cycling over the years has been spent in the 230 pound area. I think if you ride smart and don't abuse those wheels they will work for you. Another option would be to get some 105 hubs and CXP33 hoops and have some wheels built. The matching hubs would be a nice touch to your new groupset.

LocoCycle 10-14-13 02:16 PM

so I read most of this thread...like always lots of great advice etc. Here is a true story just happened to me in the last two weeks. I was cleaning my bike lubing the chain etc. So I have Mavic Equipe wheelset. Got them almost two years ago brand new on a closeout from Performance Bike. Rear has 20 spoke count and the front 18. The front has been rock solid...period!!!! The rear until a few weeks ago...the same. So while cleaning the rear wheel I noticed about every other spoke small crack where the spoke comes into the hoop. Bottom line rims toast. So I rode about 22 months almost 8k miles on these rims no problem what so ever...nor even a broken spoke!! The bottom line is this weight and spokes is what is all about to me. I am now running a Ritchie wheel set...24 spoke up front and 28 in the rear. Will see what happens. And I weighed about 215 to 225lbs during the time frame mentioned. Good luck on your choices...and ride on!

ill.clyde 10-14-13 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sstorkel (Post 16137068)
Buy yourself a power meter, a Garmin, and start doing intervals. A new grouppo won't make you any faster...

This times infinity.

If you want to upgrade the wheels, sure, I could see that, but the entire grouppo? No need. At least not right now.

As for wheels, I wouldn't ride 20 spoke rears ... mine are 24 (Fulcrum Racing 7s) and they've been solid.

Invest your time and money into riding lots first. The biggest improvement you can make in terms of speed and distance are improving the engine



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