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  1. #1
    Senior Member mtalinm's Avatar
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    rim for PowerTap wheel - DT 465 vs. 585? or pay more for Velocity

    Been using a PowerCal HR-based power meter for a year or so, but I just don't believe it. I think it is calibrated for someone weighing 100# less than me (280).

    I was about to plunk down $700 for the Stages crank-based power meter but then realized I'd be locked into a particular crankset going forward. Then I saw that for an extra $50 I can get a PowerTap-hub wheel:

    http://www.wheelbuilder.com/special-...p-package.html

    I sort of need a stronger rear wheel anyway, have broken a spoke and also cracked the rim on my Domane (under warranty, thankfully).

    Only thing I'm wondering is which rim to go with. They say a DT Swiss 465 is plenty strong, but the 585 looks more like the famed Deep V (which they also have, for another $200 - not on special).

    They also have the Velocity family, including one of the Off-Center rims (A23) that Peter White says helps to reduce the dish and make the wheel stronger. Also for another $200.

    Thoughts? I'm inclined to do the DT 585 rather than spring an extra $200 for a velocity rim. Had a Velocity Dyad wheel anyway and it wasn't great.
    Last edited by mtalinm; 12-24-13 at 11:38 AM.
    Trek Domane 4.5 (commute/distance), Specialized Roubaix (climber), Xootr Swift (winter/travel), Trek Soho (around town)

  2. #2
    Senior Member adrien's Avatar
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    585 is very burly, and has a nicer seam than Deep-Vs. Should be plenty strong...
    "how do you know you can't swim until you have drowned?"

  3. #3
    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    Every time I go to wheelbuilder and fuss around designing up some wheels, the 465s come up as "probably oughta skip these, big boy"

    Get the 585 in at least 32 cross and enjoy. I can't for the life of me imagine why velocity rims would be more expensive. The actual rim cost of a 585 is maybe 70 or 80 and a velocity deep v is usually around 50 (my memory is foggy) so I'm not clear what is demanding an extra $200 for either of them.

    Also watch out for the "does not include a front wheel" caveat on some of those.

  4. #4
    Senior Member mtalinm's Avatar
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    This builder is just having a special on the DT Swiss. Might be too much inventory. Happy news for me - a sturdy wheel with a powertap for basically the retail price of a powertap.

    Btw is there any reason to favor an asymmetric rim over a deep one? Peter White has said that the Velocity Synergy asymmetric is quite good, though I think that is for wider-ish tires. They seem less common.
    Trek Domane 4.5 (commute/distance), Specialized Roubaix (climber), Xootr Swift (winter/travel), Trek Soho (around town)

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtalinm View Post
    Btw is there any reason to favor an asymmetric rim over a deep one? Peter White has said that the Velocity Synergy asymmetric is quite good, though I think that is for wider-ish tires. They seem less common.
    I've never owned a set of Deep V wheels, though I do own a PowerTap wheel that uses the 30mm deep Kinlin XR-300 rim. I also hand-built a set of wheels for my touring bike using the Velocity Synergy OC rims front and rear.

    The off-center drilling leads to amazingly even tension across the drive and non-drive spokes. I can't help but think this will lead to a stronger wheel, though I have nothing to prove that. Anecdotally, my Synergy OC wheels have needed less truing than any other wheel I've owned! They were the first wheels I ever built myself, so the difference in sturdiness isn't due to the wheel builder The smallest tire that Velocity recommends for the Synergy rims is 700x25. The smallest tire I've actually used is 700x28. Since my Synergy rims are used on my touring bike, they're typically wearing 700x35 or 700x32 tires. In terms of stiffness, I really don't notice any difference between my 32-spoke Synergy OC wheel and my 28-spoke Kinlin-300 wheel, though I'm quite a bit lighter than you are.

  6. #6
    Senior Member adrien's Avatar
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    I've three pairs of wheels with deep dish alloy rims:

    Deep V / Ultegra, 36 3x rear and 28 2x front. Second pari, built up as winter wheels. First pair wore out at 12,000 miles. Very solid, very reliable, very boring wheels. Deep Vs are on the soft side, and the seam is not great. Retired the first set at 12 k because the braking surface was shot. Not my favorite wheels, except I like riding them for a while so I feel like a pro when I put my main summer set back on.

    DT 585 / DA hubs, 32, 3x front and rear. Rims are very nicely built, very even braking surface, nice seam. These should go a very long time. A little more lively than the Deep Vs, hold tension better and more round out of the box. Heavy, but don't feel it on the bike. DA is eerie -- smoooooth and silent. Got the dark silver finish -- very pretty.

    Ambrosio FCS28 / CK R45, 32, 3x front and rear, with CX-ray spokes. Holy W$%^@$. Don't buy into the notion that clyde wheels can't be lively. Loys of responsiveness to power (that's the r45s mostly), a nice mix of strength and a bit of spring (CX rays) and the prettiest deep rims I've seen. The Ambroisios have a spoke anchor layer BELOW the surface of the V of the rim. This makes them very strong, and the "point" of the V can be much char per as a result. Also, best braking surface I've ever used. Just had these looked at after 2,500 miles. Zero wear visible.
    "how do you know you can't swim until you have drowned?"

  7. #7
    Senior Member Bill Kapaun's Avatar
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    I built a rear wheel with the Velocity Synergy OC for my old Rockhopper.
    According to spocalc-(using my specific hub and 132mm dropout spacing)
    With OC rim, NDS spoke tension is about 85% of DS tension.
    With a standard rim, it's about 63%.

  8. #8
    Senior Member mtalinm's Avatar
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    Incredibly helpful, thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by adrien View Post
    I've three pairs of wheels with deep dish alloy rims:

    Deep V / Ultegra, 36 3x rear and 28 2x front. Second pari, built up as winter wheels. First pair wore out at 12,000 miles. Very solid, very reliable, very boring wheels. Deep Vs are on the soft side, and the seam is not great. Retired the first set at 12 k because the braking surface was shot. Not my favorite wheels, except I like riding them for a while so I feel like a pro when I put my main summer set back on.

    DT 585 / DA hubs, 32, 3x front and rear. Rims are very nicely built, very even braking surface, nice seam. These should go a very long time. A little more lively than the Deep Vs, hold tension better and more round out of the box. Heavy, but don't feel it on the bike. DA is eerie -- smoooooth and silent. Got the dark silver finish -- very pretty.

    Ambrosio FCS28 / CK R45, 32, 3x front and rear, with CX-ray spokes. Holy W$%^@$. Don't buy into the notion that clyde wheels can't be lively. Loys of responsiveness to power (that's the r45s mostly), a nice mix of strength and a bit of spring (CX rays) and the prettiest deep rims I've seen. The Ambroisios have a spoke anchor layer BELOW the surface of the V of the rim. This makes them very strong, and the "point" of the V can be much char per as a result. Also, best braking surface I've ever used. Just had these looked at after 2,500 miles. Zero wear visible.
    Trek Domane 4.5 (commute/distance), Specialized Roubaix (climber), Xootr Swift (winter/travel), Trek Soho (around town)

  9. #9
    Senior Member adrien's Avatar
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    Sorry about all the typos. PM me if you want more info, photos, etc.

    One more idea -- wider rims. I have a set of H PLus Son Archetypes on the fixed gear, and am very fond of them. Very nice feel with a harder tire.

    Pictures below -- H plus sons on the fixed gear, DT 585s on the Road bike (black rims), Ambrosios on the road bike (silver rims).
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "how do you know you can't swim until you have drowned?"

  10. #10
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    A little late to the party here, but IMO the DT Swiss RR 585 rim is a better rim than the Velocity Deep V. Better formed, better seam, better machining.

    That you an get it cheaper makes it a no-brainer.

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