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-   Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) (http://www.bikeforums.net/clydesdales-athenas-200-lb-91-kg/)
-   -   Is there such a thing as a comfortable saddle (http://www.bikeforums.net/clydesdales-athenas-200-lb-91-kg/927533-there-such-thing-comfortable-saddle.html)

HIPCHIP 12-27-13 03:50 PM

Make sure you have a good bike fit, a good pair of shorts with good padding, and find a shop that knows how to fit a saddle. Measure your "SIT" bones and find their width, then look for a saddle with that dimension.

JohnJ80 12-27-13 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pakiwi (Post 16361600)
I have been considering doing a professional fit. I have my old steel bike which I did the three centuries in three days so know it's was comfortable but that was three kids and too many calories ago. The new bike to me which I tried to measure the old bike and get the new one dialed in.
Allan


^this.

Make sure you do it at a bike shop that is going to work with you on seats and fit.

Bike fit, for me, was sort of a mess until all of a sudden my LBS fitter hit it perfectly after iterating in on the fit. Then a lot of problems went a way. From there, it's easy to fine tune things and to experiment but if you don't have it right, you are sort of flailing away and will have unpredictable results. Everything is interrelated and a lot of it is counter intuitive. It's not a good idea to find the "edges of the envelope" from outside.

As far as saddles go, to give you an idea, I probably have $1000 in saddles that I've tried and didn't work and sold. Saddles that I loved when I was 25 just don't work when I'm 50 - bike fit changes as does your body. What I found worked well for me are saddles that are wider, flat and have a full length cut out. The best one I've found are the Koobi's (http://www.koobi.com) and I just love 'em - but everyone has to find their saddle.

In general, wider is better than narrow unless it chafes the inside your legs, flatter is better than hammock shaped so you can move around and adjust your position. I find that full length cutouts work really well if properly built and think it's a good idea for most everyone. You just don't want to be pressuring a lot of the soft tissue in the perineum area. There's a lot of blood vessels, nerves and other plumbing that runs through there that needs to be protected. If you get the fit wrong here, it can be a big issue in a hurry.

Also, what I've found, is that the seat that worked for you at 15 miles probably won't work at 40 miles. The only way to find out is to ride it, see what happens and then work through it with your fitter.

J.

Silvercivic27 12-27-13 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pakiwi (Post 16361734)
Thanks. Good information.
Going to take a look at fitters in the local area.
Just wondered if there is such a thing with my increased weight.
Allan

Again, you really don't weight that much. If you were 400 lbs, it may be a different story. I'm 230# and I'm perfectly comfortable in the saddle for many (4+) hours, so it is definitely possible. Don't give up.

sstorkel 12-27-13 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HIPCHIP (Post 16362259)
Measure your "SIT" bones and find their width, then look for a saddle with that dimension.

I've done this and personally think it's a complete waste of time. Specialized is the only company I know of that makes any sort of reliable measuring device (the ass-o-meter). Their device is calibrated to their saddles. Every saddle manufacturer measures saddle widths differently, so knowing which sized Specialized saddle you should ride may or may not help you pick a saddle from a different manufacturer.

HIPCHIP 12-27-13 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sstorkel (Post 16362748)
I've done this and personally think it's a complete waste of time. Specialized is the only company I know of that makes any sort of reliable measuring device (the ass-o-meter). Their device is calibrated to their saddles. Every saddle manufacturer measures saddle widths differently, so knowing which sized Specialized saddle you should ride may or may not help you pick a saddle from a different manufacturer.

If you know the width of your SIT bones, you can find a seat where the middle of the back padding is the same width, so you can measure that on any saddle. The SIT bones are what supports your weight, so knowing this width should give you an idea of seats to check once you find the proper width. You just need to lay on your side, find the bones with your fingers, then get someone to measure their width....then buy them a beer and/or dinner! ;)

Pakiwi 12-27-13 08:27 PM

I can feel the sit bone being supported on the Selle Italia. It's just after about 5 mins the bone starts to get what feels like pressure directly on it. Then I do a shuffle either forward or back to put pressure on another spot.
The boys don't get numb and that area seems quite fine.

Silvercivic27 12-27-13 08:53 PM

The fact of the matter is that most human pelvises (pelvi?) fit within a pretty narrow range. That's why I feel that measuring the sit bones is not very useful. Most saddles are going to be wide enough. It may be too wide if the saddle chafes you inside your thighs, but I think that will be a relatively rare situation. Take a look at this article from Cervelo. It will put things in better perspective. As you're 5'6", you probably fall in the smaller side of the scale, meaning that a 130 or 140mm wide (sit bone + 20mm) saddle, which is most saddles, will be fine. Seriously, don't overthink this.

http://www.cervelo.com/en/engineerin...-saddles-.html

sstorkel 12-28-13 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HIPCHIP (Post 16362863)
If you know the width of your SIT bones, you can find a seat where the middle of the back padding is the same width, so you can measure that on any saddle. The SIT bones are what supports your weight, so knowing this width should give you an idea of seats to check once you find the proper width. You just need to lay on your side, find the bones with your fingers, then get someone to measure their width....then buy them a beer and/or dinner! ;)

So, if my sit bones are 120mm apart and I want to buy a new WTB saddle which of their 34 different saddle models would be best for me? Or, alternatively, which of their model lines should I eliminate from consideration based on my sit bone measurement?

HIPCHIP 12-28-13 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sstorkel (Post 16363332)
So, if my sit bones are 120mm apart and I want to buy a new WTB saddle which of their 34 different saddle models would be best for me? Or, alternatively, which of their model lines should I eliminate from consideration based on my sit bone measurement?

I couldn't tell you. You'd have to have the seats available and measure the area in the rear to see what fit in the 120mm range. If the specs don't show you widths, then you'd have to find a place that had a seat and check it that way. It's just a way to find a seat that fits you as compared to the trial and error way by mounting and testing seats that won't fit from the beginning. You want the middle of the padded area to be in the 120mm area so you have plenty of support on all sides, but you may be able to get away with some leeway depending on how you fit the seat. This is coming more from a medical standpoint than a bike fit expertise. A good fitter may know more.

Silvercivic27 12-28-13 07:32 AM

Ok, so here's also my take on sit bone measurement. I think that it is very difficult to measure accurately without imaging. Measuring your sit bones by sitting on cardboard or using a Specialized tool, especially for a Clyde is like asking us to measure our waist with a winter outfit on. I really doubt the accuracy. I think the only way to get a good measurement (while alive) is to measure off of an X-ray or CT scan, and most people haven't had that done. 120mm seems reasonable, and is right around 50th percentile. I think most "measurements" will actually err on the size of being too big, because it's the size of your bones that are important, not bone + soft tissue (of which us Clydes have disproportionately more). As per the above article, the size of WTB or whatever other brand you're looking for, should be your sit bone width + 20, so around 140mm. In other words, just because you may wear an XL bib does not necessarily mean you need a saddle in the larger range, especially for a Clyde.

irwin7638 12-28-13 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -VELOCITY- (Post 16361132)
I agree. I've owned 2 B-17's and they are great. Though the first one was more comfortable for some reason. Maybe because I was lighter.

http://www.hiawathacyclery.com/cart/...G_0522_500.jpg

I agree, there is nothing like leather for me. I have had a couple of Brooks, a couple of Velo Orange saddles which were nice and am now trying a Selle Anatomica which seems great so far. I'm 6' and generally between 210-220#.

Marc

Pakiwi 12-28-13 07:55 AM

Ok looked at the Cervelo link. Very interesting and I have to say I'm glad I'm not a female.
i left out one important thing in my original description. I am currently on a trainer due to the weather. It seems this puts even more pressure because you don't move around as much. One comment was he would much rather not have a saddle than have one on the trainer. I had been riding for an hour and had a little discomfort but not anything like I am getting on the trainer.
i even read that a good saddle for the road is quite different from one on a trainer. That was from the koobi site.
Just have to get through winter and see how these saddles do on the road. We have a high of 50 degrees so might go for an hour ride to see how things work out with the Selle Italian which is the least painful of the four in the house.
allan

Myosmith 12-28-13 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvercivic27 (Post 16361357)
Ha ha, bicycling magazine as a reputable source, that's a good one.

Though I dropped my subscription to the magazine, their website does have links to a number fairly decent bicycle fitting and maintenance videos on You Tube. Better than a lot of the Bob in his Basement cellphone videos. I'm not suggesting that this is a replacement for a professional fitting, but if someone doesn't have access to or money for a pro fitting, you can usually get in the ball park using other resources. From there you fine tune based on the results. One mistake that is often made is to make multiple changes, big changes, or replacing components without understanding the problem.

Another mistake is to assume that once you have a bike set up just right, you will never have to change any adjustments or that you can just take measurements and transfer them to another bike. You want to write down all of your adjustments and return your bike to them after maintenance, but as your fitness, flexibility, and even age change, you will probably find the need to tweek them a bit. Don't tweek randomly, just make small well-thought-out adjustments in response to problems that crop up.

I should have added Sheldon Brown as a reputable website for information as well.

Silvercivic27 12-28-13 08:36 AM

That's true, I guess it was a jerky thing to say about Bicycling magazine, and I apologize. I do think, though, that there is no substitute for, and nothing will reduce your frustrations more than just giving in, spending the money and getting a true, professional fitting from a *certified* bike fitter, such as Retul, FIST, etc., not just some guy who's going to charge you a professional fee who's (self-proclaimed) really good at fitting.

indoor cycling on a trainer comes with it's own set of issues. Almost anything is going to start to get uncomfortable after an hour or so. The easiest solution is simply to stand more frequently. When on the trainer, you never take breaks at red lights, coast, stand for hills, etc. also, the position of the bike is fixed, so you are constantly sitting on the same spot. Some solutions may make this better such as riding rollers, or a Kurt Kinetic Rock and Roll, but for most of us, the solution is to take a break or simply to stand more frequently. Typically, I try to stand staring at around 30 minutes into my workouts, for about 30 seconds every 5 minutes. Makes a world of difference. Hope this all helps you.

Pakiwi 12-28-13 09:47 AM

Yes it does. Just got back from an hour ride. But feels fine so it's simply the trainer. My lungs were the weak link on this ride. But feels fine and that is on the Selle Italia gel. I am obviously going to have to work on my technic inside. As there won't me much weather like today's which is in the 40's. Appreciate everybody's input.
Allan

HIPCHIP 12-29-13 10:00 AM

Just as a matter of reference, my height is between 5'6 3/4" and 5'8" (due to bad disks, but I average a little over 5'7"). When I got my first road bike, with bike and saddle fit, I weighed 190 LBS. My weight went up to 245 and now I'm back down below 215. I can still find my SIT bones easily and my seat is still very comfortable even with all these different weights. I've tried gel pads on seats, different seat positions, etc, but it wasn't until I was measured during the bike fit and I rode several different saddles that I finally found one that worked. I purchased the exact same saddle and put it on my, at that time, 18 year old mountain bike, which I had previously tried all the different saddles on. I also adjusted the bike fit on my MTB to be approximately the same as my road bike. For the first time in 18 years I could actually ride my MTB and not be in pain, so I would have to say that a bike fit, including several different saddle trials, will probably be the most benefit. The SIT bones are just a part of the whole fitting experience, but I notice that even a thin saddle works fine as long as my SIT bones are in the correct location.

loky1179 12-29-13 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pakiwi (Post 16360576)
Any advice or is it a suck it up and ride.
Cheers
Allan

I'm not a Clyde (yet), so I can't give you specific recommendations, but I will say that if you DO find a saddle that works, buy a couple of them. Manufacturers change their designs all the time, and suddenly that saddle that worked so well for you is no longer available.

I'm using a Vetta TT Trishock saddle, that were sold in the early '90s. I liked it, and bought four of them, and have them on all of the various bikes that I ride a lot.

I picked up a couple new saddles this year that I thought I'd try out. I figured since I'm riding a lot more now, maybe my butt was toughened up. Nope, one ride on an old Turbo, and some kind of anatomical saddle, and I was in pain. Went right back to the Vetta.

Good luck.

Pakiwi 12-29-13 01:37 PM

I am a tech geek so thought I would see what apps are out there as well as find out where the closest fitters are.
Found this App which I downloaded to my Apple and a review is here. http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/10/a...nt-review.html
i was really impressed with this app and quickly determined some things that I may look at. Cost is $2.99
i need to adjust my handlebar angle, raise my seat and shorten my reach to the drop bars.
i have found a bike fit place 40 miles from here and a Specialized fitter a few miles away. I am getting a quote from the local shop. The bike fitter charges $95
i will make some changes based on the app and see how I feel to at least get it in the ball park.
My arm angle was 178 ( recommended 150-160)
Knee angle max 118 (recommended 141-145)
knee angle min 56 (recommended > 70)
Allan

Bronze Potato 12-30-13 09:05 AM

Not one mention of core strength or flexibility and learning how to sit on a bike and not sitting on a saddle?

It's not a bar stool.

Shame.

IAMAMRA 12-30-13 09:16 AM

I have a specialized body geomotry that was very comfy, I will sell it to you if your interested.

exile 12-30-13 08:03 PM

I think the app will help, but if you have the funds, then go to a respected fitter who will take the time to look at everything. Since the app only looks at you from the side, it is only giving one point of view.

For example the person I went to changed a couple of things that the app would most likely fix (saddle height, fore/aft positioning, shorter stem); but also measured my handlebars and recommended a wider bar with shorter drop. They also watched me from behind as I rode on their trainer and noticed some imbalances (I tend to rock towards one side as I rode).

We never got into saddles because I prefer leather saddles (I have the VO Model 5 on my touring/commuting bike & VO Model 3 on my hardtail/commuting bike).

Pakiwi 12-30-13 09:52 PM

The app also has a front view that you can take three measurements from. I have emailed the local LBS and an going to set up a fit using their Specialized fitter. It's worth it to not be in pain and to maximize comfort for my century.
allan

iforgotmename 12-31-13 10:22 AM

Not the most long lasting saddle but a Selle Anatomica is comfy out of the box. I have two Titanico X saddles which I love. They lasted about a year and a half (10/11 thousand miles) before I am about out of adjustment. I do ride them hard in all weather conditions. I just put an NSX on my mtb bike and find it comfy while wearing my bibs. They are having a sale right now. http://www.selleanatomica.com/

RedC 12-31-13 02:25 PM

When I started riding a road bike 5 years ago my saddle was killing me and all my friends gave me suggestions on saddles ( I think I own 6 now) except one friend who was 70 yro and an experienced cyclist. He askied me how many miles I had and I would tell him 300 or 400 or whatever it was and he would say it's not the saddle it's your arse keep riding. Sure enough after about 1500 miles the saddle ceased to be a problem. I'm riding Adamo now, but I still have a Specialized Body Geometry and a Selle Anatomica and several more

Pakiwi 12-31-13 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedC (Post 16370783)
When I started riding a road bike 5 years ago my saddle was killing me and all my friends gave me suggestions on saddles ( I think I own 6 now) except one friend who was 70 yro and an experienced cyclist. He askied me how many miles I had and I would tell him 300 or 400 or whatever it was and he would say it's not the saddle it's your arse keep riding. Sure enough after about 1500 miles the saddle ceased to be a problem. I'm riding Adamo now, but I still have a Specialized Body Geometry and a Selle Anatomica and several more

The difficult thing is if it takes 1500 miles which saddle do you start with. I'm guessing the one most comfortable. Of the four that I have access to, I'm going to stick with the Selle Italian Gel Flow. It is the thinest and smallest of the lot but feels great on the road. I just have to change how I ride on the trainer and get some miles under my butt.
Thanks
Allan


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