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  1. #1
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    Lemond Titanium... Clyde Perspective?

    Hey all,

    I'm going to take a look at this Lemond/Trek Ti later today. I can walk away, don't have to buy today. From the C&V Appraisal guys' take so far, the price is good. But they mention us Clydes tend to find Titanium too whippy.

    Here's the thread, and the ad on Craigslist.

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by warrennnnnnnnnn; 01-08-14 at 01:12 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Senior Member delcrossv's Avatar
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    Depends on the bike. Did you test ride it? Usually with a triangulated frame like that it's not a problem unless you're a really big guy.
    Lightning P-38 / M5 M-Racer/Ryan Vanguard

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    I'm going to ride it later today. Will report back! If it feels good, and the joints aren't cracked or coming apart, and the components are what he says they are (105 FD and brakes/levers, Ultegra RD, Bontrager Fork), I imagine I'd be quite happy with it. But resale value might be lower with the Trek decals. I'm not even sure if I can really tell Titanium from Aluminum.

  4. #4
    Senior Member jeneralist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrennnnnnnnnn View Post
    Hey all,

    I'm going to take a look at this Lemond/Trek Ti later today. I can walk away, don't have to buy today. From the C&V Appraisal guys' take so far, the price is good. But they mention us Clydes tend to find Titanium too whippy.

    After I got my titanium bike (on top), my non-clyde hubby got his own (below). Both are used; mine is recent vintage, the lower one is from the 1980s.


    I love my Ti bike. I don't find it to be overly flexy/whippy. It gives a great feel, evening out the bumps in the road. I'm comparing against a 2000s aluminum Cannondale city bike with a suspension fork, and a 1980s Trek steel tourer. My Ti replaced the tourer.

    But my darling is having problems with the flexibility of his bike: it flexes enough under his weight that in certain gears at certain times, pedals/gears rub in unwanted ways. He's got a problem downshifting that he can't replicate when the bike is on the stand; I can *see* parts move closer to each other when he sits on the bike. And he's under 180 lbs.

    My advice would be to see if you can get a test ride.
    Last edited by PhotoJoe; 01-08-14 at 02:20 PM. Reason: Fixed quote code
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeneralist View Post
    I love my Ti bike. I don't find it to be overly flexy/whippy. It gives a great feel, evening out the bumps in the road. I'm comparing against a 2000s aluminum Cannondale city bike with a suspension fork, and a 1980s Trek steel tourer. My Ti replaced the tourer.

    But my darling is having problems with the flexibility of his bike: it flexes enough under his weight that in certain gears at certain times, pedals/gears rub in unwanted ways. He's got a problem downshifting that he can't replicate when the bike is on the stand; I can *see* parts move closer to each other when he sits on the bike. And he's under 180 lbs.

    My advice would be to see if you can get a test ride.
    Hm, that's interesting. You would think that a lighter rider would experience less flex. Perhaps it comes down to factors like tubing dimensions/butting/joints/cranks, and weight only amplifies what's already there in terms of flex.

  6. #6
    Senior Member jeneralist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrennnnnnnnnn View Post
    Hm, that's interesting. You would think that a lighter rider would experience less flex. Perhaps it comes down to factors like tubing dimensions/butting/joints/cranks, and weight only amplifies what's already there in terms of flex.
    Exactly. Just knowing that a bike is made of titanium might not be enough to know how whippy it is.
    - Jeneralist

  7. #7
    Just Plain Slow PhotoJoe's Avatar
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    @TrojanHorse says his old Ti frame is a wet noodle. I am aware of no flex issues on my Lynskey, but then again, I don't put down nearly the power that he does!
    If at first you don't succeed, Skydiving is not the sport for you!

  8. #8
    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    I have an old Merlin Road from the late 80s, maybe 90 or 91 but it's old... the tubing is pretty smallish and the BB area is definitely smaller than what we're used to today (it's even smaller than the traditional english BB).

    I'm not riding it anymore and my modern carbon bike is dramatically stiffer where it counts.

    NEW titanium bikes addressed a lot of those flex issues. I'd get significant chain rub every time I stomped on the pedals hard (so standing, hammering up a hill, etc). You probably wouldn't have those issues with a bike from 2000 or later. I can't promise that's when the bike designs got stiffer, so I second the "test ride" recommendation.

  9. #9
    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhotoJoe View Post
    @TrojanHorse says his old Ti frame is a wet noodle. I am aware of no flex issues on my Lynskey, but then again, I don't put down nearly the power that he does!
    Beat to the punch!

    You don't put down any power, lately.

  10. #10
    got the climbing bug jsigone's Avatar
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    Assuming your taller then 6ft, I'd fit it, ride it, do some cornering and sprints to see how it handles. Bring some multitools with you, don't count on the seller having them.

    If it doesn't fit like a glove or flex, this one is a good deal if you like colors
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/4269574277.html

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    To my fellow Clydes and Athenas, I test rode it and really enjoyed it. I posted a follow up with pics over here at the appraisals forum. Any additional insight would be much appreciated!

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    got the climbing bug jsigone's Avatar
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    IMO Ti frames are the ONLY modern frames that do not use a removable Rear D hanger. Lead me to think it's really Ti, it has the right colors and details.

    sounds like you should up your budget and get that bike See where he will come down in prices

  13. #13
    Klaatu..Verata..Necktie? genejockey's Avatar
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    Not enough information about the rider to know. What is stiff enough for a 210#6 footer could be a noodle under a 300# 6'6" Clyde.

    But if you rode it, and REALLY stomped it a couple times, and you like it, go for it. My test would have been climbing a steep pitch in the lowest gear, stand up and go really hard and see if the chain rubs the front derailleur cage. That, and descending a steep pitch and seeing if it wobbles or feels stable.
    "Don’t take life so serious—it ain’t nohow permanent."

  14. #14
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    It sounds like you like it enough and it's a decent price for the bike, so buy it and enjoy it.

    It looked like that was a normal threaded English BB? As long as you can upgrade the crank some day (if you want to) I'd say go for it.

    Ovalizing the tubing was probably an effort to get more stiffness in the BB area, which used to be a notable area of weakness for Ti bikes. An 8 speed drive train is probably just find but the rear triangle width is the same as current 11-speed drivetrains so you're good to go there too.

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    I'm 300 lbs. Unfortunately the guy lived near no hills, so the best I could do on a short trip after sundown was mash out of the saddle from a stop in the middle chainring.

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    got the climbing bug jsigone's Avatar
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    if you find it noodley after you get it, I can safely assume you will get what you paid for it if you put it back on to CL. Just avoid doing major upgrades if you have to split off into the route. But as is I'd get, clip in pedals, new bar tape, new tubes, maybe tires after closer inspection is all that really needed to get it rolling. I'd also clean the crap off that chain, rear D cogs and cassette and apply new lube. You can fine tune the "fit" with stem and seatpost offsets later.

  17. #17
    Me and the cat... Pamestique's Avatar
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    Is this a full Ti bike or one of the carbon Ti hybrids that Trek started making when it purchassed the Lemond brand? If one of the older full Ti bikes it should be good for you to ride. I have a 2002 Zurich (full steel) which I still ride and loe with no problem.

    If it is the Ti Carbon hybrid then I would think twice... but if the price is right; buy it ride and if it breaks, get a new bike...

    NOTE: I CHECKED THE AD... if this is a rare Lemond Ti why does it have a Trek sticker on it??? The Older Lemonds were Lemonds, not Treks (when Trek bought the company they changed the bikes out to Chinese carbon/metal hybrids)... do some research... as I recall the Victoire, when a Lemond, was sold with Dura Ace components not 105 - if the components are 105, bike is way overpriced... what year is the bike?
    Last edited by Pamestique; 01-09-14 at 12:42 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsigone View Post
    if you find it noodley after you get it, I can safely assume you will get what you paid for it if you put it back on to CL. Just avoid doing major upgrades if you have to split off into the route. But as is I'd get, clip in pedals, new bar tape, new tubes, maybe tires after closer inspection is all that really needed to get it rolling. I'd also clean the crap off that chain, rear D cogs and cassette and apply new lube. You can fine tune the "fit" with stem and seatpost offsets later.
    You're probably right about the resale value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamestique View Post
    Is this a full Ti bike or one of the carbon Ti hybrids that Trek started making when it purchassed the Lemond brand? If one of the older full Ti bikes it should be good for you to ride. I have a 2002 Zurich (full steel) which I still ride and loe with no problem.

    If it is the Ti Carbon hybrid then I would think twice... but if the price is right; buy it ride and if it breaks, get a new bike...

    NOTE: I CHECKED THE AD... if this is a rare Lemond Ti why does it have a Trek sticker on it??? The Older Lemonds were Lemonds, not Treks (when Trek bought the company they changed the bikes out to Chinese carbon/metal hybrids)... do some research... as I recall the Victoire, when a Lemond, was sold with Dura Ace components not 105 - if the components are 105, bike is way overpriced... what year is the bike?
    It is a Lemond, as my investigation has shown in the other post. "LeMond" is stamped into the dropouts. It does not have a Ti "spine" with Carbon mix as was offered later on, as you astutely pointed out. The story from the seller and a few other people who have come upon these frames online is that these were never built up by Trek, rather sold as framesets only, and built up by the consumer. They had run out of Lemond decals and badges for some reason, possibly due to the fallout between Trek and Lemond. The closest I could find are the Lemond Victoire series from 2001 and 2002. I am hoping Trek will be able to provide some more info.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Homeyba's Avatar
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    That is a Lemond frame but it is not "classic". There are some funky things with that add. First, I know of no TI frames that are brazed you won't get bronze or silver filler to stick to titanium, period. Ti can be brazed, but only in a very controlled vacuum oven with very expensive (palladium based) filler. Ovens like that cost way too much for a bike company to own, and companies that do own them charge thousands of dollars just to fire them up and run a cycle. At the end of the Trek/Lemond relationship Trek was practically giving away Lemond stuff just to get rid of it. It's very likely that they threw Trek stickers on some Lemond frames and sold them. I seriously doubt that Mr. Sandvik had anything to do with that frame as he was involved with Lemond in the early years.

    Irregardless of all the nonsense in the add, Trek/Lemond frames are very good quality and you shouldn't have a problem with it as long as it's sound. $850 is probably in the ballpark for that bike. It's not a great deal but you wouldn't be getting ripped off either. Btw, I don't think you'll have a problem with it flexing either, or being whippy.


    Edit, I found a brazed TI frame, it was made by Moroni and billed as the only one in existence. That was a while back so maybe there are some more out there...
    Last edited by Homeyba; 01-09-14 at 02:53 PM.
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  20. #20
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    I think the designation "classic" meant traditional geometry, due to sloping top tubes becoming the norm for the later Lemond bikes. There were sloping Victoire models, hence, "Victoire Classic."

    So you're saying the chances of this being brazed are virtually nil. Does that mean this was TIG welded or what? If this deal is not as great as it would seem, what about the other Lemond full Ti ads I've found asking higher amounts for frame only?
    Last edited by warrennnnnnnnnn; 01-09-14 at 03:50 PM.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Homeyba's Avatar
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    Sorry when I said it wasn't a "classic" I wasn't talking about models or geometry, I was talking about classic in the sense of a Shelby Mustang being a classic. Yes it was definitely TIG welded. If you've been spending a lot of time looking and comparing then you probably have a better idea of the current market for TI frames. For that bike maybe it's a fine deal? It certainly isn't a bad one.
    It doesn't get harder, you just go slower.

  22. #22
    got the climbing bug jsigone's Avatar
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    I'm thinking that when you say YES in your head, the bike will already be gone.....that's just how craigslist works

  23. #23
    got the climbing bug jsigone's Avatar
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    if worried about the name, build something like this up over some time
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/LITESPEED-TI...item2ecd52a85d

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Litespeed-Tu...item27dcdc2055

  24. #24
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    Anyone know who did the welding of the Trek/Lemond frames? I wouldn't be surprised if Trek didn't contract the work to one of the very well known Ti frame shops. But, they had plenty of experienced metal craftsmen in house. They could have done them internally.
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  25. #25
    Senior Member Homeyba's Avatar
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    My understanding is that they had a shop within their larger factory where they built the Lemond frames.
    It doesn't get harder, you just go slower.

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