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  1. #176
    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderMonkey View Post
    I eye the strava segments around me. They are somewhat anti-downhill as I think they don't want people getting reckless and hurting themselves. I do see downhills included in segments so I don't know the exact methods they use to allow something or not.
    Speaking of segments, this is what we have to deal with out here in California:

    Strava Segment | Beach to Newland Sprint

    I'm 1067 / 6412

    ONE THOUSAND! And that was an average speed of 24.3 mph for not quite a half mile. The people on top of that list covered it at over 40 mph, which is probably believable with even a semi-decent tail wind.

    6412 people have ridden that segment. Good grief.

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Null66 View Post
    Well, made most if not all the first timer mistakes.

    Only one wrong turn, did rt, instead of left. Three bonus miles with something like 4 hills!

    Made the route!
    Not the last control. Missed it by an hour.

    I'm more then happy.
    Quite sore.

    Water consumption, 105 ounce camel back, a 24 ounce bottle. 7 liters purchased on the road...

    Will finish write up later, might be much later...
    Congratulations. I guarantee you will make the time on your next 200k. Just the learning from this one alone.

  3. #178
    Senior Member Ursa Minor's Avatar
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    yippee! congrats!

    Charlie
    Grimly determined to have fun.

  4. #179
    Senior Member WonderMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
    Speaking of segments, this is what we have to deal with out here in California:

    Strava Segment | Beach to Newland Sprint

    I'm 1067 / 6412

    ONE THOUSAND! And that was an average speed of 24.3 mph for not quite a half mile. The people on top of that list covered it at over 40 mph, which is probably believable with even a semi-decent tail wind.

    6412 people have ridden that segment. Good grief.
    Wow. With that many people there are bound to be many that are elite. Even MORE elite than you!
    http://www.280dude.com/
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  5. #180
    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderMonkey View Post
    Wow. With that many people there are bound to be many that are elite. Even MORE elite than you!
    I'm decidedly average... you know sometimes you look at strava and you think "I bet I could do that if I really tried" and then there's that whole different strata of "nope, not happening". Usually on hills but frequently on flat roads too.

  6. #181
    Senior Member downtube42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
    Speaking of segments, this is what we have to deal with out here in California:

    Strava Segment | Beach to Newland Sprint

    I'm 1067 / 6412

    ONE THOUSAND! And that was an average speed of 24.3 mph for not quite a half mile. The people on top of that list covered it at over 40 mph, which is probably believable with even a semi-decent tail wind.

    6412 people have ridden that segment. Good grief.
    I'm 3rd overall in my best segment... out of 9 who have ridden the segment. And I'm 3rd with 20.4 MPH.

    California this is not.
    What is bicycle touring?
    "So I kept looking and eventually found that a spark plug had same threads. So I cycled next two days until I got to Jackson, MS with a spark plug instead of right pedal." - mev

  7. #182
    Senior Member antimonysarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Null66 View Post
    Well, made most if not all the first timer mistakes.

    Only one wrong turn, did rt, instead of left. Three bonus miles with something like 4 hills!

    Made the route!
    Not the last control. Missed it by an hour.

    I'm more then happy.
    Quite sore.

    Water consumption, 105 ounce camel back, a 24 ounce bottle. 7 liters purchased on the road...

    Will finish write up later, might be much later...
    Congratulations! The speed will come, and experience will make you quicker at all the things that aren't pure strength (getting through controls, navigating, etc).

  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
    Speaking of segments, this is what we have to deal with out here in California:

    Strava Segment | Beach to Newland Sprint

    I'm 1067 / 6412

    ONE THOUSAND! And that was an average speed of 24.3 mph for not quite a half mile. The people on top of that list covered it at over 40 mph, which is probably believable with even a semi-decent tail wind.

    6412 people have ridden that segment. Good grief.
    Half mile bike ride? What is that a drag strip? Is it like Pomona with timeslips and all?

  9. #184
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Null66 View Post
    Well, made most if not all the first timer mistakes.

    Only one wrong turn, did rt, instead of left. Three bonus miles with something like 4 hills!

    Made the route!
    Not the last control. Missed it by an hour.

    I'm more then happy.
    Quite sore.

    Water consumption, 105 ounce camel back, a 24 ounce bottle. 7 liters purchased on the road...

    Will finish write up later, might be much later...
    Good effort! That's a long way to go, and even if you missed the last control time you still covered a much further ride than most people will ever do, even if you restrict "most people" to "most people who cycle".

    Sore is to be expected as well... give yourself a few days to recover and then you can be back on the bike!
    "For a list of ways technology has failed to improve quality of life, press three"

  10. #185
    Senior Member WonderMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Null66 View Post
    Well, made most if not all the first timer mistakes.

    Only one wrong turn, did rt, instead of left. Three bonus miles with something like 4 hills!

    Made the route!
    Not the last control. Missed it by an hour.

    I'm more then happy.
    Quite sore.

    Water consumption, 105 ounce camel back, a 24 ounce bottle. 7 liters purchased on the road...

    Will finish write up later, might be much later...
    Nice! Can't wait to read the write up.

    I'll sit here and hit refresh over and over until it is up.
    http://www.280dude.com/
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  11. #186
    SuperGimp TrojanHorse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherby View Post
    Half mile bike ride? What is that a drag strip? Is it like Pomona with timeslips and all?
    Not a half mile bike ride, it's a half mile segment in the middle of whatever other bike ride you're doing. And usually a prevailing tail wind.

  12. #187
    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Null66 View Post
    Well, made most if not all the first timer mistakes.

    Only one wrong turn, did rt, instead of left. Three bonus miles with something like 4 hills!

    Made the route!
    Not the last control. Missed it by an hour.

    I'm more then happy.
    Quite sore.

    Water consumption, 105 ounce camel back, a 24 ounce bottle. 7 liters purchased on the road...

    Will finish write up later, might be much later...
    Making the distance is great, gives you bragging rights regardless of whether you hit the time.

    What you do now is just go ride the heck out of that bicycle for the next year or so.

    On your ride, check your average speed, figure your total stopped time, and you can get an idea of where the time went. If you spent a lot of time at controls, you can potentially speed the ride up without riding any faster. If you spent a lot of time cranking up hills in the lowest gear, work on hill climbing, but also keep your eyes open for flatter routes that may be available.

    On an average 200k, I might take 10 hours to do it and average 15 mph rolling average. So 125/15 = 8.33 hours, which means I spent 1.67 hours diddling away the time at controls. Which is all well and good, except it also means, I could possibly shave an hour off my time on that factor alone.

    It's okay to ride a brevet slowly, but if you can do it faster, it gives you more flexibility- you have more choices of who to ride with, and your off-bike time can be a little more leisurely.
    "be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."

  13. #188
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    Write up will be a while.
    Sorry guys.
    Family medical emergency struck. Brother in law in hospital, I'm on parenting duty...

    No bragging rights until it's not DNF!
    I'll try same route later when it's held again.

    The route was great! Well, except for the hills. The people are marvelous, helpful, gentle with much needed advice.

  14. #189
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    lessons learned.


    Start prep sooner.
    less frequent intervals, better too few then too many.

    Have higher average speed before attempting.
    Work on keeping a consistent speed


    Actual checklist.
    Do not get distracted the night before. Family medical emergency was impending and that threw me off my stride.


    Lighter pack.
    eat bananas first as they are heavy, same with apples.
    Drink more water when water is first acquired.
    patch kits, not tubes.
    removing kickstand hurt as much as helped.


    Don't start so fast... I kept up with a few guys longer then I should.
    Fine tune fit weeks before. Stem broke and had to replace. didn't get angle quite right.


    Energy conservation cheats were quite effective.




    Learn how to use Garmin.
    Learn to lock in the reception from my devices.This was the first time I was near enough garmin and ANT+ devices for it to overwhelm the auto discover.
    Learn to use courses.
    Set a page to display time.

  15. #190
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Null66 View Post
    Learn how to use Garmin.
    Learn to lock in the reception from my devices.This was the first time I was near enough garmin and ANT+ devices for it to overwhelm the auto discover.
    Learn to use courses.
    Set a page to display time.
    When I'm riding a brevet I set one of my data fields to be "overall average speed". It has to stay over 15kph. The higher above 15kph the number goes, the more time I have in hand. If it gets close to 15kph I know I need to put a bit of pressure on. If it drops below 15kph (it never has for me, so far) I know that I need to get through controls as fast as humanly possible and raise the pace.

    I periodically think about a custom app for this sort of thing, but then get to wondering just how much time and effort it's worth spending on somethng that would just give me a couple of extra data fields.
    "For a list of ways technology has failed to improve quality of life, press three"

  16. #191
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    Contango

    I used 9.6 mph as target speed. The slowest "lap", a five mile segment on the garmin, is 10.3. So I didn't make the controls due to non moving time. Frankly, I think I needed the rest, meaning without the rest I wouldn't have the average speed.

    Amounting to better conditioning allowing cutting the rest stops down.

  17. #192
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Null66 View Post
    Contango

    I used 9.6 mph as target speed. The slowest "lap", a five mile segment on the garmin, is 10.3. So I didn't make the controls due to non moving time. Frankly, I think I needed the rest, meaning without the rest I wouldn't have the average speed.

    Amounting to better conditioning allowing cutting the rest stops down.
    Sure, and when you can see the specific areas that need improvement you can focus on those.

    If you can reduce the time at controls you can still rest but maybe not as much. You can also "rest" on the move - if you come up against a particularly nasty hill and you're starting to sag, don't battle up the hill on the bike, just get off and push. While you're pushing take the chance to take on some food and water. On a big hill it's entirely possible you can walk up it as fast as you'd cycle up it, you'll work your legs less, and you'll get to the top freshly watered rather than very hot and tired and wanting a rest.

    The other thing to remember is that even though you missed the control cutoff you've still cycled a distance that would just boggle most peoples' minds. It's no small achievement to cover that distance in a day, regardless of whether you got to the end before the control closed.
    "For a list of ways technology has failed to improve quality of life, press three"

  18. #193
    Senior Member skiffrun's Avatar
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    I was made aware of this thread this evening. I am very sure that the OP on this thread is the person to whom I sent an encouraging email which I copied into the Long Distance Forum (Encouragement Email to a Newbie Rando After They DNF'd Their First Brevet) -- fyi, and I suppose this might be name-dropping, MikeD referenced in that post is the current RUSA prez.

    Some comments about the course:
    • it was the Morrisville 200,
    • which is rollers-rollers-rollers,
    • which is no where near the mtns in the western part of NC,
    • but the roads are essentially some asphalt on grass (i.e., almost no "engineering," meaning the slope changes almost constantly,
    • other than the start/finish, the only controls are at the "50-mile" mark, the half-way point, and the "75-mile" mark (the "mile-marks" are bit off this year because there was a detour to get around a bridge under re-construction),
    • this was the 16th year Alan (the RBA) has used this course,
    • it is also the first and last 100-kms of his 300 & 400 routes,
    • so locals know the route better than the back of their hand,
    • we know when to hammer a climb because a good recovery section follows immediately,
    • the slow climbers among us (including me) know when to back off the effort and spin,
    • and almost all of us end up with some pretty fast times,
    • esp. if the prevailing wind on the day is from the west.
    • Almost none of the locals bother to check their cue sheets,
    • many of us don't even carry it with us,
    • because we know the course.
    • course map (R - NCBC Morrisville 200k (2014 version) - A bike ride in Morrisville, NC) -- if you go to the Raleigh Region website, don't trust the Trimble map on the cover/home page, instead click the link for the 200 course, and look at the link to the RWGPS map there.


    Some comments on MikeB ("Null66"):
    • I thought he had too much gear with him,
    • but he had a good attitude before the event.
    • AND he dang well better show up at some Perm-Pops, Perms, and another 200 brevet!
    • Because he has the attitude to succeed.


    An unimportant comment: I think I used to qualify as a Clyde, and if I don't reduce my food intake and/or increase my cycling mileage, I may qualify again in a few months.

    Good luck, MikeB, aka, Null66 !
    Enjoy the ride.

  19. #194
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    Took a sanity day, needed a long ride.

    Figured I'd do an easy century. But... The easy route has almost no food sources near it, so carry your own. And only 2 places for water, though well placed.

    So instead went for a exploratory route, figured a good time to add new territory...

    Well, it was a great day, but there are a lot of missing signs on the green way and weird ways they connect. Spent a lot of time lost and such.

    Distance: 100.87 mi
    Time: 8:46:11
    Avg Speed: 11.5 mph
    Elevation Gain: 4,259 ft
    Calories: 6,465 C
    Avg Temperature: 84.9 F
    Details
    Timing
    Time: 8:46:11
    Moving Time: 8:40:52
    Elapsed Time: 12:27:09
    Avg Speed: 11.5 mph
    Avg Moving Speed: 11.6 mph
    Max Speed: 33.6 mph
    SpeedPace
    Elevation
    Elevation Gain: 4,259 ft
    Elevation Loss: 4,167 ft
    Min Elevation: 194 ft
    Max Elevation: 486 ft
    Cadence
    Avg Bike Cadence: 73 rpm
    Max Bike Cadence: 111 rpm
    Temperature
    Avg Temperature: 84.9 F
    Min Temperature: 73.4 F
    Max Temperature: 104.0 F

    I have quit 2 of 3 BP meds doctor had me. Well, I realized at mile 93, I felt better then just starting my commute 2 weeks ago...

  20. #195
    2 Fat 2 Furious contango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Null66 View Post
    Took a sanity day, needed a long ride.

    Figured I'd do an easy century. But... The easy route has almost no food sources near it, so carry your own. And only 2 places for water, though well placed.

    So instead went for a exploratory route, figured a good time to add new territory...

    Well, it was a great day, but there are a lot of missing signs on the green way and weird ways they connect. Spent a lot of time lost and such.

    Distance: 100.87 mi
    Time: 8:46:11
    Avg Speed: 11.5 mph
    Elevation Gain: 4,259 ft
    Calories: 6,465 C
    Avg Temperature: 84.9 F
    Details
    Timing
    Time: 8:46:11
    Moving Time: 8:40:52
    Elapsed Time: 12:27:09
    Avg Speed: 11.5 mph
    Avg Moving Speed: 11.6 mph
    Max Speed: 33.6 mph
    SpeedPace
    Elevation
    Elevation Gain: 4,259 ft
    Elevation Loss: 4,167 ft
    Min Elevation: 194 ft
    Max Elevation: 486 ft
    Cadence
    Avg Bike Cadence: 73 rpm
    Max Bike Cadence: 111 rpm
    Temperature
    Avg Temperature: 84.9 F
    Min Temperature: 73.4 F
    Max Temperature: 104.0 F

    I have quit 2 of 3 BP meds doctor had me. Well, I realized at mile 93, I felt better then just starting my commute 2 weeks ago...
    Not sure what happened to your average speeds there, 100 miles in 8:40 moving time gives a moving average of about 11.5, but 100 miles in 12:30 total time gives an overall average of more like 8mph.

    Quibbles over computer figures aside, good effort! I always like seeing the odometer need to use a third digit

  21. #196
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by contango View Post
    Not sure what happened to your average speeds there, 100 miles in 8:40 moving time gives a moving average of about 11.5, but 100 miles in 12:30 total time gives an overall average of more like 8mph.

    Quibbles over computer figures aside, good effort! I always like seeing the odometer need to use a third digit
    It's a Garmin 500. Left the auto cutoff as defaults. I hear people hack the auto cutoff to improve their average speed... The only things gonna improve my average is more and more miles, and maybe a map...

    Sometimes, I forget to turn it off during longer stops like lunches.

    It was a long day, mostly marvelous...

    I got lost, a lot. Didn't really care I was always within 40 miles of home if I took main roads. I also had several hours worth of lights, only used maybe an hour and 1/2...

    I tried to find 2 lakes:
    Lake Raleigh and Reedy Creek Lake
    Fumbling around NC state campus.
    Asked people for directions, but I can't remember sequences...

    A mile or so of freshly graded dirt road. It washes out pretty bad when it rains but had to stay in tire track and even then sunk in a good bit. A grader stopped and he slid the blade over to let me pass. Sure appreciated my fatties on the soft stuff, but it was slow going. Hate to think what the later rain did to it when it was that soft. Looks like they were prepping it for paving. Didn't see a roller though.

    Several mis-directs in the city markers missing in several places. A number of places the path just ends at a road and you got find the next part of the trail down a road or offset a good ways. I guess you're just supposed to know where it is.

    Got lost again in the rain, at least I ended up where I started... Chanced it and walked the bike over a rough spot couple hundred yards. Google maps showed the path finished, but well what path there was people made by walking it. Oh well...

    So yeah,lots and lots of lost time.
    I can't figure the computer weirdness, other then the display read 11.5 as average speed at the end of the ride. If I had money on it I may try to figure it's algorithms but ridings for fun. I get enough of logic puzzles at work.

    Laps are a bit funny too:
    1 25:16.8 5.00 11.9
    2 23:29.3 5.00 12.8
    3 20:09.5 5.00 14.9
    4 25:34.1 5.00 11.7
    5 28:01.4 5.00 10.7
    6 26:47.4 5.00 11.2
    7 16:40.3 2.42 8.7
    8 28:45.0 5.00 10.4
    9 29:56.4 5.00 10.0
    10 26:14.1 5.00 11.4
    11 26:32.0 5.00 11.3
    12 29:25.5 5.00 10.2
    13 26:06.7 5.00 11.5
    14 21:24.4 5.00 14.0
    15 22:36.8 5.00 13.3
    16 23:01.6 5.00 13.0
    17 25:15.0 5.00 11.9
    18 29:08.9 5.00 10.3
    19 22:39.4 5.00 13.2
    20 28:45.1 5.00 10.4
    21 20:20.9 3.45 10.2

    I messed up the definition for lap 7 as 5 miles a while ago, haven't bothered resetting it to 5 miles. I think laps would mean more if I could add a column for climb.

  22. #197
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    Hit the elevation correction button on Garmin site and it reduced the climb number from 4265 to 3087.... GO figure.

    Just looked at strava 3645... oh well...

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