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Thread: Ketosis

  1. #51
    Commuter & cyclotourist brianogilvie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenA View Post
    You know that constant gnawing, and the feeling impotence you get when you can't turn down another bowl of pasta, after you've already had a bowl of ice cream....and the ensuing depression that comes with failure after failure to pull yourself together.
    No, actually, I don't. I have lost 45 lbs. over the last year eating a diet of about 50% carbs, 20% protein, and 30% fat. After about 3 weeks of unpleasant hunger pangs, I found it easy to turn down another bowl of pasta. Or to have one slice of buttered toast for breakfast, rather than two.

    I certainly wouldn't insist that your low-carb diet didn't work for you - obviously it did. But my experience is that a higher-carb diet can work equally well for me. Given that much of the European population in the early modern period got the majority of its calories from bread, and obesity was scarcely a problem, it seems clear that the modern obesogenic diet has far less to do with the source of calories than with their abundance.
    Public accountability: my Beeminder weight loss graph.

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    Senior Member eriku16's Avatar
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    Well I'm HCLF and I was a clyde at 225 lbs, lost 60 lbs. I eat very little processed foods (over thirty years now). LCHF or HCLF??? Tell me which one as a cyclist, a serious cyclist or one hoping to compete, would you rather be? Give you a hint, who are you going to find in a A-group ride or getting a podium in race? Or joe average, in an all out sprint against the local, junkyard dog? Is it the one who eat Wheaties... or the one spooning down a can of lard?

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    can of lard

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    the long term effect of engaging in any diet is..........death

  5. #55
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianogilvie View Post
    No, actually, I don't. I have lost 45 lbs. over the last year eating a diet of about 50% carbs, 20% protein, and 30% fat. After about 3 weeks of unpleasant hunger pangs, I found it easy to turn down another bowl of pasta. Or to have one slice of buttered toast for breakfast, rather than two.

    I certainly wouldn't insist that your low-carb diet didn't work for you - obviously it did. But my experience is that a higher-carb diet can work equally well for me. Given that much of the European population in the early modern period got the majority of its calories from bread, and obesity was scarcely a problem, it seems clear that the modern obesogenic diet has far less to do with the source of calories than with their abundance.
    You reduced your carbs and increased your dietary fat and lost weight... this would indicate that you were able to utilize fat as fuel (this is ketosis) and that you experienced what many do in that you had less food cravings.

    Higher carb and lower carb both work as long as you eliminate all those modern foods that appear to contribute to poor health... as far as bread goes we don't eat it (celiac disease) and my grandmother would have told you that eating too much bread will make you fat and damn did she make good bread.

    But most of us no longer engage in the same level of back breaking labour as our ancestors did.

    Bottom line is that if weight loss is a goal you have to take the sugar out of your diet and really look at the carb intake for as long as you keeping running on hi test fuel (carbs) you cannot tap into the reserve tank which is fat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    Bottom line is that if weight loss is a goal you have to take the sugar out of your diet and really look at the carb intake for as long as you keeping running on hi test fuel (carbs) you cannot tap into the reserve tank which is fat.
    Unfortunately, you're mistaken. I eat carbs, including sugar, all the time and I've still managed to burn off quite a bit of fat! How is this miracle possible?!? Exercise! I realize it's not as trendy as a kooky diet, but it is amazingly effective in my experience...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    Unfortunately, you're mistaken. I eat carbs, including sugar, all the time and I've still managed to burn off quite a bit of fat! How is this miracle possible?!? Exercise! I realize it's not as trendy as a kooky diet, but it is amazingly effective in my experience...
    Why don't you start you own thread to talk about your experiences and stop pestering us who are interested in discussing our way of eating with others who might be interested.

    It's really quite tedious and unproductive to have to put up with you and others who feel the need to turn every topic into a confrontation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenA View Post
    It's really quite tedious and unproductive to have to put up with you and others who feel the need to turn every topic into a confrontation.
    You clearly intended this thread to be confrontational from your first post. Don't start crying now that you're reaping what you've sown...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    You clearly intended this thread to be confrontational from your first post. Don't start crying now that you're reaping what you've sown...

    I believe you're confusing confrontational with unconventional.

    See past the donut..........

  10. #60
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    Unfortunately, you're mistaken. I eat carbs, including sugar, all the time and I've still managed to burn off quite a bit of fat! How is this miracle possible?!? Exercise! I realize it's not as trendy as a kooky diet, but it is amazingly effective in my experience...
    It is because you have managed to engage that ketonic process after you depleted your glycogen and burned fat... exercise has this effect although it is not as effective as dietary changes.

    If you fuel your body with carbs and sugar and never allow your body to enter that state, the extra fat will go nowhere.

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    "When I previously thought about ketones, my mind went to ketoacidosis and uncontrolled diabetes. How about ketones in the urine? Diabetes would have been the correct answer if we were taking a test. So, I was basically conditioned to think of ketones as being mostly bad.
    Health care practitioners are not typically trained to embrace ketosis as a desirable state; we are trained to the think of the extreme – the extreme case. We got this in biochemistry classes and the clinical classes back in the 1980s, and this continues today. This view of ketones needs to change."
    -
    David Seaman, DC, MS, DABCN

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    You should check out the book "the new Atkins for a new you" or "the art and science of living low carb". I'm not good at info regurgitation so I referenced 2 great books on the subject. Anyway you are absolutely wrong and your doctor has given you bad info. I have lived for 2 years in a ketogenic state, lost 85lbs thus far and my blood work is above normal. HDL 80-mid 90's, LDL- 70's, Trigs-70's. Kidney function high with low creatine. Anyway, open you'd mind and check out those books, you may find something you like!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenA View Post
    "When I previously thought about ketones, my mind went to ketoacidosis and uncontrolled diabetes. How about ketones in the urine? Diabetes would have been the correct answer if we were taking a test. So, I was basically conditioned to think of ketones as being mostly bad.
    Health care practitioners are not typically trained to embrace ketosis as a desirable state; we are trained to the think of the extreme – the extreme case. We got this in biochemistry classes and the clinical classes back in the 1980s, and this continues today. This view of ketones needs to change."
    -
    David Seaman, DC, MS, DABCN
    Ketones are great to have flowing in your blood, in fact it is the only fuel your brain functions on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrigleycub View Post
    Ketones are great to have flowing in your blood, in fact it is the only fuel your brain functions on.
    I'm sorry, but this is simply incorrect. To quote Wikipedia:

    The brain typically gets most of its energy from oxygen-dependent metabolism of glucose (i.e., blood sugar), but ketones provide a major alternative source, together with contributions from medium chain fatty acids (octanoic and heptanoic acids), lactate, acetate, and possibly amino acids.
    Coincidentally, the ketones used to fuel the brain are also sugars (cf. ketoses). I'm sure any Type 1 diabetic on the forum would be happy to describe what happens to the brain when blood glucose levels fall too low...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    I'm sorry, but this is simply incorrect. To quote Wikipedia:



    Coincidentally, the ketones used to fuel the brain are also sugars (cf. ketoses). I'm sure any Type 1 diabetic on the forum would be happy to describe what happens to the brain when blood glucose levels fall too low...
    Thank you for schooling me Sensei. Prior to your response to mine, I thought I might know you. Now I'm certain. Thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenA View Post
    Why don't you start you own thread to talk about your experiences and stop pestering us who are interested in discussing our way of eating with others who might be interested.
    I think you are confusing discussion forums for echo chambers.

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    Senior Member iamtim's Avatar
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    Studies have scientifically shown that 100% of people who eat food will die.

    For the last six months I've been following a low-carb, high-fat, ketogenic diet. Before I switched, I did my homework; I found that most of the negative criticism actually centers around low-carb, high-protein diets, which can cause all the problems people have mentioned in this thread. I've dropped over 25 pounds, I feel great, and I have energy to spare. There's been no bad breath and a recent battery of blood tests returned absolutely no abnormalities. I plan to have similar tests every year, if not more frequently, to keep an eye on my kidneys... although I'm fairly confident based on my studies that those issues are more for those following LCHP, not LCHF diets.

    I thought cycling would be a problem without all the carb-loading, but that just hasn't been the case. So, you know, there's that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    Recognize that we simply continue to subscribe to well conducted, peer reviewed, accepted and published studies with regard to what constitutes a healthy and sustainable diet.

    See the problem is you're asking for science when dealing with someone's food religion. Never a good idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kc0bbq View Post
    I think you are confusing discussion forums for echo chambers.
    Huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamtim View Post
    Studies have scientifically shown that 100% of people who eat food will die.

    For the last six months I've been following a low-carb, high-fat, ketogenic diet. Before I switched, I did my homework; I found that most of the negative criticism actually centers around low-carb, high-protein diets, which can cause all the problems people have mentioned in this thread. I've dropped over 25 pounds, I feel great, and I have energy to spare. There's been no bad breath and a recent battery of blood tests returned absolutely no abnormalities. I plan to have similar tests every year, if not more frequently, to keep an eye on my kidneys... although I'm fairly confident based on my studies that those issues are more for those following LCHP, not LCHF diets.

    I thought cycling would be a problem without all the carb-loading, but that just hasn't been the case. So, you know, there's that.
    Thanks for posting that. Hopefully your success will encourage other to try this way of eating.

  21. #71
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamtim View Post
    Studies have scientifically shown that 100% of people who eat food will die.

    For the last six months I've been following a low-carb, high-fat, ketogenic diet. Before I switched, I did my homework; I found that most of the negative criticism actually centers around low-carb, high-protein diets, which can cause all the problems people have mentioned in this thread. I've dropped over 25 pounds, I feel great, and I have energy to spare. There's been no bad breath and a recent battery of blood tests returned absolutely no abnormalities. I plan to have similar tests every year, if not more frequently, to keep an eye on my kidneys... although I'm fairly confident based on my studies that those issues are more for those following LCHP, not LCHF diets.

    I thought cycling would be a problem without all the carb-loading, but that just hasn't been the case. So, you know, there's that.
    The famous Arctic explorer Stephansson lived with the Inuit for nearly a decade and for most of that period lived as they did, eating a diet that was almost berfect of any carbohydrates and his health was excellent.

    After this he agreed to do a medical study and at first they used a low carb high protein diet that he did not do well on until he had them replace the lean meats with more fats as he was used to eating... it was reported that during his time with the Inuit his weight stabilized, his hair thickened, his chronic gingivitis vanished, and he reported that his stamina was incredible.

    He underwent this study for a year and no ill health effects were noted.

    Many paleo adherents are under the notion that our ancestors preferred lean meat and it is believed that Neanderthals were almost entirely carnivorous but to thrive on such a diet, fats are essential.

    Some opposing researchers will state that life expectancy was very low but when you rule out child mortality and diseases for which there were no treatments, our primitive ancestors lived almost as long as we do now... the average lifespan for Americans was only 45 at the turn of the last century but the rule has been that once you make it to adulthood your odds of living into your seventies is quite good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    The famous Arctic explorer Stephansson lived with the Inuit for nearly a decade and for most of that period lived as they did, eating a diet that was almost berfect of any carbohydrates and his health was excellent.

    After this he agreed to do a medical study and at first they used a low carb high protein diet that he did not do well on until he had them replace the lean meats with more fats as he was used to eating... it was reported that during his time with the Inuit his weight stabilized, his hair thickened, his chronic gingivitis vanished, and he reported that his stamina was incredible.

    He underwent this study for a year and no ill health effects were noted.
    'Adventures in Diet' by Vilhjalmur Stefansson was the most convincing historical piece I that have read about HFLC. It really was responsible for jump starting me into this way of eating..... 2 years ago yesterday :-)

    Folks will often ask why this diet....the answer is simple....I failed at all the other ones I tried

    http://www.drbass.com/stefansson2.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
    Remember: the original post in this thread didn't say anything about ketogenic diets. It just said the OP was in ketosis. Ketosis happens in response to any low-carb diet. Yes: because the OP didn't say which type of low-carb diet he was on, I assumed it was likely the ever-popular Atkins diet. Now that we know the OP is on a high-fat diet we can start worrying about the potential for coronary disease, kidney stones, liver damage and kidney damage.

    So far, I haven't been able to find any long-term studies that show this type of diet is healthy and two years on a diet isn't proof that it will have no long-term side-effects...
    The Framingham study showed no correlation between coronary artery disease and fat or cholesterol levels. None.

    Isn't it remarkable that all these decades of emphasizing carbohydate consumption all the while diabetes and coronary artery disease has continued to soar for those on a SAD diet? Inuits never had these self inflicted maladies.

    For fats, I mostly use Ghee, cocount oil, fish oils, Hemp oil, and extra virgin olive oil. Meat is only from local grass fed animals or wild game that I harvested myself. Eggs are from local chickens that have not been fed grain.

    Atkins is not what the OP was talking about from what I read of his posts. Alkins had you not eating any carbs and it was not really sustainable as most understood his plan. Most Paleos will consume 50-100 grams of carbs per day from vegetables and obtain most of their energy from ketones.

    Search Mark's daily apple.....if anyone is interested.

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    I've lost 28 pounds since the first of the year loosely following a Paleo diet and Dr. Jack Kruse's blog and books. Another 30 pounds is all I have to go. July 14 is my goal.

    It will interesting to see how much better results I will get from my labs at the yearly physical in June.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenA View Post
    'Adventures in Diet' by Vilhjalmur Stefansson was the most convincing historical piece I that have read about HFLC. It really was responsible for jump starting me into this way of eating..... 2 years ago yesterday :-)

    Folks will often ask why this diet....the answer is simple....I failed at all the other ones I tried

    http://www.drbass.com/stefansson2.html
    Len, it has been about 2 months for me.

    Have you noticed that you have no food cravings or that you really do not need to eat because your energy level is so....level?

    What do you eat on the bike during long rides (200k+)?

    Has your fat burning capacity increased during the past 2 years?

    I'd be really interested in your on-bike foods and how long of rides that you do. Thanks.

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